Once GA Tech was out, my family started sending updates on schools we applied to. 
1 Like
NEW TOPIC!!!
looking at nazareth bfa in my. open to anyoneâs opinions!! what do you think about this option in general? pros cons whatever
Re Nazareth BFA, itâs helpful to know all the alternatives when discussing options.
Hello! Proud alumni of the Thurgood Marshall School of Law at Texas Southern here! We are celebrating beating the spread and only losing by 16 points to the #1 team! 
#whendavidmeetsgoliath
5 Likes
Hereâs some other perspective from someone from San Diego: My D has worked with this group. She attended a workshop with one of the UMich faculty her junior year they hosted, it was a great experience. I canât speak to the price of the whole senior year program, but I can tell you - I know the 3 performers accepted are very VERY talented. I donât think itâs reflection of the performers- these students are talented enough to do well anywhere.
As someone who holds a BFA, I just want to lay down some perspective.
I attended a BFA program for Photography and Design. I know itâs not performing arts, but the chances of becoming a successful support-your-life photographer is about equivalent to working successfully in performing arts, and becoming a top photographer is the same as getting a lead on Broadway. When applying to programs as a high schooler, I was award winning, already published, blah blah. Everyone told me I had 3 choices: Brooks, Parsons, or Pratt. I didnât pick any. In fact, my college choice wasnât even on the radar for âtop design schoolsâ. The one I chose allowed me to graduate almost debt free, taught me incredible techniques and stuck their neck out to land me incredible internships with some of the top photographers in the world. The education gave me enough knowledge base to support myself and family for over 20 years, put a husband completely through law school (almost debt free)and I have never had a problem working. Of course I had to hustle and get in the door when I first started, but Iâve had a 20 year career and I now teach more than I shoot and that is by choice. Brooks is now out of business and my alma mater is still pumping out incredible talent. In my graduating class at least half run successful studios in NYC, LA, Chicago, Salt Lake, Taiwan⊠âTopâ school really doesnât mean much unless youâre only in it for a connection, and that fizzles probably 2 years after youâre out of school. A friend of mine attended Pratt at the same time I was going - he now sells cars, life is life. No one cared my degree wasnât from âthe big 3â they cared if I could do the work.
Which leads to a quick point on BFA vs BA. In my experience the BFA is heavy technique driven, but not technique/talent exclusive. In my 20 years of working, exactly 2 jobs cared that I had a BFA - again itâs about the work and your reputation to get the work done. In fact, many that chose the BA over BFA in my program are just as successful. One, in fact, specifically dropped BFA so she could have time to double major in marketing. She now runs the largest photo studio house in her city and about 1/2 of the BFA program graduates now work for her. BA means less technique but not cut off from it entirely.
I think we get worried for our students, we want them to be successful and we want the âleg up.â Hereâs the thing, it wonât replace working for it, and it wonât replace finding a way to successfully support yourself AND do what you love LONG TERM. Remember students read these too, donât feed into the notion that only the top will equate success,
TL,DR: UMich, BW, any top school is great, doesnât mean itâs the only way to be great. Coaching is great, it will not equate to you sustaining passion and career 20 years from now. Find a place you/your student feels excited to be- top or not, bfa or ba, if they want it, theyâll bloom.
Now on to March Madness!!!
13 Likes
nazareth bfa mt, northern colorado, arcadia, muhlenberg, desales (all mt) and wagner vocal performance with minor in theater are all the options!! two more to hear fromâŠuab and syracuse
4 Likes
college confidential does get a bad rap- I found it very helpful- thus why I stick around . to pay it forward.
@singoutlouise my daughter did not get into UM, but I found your journey and your advice during ours very helpful- so I hope you wont let todayâs discussion & the frustration impact your decision to stay or goâŠtoo many others that were long standing contributors left bc the format is difficult now, or their kid is done and theyâve had enough or whateverâŠ
FWIW, my D did use MTCA, they go out of their way to say they will not influence the colleges. they say its bc they have over 400 kids and advocating for one would be unfair to the others⊠true that doesnât consider the kids with no coaching at all, but thats what they told me
My D did a master class with Mark Madama from Michigan- did not pass prescreenâŠmy D did a master class w Robin Lewis @Rider - did not pass prescreen. My daughter did the summer program at CMU- passed pre screen but did not get in
She got into BW, she got into OCU,She got into BSU, she got into Belmont, Catholic & a few othersâŠI have no idea why she got into some of these great programs & not others, I do realize we had resources that others do not- I just tried to do what I could to help my kid,I didnât want any favoritism or a varsity blues scandalâŠthough I wonder if given the chance to buy my way into these programs during the height of this insane brutal process what I would do?? as a side note she did a summer master class week where she opted not to apply to several very prestigious programs bc she didnât vibe with the program head, so I felt that was a benefit ( & became even more valuable when class of '24 couldnât visit any schools due to the pandemic)
Interesting tidbit maybe somewhat relatedâŠSports illustrated once anonymously polled olympic athletes and asked them if you could take a pill that would guarantee you a gold medal, no one would ever find out but you would suddenly and painlessly die 2 years later what would you do- over 70% said they would take the pillâŠWHY? because they have worked so hard for something as their sole goal for yearsâŠIm not sure my point there & certainly doesnt make cheating right but having a coach for sports, voice or SAT is NOT cheating, just saying people want this so bad they will do almost anythingâŠ& us parents, we do these crazy things out of love for our kids ( go read my final decision thread about why I stalked teenage girls facebook pages- I feel like a creep in hindsight LOL)âŠdoesnât make it right, the world is very unfairâŠ@singoutlouise- thanks for all your contributions. you and others helped me & without CC ( which many bad mouth-sound familiar?) I would have been far worse off.
#soyouaresayingtheresachance 
7 Likes
@NYYFanNowMTdad Ha, I was thinking of paging you earlier because this yearâs MT dads started talking sports, and that happens here almost every year. Sound familiar? But you chimed in on the other topic, LOL!
People analyze this stuff to death. Realistically, the odds are low and life is not entirely fair.
I was thinking more about this brouhaha over the fact that three kids who worked with one coaching team got accepted to the same college MT program, a quite competitive one. When I think about it, this is not that unusual! If you look at the admissions results in a given year that some coaching teams like College Audition Coach and MTCA post, inevitably, they tend to have 2 or more clients who were admitted or are attending particular colleges (ie. 3 clients attending Pace or 3 clients attending CCM). A lot of students going into this field have some sort of coaching, but not necessarily with these coaching groups (could just be a local teacher, for example). But some very talented kids may flock to these coaching groups, as well as the coaching is likely quite good, and it is not far fetched that a few students are accepted to the same program, be it CCM, UMich, B-W, BOCO, whatever. This is not all that new. Same could be said for kids from a particular performing arts high school. It happens.
And one could say this about elite college admissions. There are a plethora of students from renown private prep schools who get in every year to top colleges, and their parents paid lots of money to send them to these private prep schools. When my D went to an Ivy League college, I remember moving her into her dorm room freshman year. Her roomie had attended a well regarded private prep school that is fairly small and she said 8 students from her senior class were entering this Ivy along with her. My daughter, from a rural public school was the only kid in her senior class to attend ANY Ivy.
So, again, I say follow your dreams. Do YOU. Donât worry what others are doing. If you are driven to succeed, you typically will succeed. I also know some who graduated from UMIch and CMUâs programs with a BFA in MT who are not even in MT today. And I also know some who are very successful who came from these programs. Likewise, I know some who went to less known MT programs who are highly successful. It has more to do with who you are and what you do, than where you went.
5 Likes
Iâm not trying to dodge your question, but I do feel that this is a situation where a comparison of curricula could be particularly beneficial because I think youâll find that there will be a fair amount of variation among at least half of your options (in terms of coursework and required / optional components). If you cut this list in half, then sitting in in a virtual class or two and talking to current students at the short-listed schools could be particularly beneficial to determine where more fit is felt. Just my two cents on how I would go about it.
Muhlenberg is the only one I know of well; itâs got a deserved, great reputation but itâs also a different type of offering so you just need to ensure itâs something theyâre excited about (and no reason they shouldnât be given that an effort was made to apply there).
1 Like
An addendum to my last postâŠ
So there is this uproar and some âletterâ going about town that 3 kids who worked with Trifecta coaching team got into UMichigan BFA in MT. What is so different than for example, last yearâs students who did coaching with MTCA:
7 seniors went to CCMâs BFA in MT
7 seniors went to UMichiganâs BFA in MT
4 seniors went to Baldwin-Wallace BM in MT
12 seniors went to BOCO BFA in MT
For College Audition CoachâŠexamples from last yearâs class:
6 seniors went to Pace (either MT or Acting)
7 seniors went to Penn State BFA in MT
12 seniors went to Texas State (either MT or Acting)
6 seniors went to Florida State
6 seniors went to BOCO (BFA MT)
11 seniors went to Baldwin-Wallace (BM MT or Acting)
(this doesnât even count where they were all admitted and just where they enrolled)
So, why the big to-do over this CA coaching team? Nothing new here. And look at some well regarded performing high schools and where their graduates landed. Same thing. But ya know what? Lots and lots of others kids got accepted at well regarded MT Programs who did not attend a performing arts high school or use one of these coaches. My own kid is one of MANY where this is the case. If my kid were going through this again today, I would not do things differently or worry about this or that perceived advantage of others.
7 Likes
@Twelfthmanâs idea is what we are(ok, I am) doing right now. I made spreadsheet sheets (my specialty, thanks to the MT college audition process, ha!) of each school, and it was really eye opening where they were different and the same.
I also added in how many credits the major was, how many credits of core classes students needed to take, and how many elective credits were left after those two.
I was surprised at how different each school was after doing this; it was the first direct comparison of curriculum and made me realize how some of the schools were really comparing apples and oranges - not better/worse, but very different approaches. Interesting to note varying amounts of practical vs theory classes between schools.
Because you have Muhlenberg on your list, I will say that it was the hardest one to put onto my spreadsheet, which really emphasized how much it is a âbuild your own curriculumâ program, which, depending on your student, can be a plus or minus.
Good luck in your decision making!
1 Like
Informative.
I sure wish I would have known this and I am glad that is it coming out. I can pass on to folks who may not be aware and who may be able to afford these coaches. I never knew about this process and I appreciate that this information has come out so that I can pass along the process. Thanks again for posting.
Thank you for the statement regarding âgossipâ
1 Like
Hello everyone! I had a quick question regarding The New School - does anybody have a rough idea as to how large their BFA Acting program is? I canât seem to find any info on this and am curious to know.
Any BTDT folks Muhlenberg families?
Not getting into the fray of San Diego, UM, etc. Will share this for those that believe itâs about talent and hard work regardless of where you go.
When we were at Unifieds in NY a yr ago, we had the opportunity to see a show starring a friend of my wife. (Wife actually babysat for her many yrs ago). It was a small off Broadway production (but literally in Time Square so very cool). This woman is very talented and has had a long working career on Broadway, regional theater, cruises, etc. Actually had a one person show for a while. Very talented. She attended (didnât graduate) UCLA for two yrs and then started her career never looking back. She visited with us afterwards and basically told D three things:
- Doesnât matter where or if you get your degree (BFA / BA / No A all the same - itâs about talent)
- If you want to work, go where the work is. Itâs a nomadic life. A few lucky ones get to stay on Broadway a long time but most who you would consider amazingly successful travel the world working (not a lot of people are willing to do that).
- Itâs a small world and youâll run into the same people at auditions and on shows all the time.
This woman is either side of 50. She can still bring it. Her belt and dance kicks are still awesome.
As others have said, donât be consumed with what programs took who. They didnât make the performer. I think itâs quite the other way around. That uber talented performer added tot he reputation of the program but they were going to make it either way.
Do the work. Grind it out. Make a career for yourself. Hopefully youâll get some breaks along the way. Lot of happy character actors and MT swings making a living doing what they love. Thatâs far more realistic.
17 Likes
My D got into The New School of drama EA. It was one of the few schools we got to see before everything closed. I remember it felt small, but I will ask her when she gets up if she remembers exact numbers. I wish the FA package made it a more viable option for her, it seemed like a really cool program.
1 Like
My D is a Junior, so we are a year behind you guys. This has been her plan since she was 9 years old. Thankfully, we have older cousins who went through the process and Iâm a researcher. Sheâs an academic kid as well. Everyone is asking her about college these days. Her answer is âI donât know where I will goâ and the question always come âbut where do you WANT to goâ and her answer is âWhere ever I get inâ Heck, she has already had the gap year discussion with me, in case she comes up with zero offers.
Now, of course, I canât know if that REALLY is her attitude deep down. But Iâve (and summer intensive instructors) have been telling her this story for as long as she can remember. We are also people of faith - so there is a bit of trust the higher power in the thinking as well. I think she really knows that all she can control is doing her best. And the rest is opinions and circumstances and types and and and and. It is art. It is subjective. Sheâs gotten feedback from adjudicators where 2 gave her a perfect score and praised something specific in her performance and the 3rd specifically called that thing out for being all wrong.
I incorrectly assumed people knew this process was like this - certainly people in the MT world. But I recently have a conversation with a good friend who has a 10th grader and they had âdecidedâ she would go to CCM to study MT. We are going to have coffee soon.
I appreciate the thoughtful discussions. I appreciate you guys sharing your journey. I feel at home among other parents who are very involved in helping our kids follow their passions.
4 Likes
I can attest that a good number of kids have no clue. We are in a small town with a regional theater. There are the kids who get cast in every production with dreams of being on Broadway. When my sons first summer program was boco, not one of his friends knew about summer programs or what Boco was. We knew from his private voice coach. The next year as he continued to attend some prestigious summer programs, they were asking how he found them. I spoke to the people who own the theater and asked if they would share even basic college info with these kids. My sons high school drama teacher knew nothing of the process. She told him to apply early action to the schools he wanted and then select theater as his major when he gets accepted 
. We have supplied a manual of sorts to the guidance department of his school. Due to the nature of auditioning there were a lot of missed days and unhappy teachers even though he was salutatorian at our school and did his school work from planes and hotels and never missed an assignment. If kids in areas without thriving theater donât know how it all works, who tells them? My son has made it his business to make sure all those theater kids he performed with get their prescreens in on time, make a realistic college list etc. My wife talks to moms to try to get them to rethink their idea of top schools. Theater is different! There is so much info and had my sons coach not been informed he never would have gotten on the path with summer programs where he learned just about everything about this process
5 Likes