<br>
<blockquote> <p>Everyone agrees there need to be more troops to fight this noble fight and the recruiting efforts aren't producing as many soldiers as are needed...</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>I don't know that "everyone" agrees with that. I don't even think the Secretary of Defense agrees with that.</p>
<p>My H works for the military as a civilian. YES....the sentiment around there is...more troops! The Sec of Defense may not agree...but his generals do. They see WAR as their duty..whether right or wrong. I have had many opportunities to talk to the TOP BRASS in the military. It is never their right to question authority and any war that they are in is justified. So, YES, they do want more military..and if they could get more ammunition and better defended HUMVEES they would opt for that too! So...while they encourage their own sons and daughters to join the military, at this point it really is a family thing for some of them, they would wholeheartedly support a draft! Many of the military saw the armed forces as a way to get out of whatever depressed environment they were in so that they could have a "protected" future. Uncle Sam pays for everything. It really is a whole different segment of society. It is amazing that if these military types had some other opportunity to be successful, like perhaps getting a scholarship to college through maybe sheer intelligence, they would not opt for this kind of lifestyle. But, instead, their only opportunity to attend college is through ROTC or WEST POINT where all their tuition is paid for. For my experience, there is a VAST intellectual difference between the current generals and every one else. The gap is so wide that at some point I was not even able to hold a civil conversation with any one less than a general. That was pretty frightening to me! Anyway, I am diverting somewhat...YES....our military does want a draft. If the SEC of STATE gets enough pressure from his constituents, there will be one I can assure you.</p>
<p>the only thing i have to say is go to this website...its addicting haha <a href="http://www.imgag.com/product/full/ap/3067907/graphic1.swf%5B/url%5D">http://www.imgag.com/product/full/ap/3067907/graphic1.swf</a></p>
<p>Although I personally feel that Bush was and is a complete bozo, I too believe its time for reconciliation. I can't believe that he got reelected,but I have accepted the fact. Time to move on folks</p>
<p>Sgiovinc1, you're right that the military wants more troops for continued operations. You're wrong, however, by saying that they all WANT a draft as a way to provide these troops. We are the most technologically advanced and highly trained military in the world; the ONLY thing that allows us to reap the benefits of this technology is the fact that we are a VOLUNTEER military. These are the people who willingly go into harms way to fight and defend our country, and these are the people who fill fight the best. A reluctant draftee who completely disagrees with the war (like in Vietnam) is less effective and will likely get his buddies killed. If you talk to officers or even the grunts who actually do the fighting, I am positive that most of them do not want the draft back.</p>
<p>The key to getting more soldiers is two fold. First, redeploy troops that are stationed in Europe to free up personel for the Middle East. These troops, originally stationed to oppose a Soviet invasion of Europe, no longer have a significant role there. As we speak, President Bush is already redeploying many of the troops in Europe back to the states to create more available troops for action in the middle east.Second, increasing pay, bonuses, and incentives does ALOT for recruitment purposes and especially Retainment.</p>
<p>And please remember that we are an All-volunteer force. While some may just join for college money, most join out of a sense of duty to serve our country. They do NOT see a draft as an effective way of fighting this war. It should only be used as a measure of LAST resort.</p>
<p>It is such a shame that we are even having this discussion. We shouldn't be in Iraq in the first place! IF we were so concerned about protecting the rights of citizens who have no comprehension of what a democracy is all about, where have we been in reference to SUDAN or any other African nation that has been subjected to genocidal policies? I think we are all being duped. This is a BUSH family war..and at the same time lining the pockets of Halliburton and its employees. If the people cannot see this for what it is, WOE IS AMERICA! My personal experience has been that every uneducated person that I have spoken to voted for BUSH and those with a social conscience who appeared to understand the long term effects of a government with a strict right-wing and aggressive foreign policy voted for KERRY. Makes me scared that there are more "stupid" people shaping our country's policiies than intelligent and educated ones! Let's see how BUSH selects the supreme court judges...that will surely be a grave indication of what is yet to come!</p>
<p>
[quote]
My personal experience has been that every uneducated person that I have spoken to voted for BUSH and those with a social conscience who appeared to understand the long term effects of a government with a strict right-wing and aggressive foreign policy voted for KERRY. Makes me scared that there are more "stupid" people shaping our country's policiies than intelligent and educated ones! Let's see how BUSH selects the supreme court judges...that will surely be a grave indication of what is yet to come!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>^^^^ truly arrogant. Quite amazing. Resorting to lame talking points. impressive.</p>
<p>I agree that the military does not see a draft as a fix
However after listening to interviews with the private security forces I am a little alarmed that they seem to be less trained but have more weaponry than some of our soldiers.
How can our soldiers be expected to go off in unprotected convoys? they are sitting ducks!
THe fact that we shouldn't be over there is now moot, we are over there, and for the long haul.
Soldiers have a right to know that they can count of having well trained prepared troops at their side, not those who were forced to be there.
However we do have troops around the world that can be mobilized to allow the ones who have been in Iraq to go home</p>
<p>You're comment that I am arrogant is truly amazing! I care about affordable health care for the elderly and indigent, for people's rights to have are retirement package if they have devoted their lifetimes to a large corporation, that our children will some day enjoy the benefits of social security as we have, that innocent young lives are not lost in Iraq over a frivolous war, that Canadian prescription drugs become available in this country so in the true spirit of capitalism we can keep the prices of prescription drugs manageable, that the Federal gov't allocate monies to the states so we can properly educate our children under Bush' "No Child Left Behind" Act, that we eliminate tax cuts for corporations who choose to "outsource" jobs so that we can provide our young people opportunities to work in this country.....I guess I am arrogant! I'm arrogant about making American a better place to live for all...not just a chosen few.</p>
<p>Oh, and make sure you take my statements out of context...so as to make me out to be an arrogant person without ever reading any of my previous comments and knowing where I stand on social issues. A person's beliefs are formulated by their experiences. I would not dare to call you arrogant. I would first attempt to understand your background and from where you gained your life experiences. It is the name-calling that is setting our country back light years! And one of the reasons that we will have a hard time mending the rift that has been created in America. What you consider arrogance, I consider my right to express what I have observed. I would offer you the same right.</p>
<p>Read. I said your COMMENT about the stupidity of the military and Bush voters was arrogant.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I agree that the military does not see a draft as a fix
However after listening to interviews with the private security forces I am a little alarmed that they seem to be less trained but have more weaponry than some of our soldiers.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Emeraldkity, Funny. Also, you seem to "assume" alot of things just by the way people speak. These private security forces, many of them who work for companies like Blackwater USA, are among the most highly trained and specialized men on the ground in Iraq. Many are former special forces or law enforcement officers who have moved into the private sector. They are highly trained and very highly skilled. So STOP making baseless judgements about what you think people can or can't do according to the "level of intelligence" that they "seem" to convey.</p>
<p>You have me sgiovinc1 confused with some one else. You're still making a value judgment on what someone's experiences have been...whether mine or anyone elses. You need to define who your enemy is and not be randomly hostile to those who don't agree with you.</p>
<p>NO, I'm talking to both you AND emeraldkity.</p>
<p>And, both of you need to stop assuming things because people "seem" stupider. YOU need to stop with the idea that the military is full of ignorants and generals who want the draft.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity, you need to stop with the assumptions that private security operatives are poorly trained and such.</p>
<p>That is all./</p>
<p>This is still the United States of America and I am entitled to my opinion and I don't have to STOP making assumptions just because you say so and you don't agree....unless as a BUSH fanatic you would want me to give that up my right to freedom of expression too.</p>
<p>"Emeraldkity, you need to stop with the assumptions that private security operatives are poorly trained and such".</p>
<p>I realize it is uncomfortable to hear, but this was from a report by a commander of private forces regarding several situations in which many thousands of rounds of ammo were expended but all if it was apparently "friendly" as no enemy force was involved.
Not only do they seem to be "Rambo" types but they defrauded the govt apparently.
"
WASHINGTON -- A company hired to provide security for U.S. officials and installations in Iraq defrauded the government out of millions of dollars by submitting phony or inflated bills, a lawsuit by two former employees said.</p>
<p>The federal lawsuit unsealed Friday said Custer Battles LLC billed the former Coalition Provisional Authority for equipment and services that didn't exist and inflated other charges. The improper charges, the lawsuit said, included billing for fake leases on up to eight forklifts swiped from Iraqi Airways.</p>
<p>The Air Force suspended Custer Battles on Sept. 30 from obtaining new contracts on the ground that it has reason to believe the company broke federal contracting rules.</p>
<p>Custer Battles spokeswoman Jennifer Martin did not return repeated messages seeking comment Friday.</p>
<p>Lawyers for the two men suing Custer Battles said the firm's fraudulent charges amounted to $50 million. Federal law allows fines against companies that defraud the government in an amount equal to three times the fraudulent proceeds.</p>
<p>The Pentagon, Justice Department and other federal agencies are investigating several cases of alleged fraud among contractors in Iraq. Internal watchdogs at the Pentagon and authority have said U.S. contracting officials did not follow proper procedures on many of those contracts.</p>
<p>The former employees, Robert Isakson and William Baldwin, sued under a federal law that allows citizens to sue on behalf of the government when they suspect fraud in federal contracting. Should they win, those who bring the lawsuit can get up to 30 percent of the money recovered from the contractor.</p>
<p>Lawyers for the former Custer Battles workers said the Bush administration refused to join in the lawsuit, arguing the authority was not a government entity and therefore the government could not have been defrauded. Documents said two of the contracts cited in the lawsuit were paid for at least in part with money seized from the former Iraqi government.</p>
<p>"This is corruption at its worst," said Alan Grayson, the lead lawyer for the whistle-blowers.</p>
<p>Custer Battles, a small company based in suburban Washington, was one of many private security companies which rushed into postwar Iraq to snap up contracts to guard people and installations."</p>
<p>Since you seem to have different information than I Vancat, perhaps you could express your opinion on reports that our troops are being sent into battle without enough ammo or adequate vehicles?</p>
<p>vancat, nowadays almost every COMBAT personnel in Iraq is part of special ops and extremely qualified. wars of these types call for unconventional warfare and only special operations can provide that. it has been this way since desert storm. whether it be pararescue, SEALs, rangers, or delta, the combat soldiers in Iraq ARE the most highly trained troops in the world. contractors merely hire the retired special op guys, so in effect these private sector security forces are hiring the soldiers who USED to be the best of the best. i believe emerald kitty makes a valid point in that our troops are underfunded and deserve better.</p>
<p>also, everybody shutup about the draft. it will never happen. as i said before, warfare these days REQUIRE unconventional warfare and highly trained volunteer troops. a draftee would just hurt the war cause effort. be happy, if anyone, the DEMOCRATS were pushing for the draft and they lost the election.</p>
<p>
[quote]
By Acerockolla: vancat, nowadays almost every COMBAT personnel in Iraq is part of special ops and extremely qualified. wars of these types call for unconventional warfare and only special operations can provide that. it has been this way since desert storm. whether it be pararescue, SEALs, rangers, or delta, the combat soldiers in Iraq ARE the most highly trained troops in the world. contractors merely hire the retired special op guys, so in effect these private sector security forces are hiring the soldiers who USED to be the best of the best. i believe emerald kitty makes a valid point in that our troops are underfunded and deserve better.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Emeraldkity was implying that nearly all of the private security operatives there were undertrained and not prepared for the job. This is FALSE. Many of the private security guys, as you have stated, ARE some of the most qualified men out there. I can tell you that companies like Blackwater USA and dynacorp and others have EXTREMELY qualified men out there, most of whom are ex-special forces or law enforcement. They are top-notch and very competant. Also, private operatives typically operate as escorts for VIP, sentry duty, etc-, not always fighting on the front lines with Army troops. This frees up regular troops for combat operations and such.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is still the United States of America and I am entitled to my opinion and I don't have to STOP making assumptions just because you say so and you don't agree....unless as a BUSH fanatic you would want me to give that up my right to freedom of expression too.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not stopping you from making assumptions. I'm just telling you that many of your assumptions are misleading. </p>
<hr>
<p>As for the troops not being equipped to do their job: this is partially true, although you can't dish out blame to any one specific person or administration for that. The natural drawdown of power as a result of the Cold War ending reduced manpower and equipment levels severly. There's no helping that. The military, in every single war its been involved in, has always been "short of equipment." However, the majority of troops, especially the front-line troops, have access to equipment (issued and privately bought) that give them the ability to make full use of their already superior training and skill.</p>
<p>Thank God you are not stopping me from making and stating my "assumptions." You can't. But to tell me "YOU need too" makes my jaw clench.</p>
<p>you can assume all you want. I'm saying you need to stop throwing around generalizations and incorrect (sometimes blatantly- i.e. your draft comment) statements in order to stop misleading/confusing people.</p>