The Cost of Private K-12 v. The Cost of College

Parents Forum
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<p>Our kids went to public schools k-12. Privates were not an option as all the money we could save was going into their college funds. We do have two separate college funds.
We saved enough to pay for instate publics for each kid. </p>

<p>S1 could have gone to a private sch. and prob. gotten a good merit offer (don't qualify for FA) but chose the big state u. on full schoalrship. His college savings are mostly still intact so he will get that money upon graduation. </p>

<p>S2, not as good a student as S1, would possibly have been better off at a small private but the savings wouldn't cover that and DH was totally against S2 taking loans ( as we are not convinced that he will finish college) that would put him deep in debt with no real means of repaying. S2 did not put forth max. effort in h.s. so we did not think it necessary for us to go deep in debt for something he did not want very badly. A state u. was basically his goal anyway since that is where most fr. here end up. </p>

<p>S2 got in a branch state u. and is a freshman there now. After first sem., he is on Academic probation. We are very glad we didn't spend half of his college savings on one semester at a private sch. We don't think it would have made a diff. academically since he slept thru lots of classes first sem. and would have done that anywhere. He is doing better this semester but the jury is still out on whether he will stick with it.
If S2 stays at state u. and graduates, he will have no money left in the bank but he will not be in debt either. </p>

<p>Everyone's situation is different...even within their own household.</p>

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<p>Bostongal,
That is exactly the school I am talking about. From your perspective as a student, I would be very interested in any thoughts/ideas you have to facilitate my D application process. I just can't imagine this not being a great school for my D. </p>

<p>We are already in the paying for private school mode, and paid mucho money for S to attend on of the ISL's in middle school. As I mentioned in a previous post S is now at a much less expensive HS (not because of money but because of fit) and we feel blessed to have gotten a few years reprieve from high tuition cost. If D got accepted at this school I will do what I have to pay the bill without cutting into what S will need to go to college. </p>

<p>Congratulations on your ED to Brown!</p>

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<p>"My impression talking to parents is that their bright kids in private schools lose out to even brighter kids in the struggle to get a limited number of Ivy acceptance."</p>

<p>I'm sure that this happens, but the opposite happens too. If you stick a kid who is bright in a school that doesn't challenge him/her even at the highest level, you're going to miss out on a lot of the things they could potentially learn/do. I'm still a little bitter about where I went to high school (not at my parents, just in general) because I was really blind to the college admissions game. I had been told by my parents and teachers and administrators that all I had to do was just take the hardest courses and I'd be set (what they really meant was: into our flagship state school, because who would want to go anywhere else?). I was discouraged from taking courses outside of the school (for instance at local colleges) and the one time I did I found that the course I took was even less challenging than those at high school. </p>

<p>So, for 3 years of my high school education I thought I was at the top of the game and was doing everything I could. I didn't even KNOW about the science olympiads, siemens, intel, etc. I graduated with a perfect GPA, perfect SAT scores, all 5s on AP exams... but it wasn't enough. Our highest AP courses were Calculus AB and Physics B (or at least the highest I had access to). I came to a very scary awakening at what the top end of students look like when I was applying to colleges at the beginning of my senior year and came onto this website. </p>

<p>Out of my four top-choice schools I was rejected at 3 and waitlisted at one (woo, I got in!). I ended up at my top-choice out of all of them, so it's fine, but I still feel very strongly that my high school record did not reflect my potential, and things could have turned out worse than they were.</p>

<p>Edit: In comparison, it's pretty standard for my friends at Caltech to have had math past Calc BC and at least physics C. Many of them had already taken quantum mechanics and multivariable calculus (some even differential equations) before coming here. It's made a very big difference in how hard I have to work for my classes.</p>

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<p>5 kiddos, all about a year apart. Went to parochial initially on scholarship and multiple sib discount. The four oldest were identified as GT and the youngest specific learning disabilities. School was different in that all classes were still taught by nuns rather than lay and they provided a very nurturing environment when the kiddos really needed it.</p>

<p>But after time they advised a move to a more academic setting private or public. So on that advice I searched for a good district with a strong GT program and strong resource with the hopes of again finding a more nurturing environment. We had to move 2-2.5 hours away and rented a very small apt/condo (really, really small) in a more rural setting (college town) with a great public school district, no buses though. Kiddos went to different schools for a while (how they break up the gifted self-contained classes) and then ended up at the same high school. There are no private schools in the area. Youngest received excellent resource/special ed his entire time there (no retention, eventually brought to grade level in all subjects.)</p>

<p>I knew we would struggle with tuition even at the in-state publics and again started to search for something more affordable without giving up quality. So we moved again, this time 3000 miles away. Oldest graduated before we moved but the others were all still in high school. Not an easy move but one we all decided together.</p>

<p>When they were little I was responsible for the decision to change our direction and locale but I was very open with them with why I was doing it. Their education and the decisions surrounding it were something I shared with them from an early age. The academics, ECs, athletics and financials became increasingly more their decisions than mine.</p>

<p>They had to own and contribute to their futures. If they choose a cheaper bottom-line option then it was their future not mine that would be without less debt. If they choose a less rigorous course of study whether high school or college then they would need to pick up the slack to remain more competitive and they would the ones ultimately who bore the natural consequences. They knew very early on just how hard life could be without a solid early education and what opportunities college could bring. </p>

<p>They lived with the hardship every day.</p>

<p>And they all ended up with choices that had been put into motion early on. One graduated from an in-state public with a degree necessary for the same school's vet program, another is at an OOS public on full academic scholarship while participating in her NCAA sport graduating this year with high honors and completing a honors thesis, another is at an ivy (he had the joy of getting to pick from many wonderful opportunities) and another at a service academy (his dream come true!).</p>

<p>So our need to move so they would all have fantastic in-state options wasn't needed, YET.</p>

<p>They all did/will graduate with no student loans and have been provided with work study that all fit into the realm of lab work and research. Looks good on their resumes!</p>

<p>They are looking at the many, many in-state options they have for graduate school (medical and dental) with some of the lowest, if not the lowest in-state grad school tuitions and they ever-expanding growing need for physicians and dentists in our area.</p>

<p>When we arrived they were enrolled in one of 17 high schools in our district which USED to have the worst reputation ie, worst SATs, worst state test scores, worst grad rates/drop out numbers, violence on campus. But they knew better than most that the only way to affect change is to get in and do something about it, every single day.</p>

<p>Well between the 5 of them they managed to do so. School spirit, a desire for excellence in the classroom, on the field and in the community can be contagious. Middle daughter and son made the newspapers and local tv for athletics and academics often enough that their peers at school noticed. And that is when things started to change. The school is no longer the red-headed stepchild of the district. Son's graduating year their high school alone had more in scholarship money than the other 16 combined. They were no longer last. For anything. </p>

<p>And again contagious. Son started a peer tutoring program run 2x a day for science and math and upon request foreign languages. He is still in contact with those that he left to run the program in his absence. A small ROTC program is now huge and other son is on the hook for visits each leave period from the academy. Daughter's insistence on Latin and Greek has taken hold and they now have one of the largest and active Latin programs. The classes went to Rome last year and plan to go again this year. </p>

<p>Son used his early acceptance to MIT as a catalyst for his wrestling team to do more and reach higher especially in math and science (a sport not necessarily known for maintaining the highest GPAs!).</p>

<p>I knew their foundation of academic skills and love of learning was established early by a set of very nurturing teachers. All the rest was up to them.</p>

<p>The gifted programs fed their hunger for more information but by high school they needed the other component. They needed strong character, a desire to serve and the opportunity to make a difference. So yes they took their honors and AP and even college courses but that was not what was most important.</p>

<p>It was the ability to realize that being a part of something bigger than yourself would truly determine your future. They live and breathe "to whom much is given, much is expected."</p>

<p>So, no private middle/high school and their college choices, private vs. public, big/small, LAC/huge OOS public, a military career were ones they drove. They knew very early there was no college fund, it was up to them. Still is.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>These questions and issues are what middle/uppermiddle income families face. When you don't have the money, you don't have the choices, so there is no need to even discuss these issues. Your kid either has something to get him into a private school or college for free or very little, or he finds something he can afford, or does not go. The wealthy families can pay for anything their kids are admitted. The vast majority of us have to juggle this situation along with our other expenses and priorities. No fun.</p>

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<p>This is one of those areas where life decisions come squarely into play. </p>

<p>There may be more educational options, the fewer kids you have.</p>

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<p>"Take away the top ten percent of any private high school graduating class and the list of colleges is generally not real impressive."</p>

<p>D graduated # 1 from her private schools and nobody would be impressed with her choice. It means nothing, everybody have their reasons, hers was not to impress others by no means. yes, usually #1 and #2 go to Ivy and such, but so what?</p>

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<p>We pay the equivalent of a couple private school tuitions in property tax every year and my kids attend a very good suburban public. I don't factor that into the college decision. Whether my kids attend private school, expensive public school or something else, I still want value for my college dollar, and if I think my daughters can obtain an equivalent education at a less expensive school, they're going to have to convince me that the more expensive alternative is worth it.</p>

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<p>There are lots of crummy and average private schools.</p>

<p>At top private schools, however, 80% of the class goes to top 30 schools. Maybe more.</p>

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<p>Often the choice isn't between paying nothing (for public colleges) and $50,000 (for private colleges), but paying $20,000 (for public) and $35,000-$40,000 (for private colleges w/some small scholarships.) If that's the case, you are looking at a difference of $60,000 + or so over the four years... That's about the cost of 3 years of pricey k-12 education.
My kids did both turn down "free", but we were extremely satisfied with the financial aid for the private U, and we didn't spend any money for k-12.</p>

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<p>Every family has different circumstances and criteria which determine how much they can and are willing to pay for education, and how to measure the value of said education. For us, with only one child, in a family that highly values education over most other things in life, even though we are middle income, we opted for (mid-range priced) private K-12. We think so far we have gotten our money's worth: (1) she seems to be happy and thriving; (2) in private elementary she got all of the "extras" (music, art, drama, foreign language, daily P.E.) taken out of the public schools here in CA; (3) public schools in our district have minimal programs for gifted kids and we got some "custom" acceleration for her in private that we would probably not have gotten in public; and (4) for the peace of mind of knowing she was safe and cared for in wrap-around day care, the money has been worth it. Our choice for private HS was along similar lines: the private HS has many more opportunities for gifted students, and there are no gun-carrying students, probation officers, or metal detectors to worry about. (The best public HS in our district had a murder out front of the school about 5 years ago, and 2 incidents last year where guns were discharged on/near school property. If you had the money, what would you do?)
Decision about how much money to spend on college will be hard, because we're not able to pay anywhere near full sticker price at many schools. We are probably going to make the decision that we can "stretch" to a certain point, if she chooses a school that seems to be a good fit, both academically and socially, but we don't want her to be saddled with debt in that choice. I want D to have a college experience of learning with peers who are as intellectually hungry and motivated as she is. Finding the most intellectually stimulating environment for the buck will be the trick - the cheaper, the better, for us, but not at the expense of her having a quality experience.</p>

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<p>This is a common topic of discussion where I work. Our local public schools took a sharp turn for the worse due to a major demographic change to the point that safety in schools is now an issue. Some parents switched to private schools at quite a financial cost to their families. Some moved to cities with much better schools, again at a financial cost. Some homeschool, again at the cost of a parent staying home. What I've seen is that families have to work this out and there are a variety of options but they all have their costs.</p>

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<p>"Often the choice isn't between paying nothing (for public colleges) and $50,000 (for private colleges), but paying $20,000 (for public) and $35,000-$40,000 (for private colleges w/some small scholarships.)"</p>

<p>I agrree that decision is private for each family. However, just would like to point out that we discovered that good number (most?) kids in D's Honors at college are valedictorians from Private schools. There are a lot of Merit $$ and other benefits available for only Honors students. It is different from school to school, D's Honors program has 200 spots (comparately small number) for incoming freshmen. </p>

<p>And it is completely not true that 80 % of top private HS go to top 30 colleges. D did not even apply to any top colleges, we went after Merit $$ and very selective programs and state schools, prestige was not the goal. She might apply to very top Med. schools though, but it will be determined in a year or so, to early to say.</p>

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<p>re: 80% of top private HS go to top 30 colleges ^^ -- perhaps not 30, but the top 50 certainly. You can assume that what hmom counts as the top private HS are the handful of nationally known day schools and the ten or so top boarding schools. By the way those schools cost around 32-37K for day and around 45K for boarding, with majority of day kids being there from kindergarden.</p>

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<p>D went to Country Day School which is K - 12, she just started there at HS. Before HS, she was at even smaller private school, she had only 4 kids in her 8th grade. That JH prepared her very well and she got merit scholarship at HS. We were told that both schools were charging lower than cost because of large private funding. She is a sophomere in college and have observed that her school regular classes prepared her much better for college that other kids AP's. Apparently, that was recognized by Chem. prof who hired her as Assistant, position she did not seek, but rather was offered. She loves that job. She did not have AP Chem in HS. This is just one example. The are plenty others, like getting much higher score in college Spanish Placement test than was available on chart which enabled D to take 3rd year of Spanish in college and be done with it. Again, no AP Spanish in HS. </p>

<p>I am not trying to brag, I am pointing out that Private HS (at least non-religious Country Day School - type that my D went to), prepare for college very well. Colleges that these kids apply depend on their goals and personal circumstances, though, with 100% of them attending 4 years colleges.</p>

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<p>I don't think the choice of going private for k-12 should just be based on better opportunity to get into top tier colleges. Most kids at our private schools are legacies at some top tier colleges already, and if they have gone to public schools their chance of getting into those colleges would still have been the same. Private schools are also not good for kids with any sort of learning disability. They do not get fundings for special ed, and often have no ability to deal to special needs. That being said, I believe the quality of education our Ds have received from their private schools has been better than even the best public school in our state. </p>

<p>The school teaches time management from grade 5. They are constantly reminded it is not possible to do everything to pefection if they want to get all of their work done. All of those kids have heavy commitment outside of school - sports, music, dance, volunteer work...They are taught to do what's necessary(not more) to achieve their goals. They are taught to keep calendar of their assignments and how to work ahead to accomendate all of those ECs. Time management is one area many students struggle with in college.</p>

<p>Writing is a big part of curriculum. They have writing assignments in English, history, science...almost in every single class. Because there are fewer kids in each class, teachers are able to return papers with corrections in matter of days, not weeks. Our D1 was able to spend minimal time on her freshman writing seminar last year when her classmates were spending hours in writing.</p>

<p>Small classes and more personal attention is what you get in private schools. It's hard to hide or not to participate when there are only 10 kids in a class. Students are encouraged to go to office hours to seek extra help, and no question is too stupid. As a young woman, our D1 benefited greatly from personal attention in math and science. When she entered college, she was very confident in her ability to compete with the boys in her class.</p>

<p>It was a big financial decision to put our kids in a private school, especially when we have good public. But I think sometimes k-12 education is even more important than college education. To get into a good college is just the gravy, not the ultimate reason for going to private.</p>

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<p>We did a small private Jewish school for preschool (~$5k/year, also had after-school care) and stayed through 2nd grade for S1, K for S2. At that point we headed into the public system, and both kids began at public highly gifted magnet programs beginning in 4th grade, where they have spent the rest of their K-12 careers. We could not have bought a better education for the guys. We looked at Big Coin privates and they told us they could not accommodate S1's academic needs -- in fact, they wanted him to repeat a year due to his late birthday.</p>

<p>The programs involved a long commute and a big family sacrifice, but it was something we were all willing to do. Both guys have been very happy with how things have played out.</p>

<p>Financially, if we had done the Big Coin privates, the guys would be taking merit money at the flagship. With the specialized programs, we feel like we got the best of both worlds.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
But I think sometimes k-12 education is even more important than college education. To get into a good college is just the gravy, not the ultimate reason for going to private.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree wholeheartedly. </p>

<p>And, if your child is bored in public school, the ability to challenge that student in private school can make the difference in whether there are major behavioral problems. </p>

<p>I did experience a college counseling meeting at my S's private school where the critical and caustic statements of one dad made it really clear that he thought his tuition check for private 1-12 came with a guaranteed admission for his son at the university the dad wanted his son to attend. Those parents may not enjoy the private school experience as much as I did.</p>

<p>My S went LAC with merit money and has excelled. Time management, study skills and impulse control seem to be a winning combination from whatever sourse the student learns them.</p>

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<p>Oldfort, I agree totally with your post.
BTW it is true, that the top independent schools, do send a high number of their graduates to the top colleges.
I looked at last year college placement of a neighborhood independent HS. 10% of the kids went to Harvard, almost all of the others went to the other Ivy Schools. Except for about 5 who went to LACs and one who went to a state school. This is also a school with many legacies.</p>

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<p>The independent schools that I know do not tend to brag about getting their kids into selective colleges. They do get a lot of kids into top schools, but the admissions officers I know will caution any parents who say that is a reason for putting them into that particular high school, that this is not a good reason. Some kids will do better at other school in terms of admissions to a selective college. You just don't know at the onset how it will be. It is a gamble and an expensive one.</p>

<p>These top private schools will prepare your kids for college well. I cannot come up with a better route for a finer highschool academic education than such schools. But that may not be the best route for selective high school admissions, may not be the best match for your kid, may not be the best use of your money.</p>