<p>^^ Yeah that’s actually true. </p>
<p>Actually I retract my statement about “top” MBAs - the wording is bad. I think a good MBA program gives you, as you call it, the “icing” you need. I definitely know some people who were able to utilize non-top MBAs.</p>
<p>anyone studying history or philosophy or such ******** is a mental case; should be on tricyclics</p>
<p>@ mathboy98</p>
<p>Should I understand? If you think my post was one-sided, maybe you should go back and read it again, especially if you think I am slighting engineers. All I said was I respect the skills gained from an engineering major over the money. Just stop. Other posters are not arguing that engineers make more money straight out of college. They are arguing that the skills you gain from reading classics / taking philosophy courses etc. are giving you skills which you cannot garner from an engineering degree. I was trying to say that, money aside, majoring in engineering is the right choice for many people, and they can do well with it. Same with LA degrees. Believe it or not, if engineers made 30,000 out of college, I guarantee you there would still be a lot of engineers. (Not as many obviously, but some people really are just cut out for that kind of thing.)</p>
<p>I’d say you are much more one-sided in your approach. Also, who said anything about having a family? Or wanting a “good career” (define “good”)? Not everyone has the same desires as you. For all you know, I do not want a family, maybe all I want to do is study classics and contemplate life. Oh and you said “There are very good reasons to be alarmed and frustrated at the tendency to major in the liberal arts without a strong view towards what you can do in the future.” … Are you going to tell me that more people go into liberal arts without a “strong view towards” what they can do in the future as compared to engineering? I’ll respectfully disagree. (see engineering drop out rates.) Good engineering students have bright futures. Good LA students have bright futures. We agree on this. So maybe your argument should not be against liberal arts, but bad students in college? </p>
<p>@ Andrewsky</p>
<p>Oh and Andrewsky - what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.</p>
<p>@ JanofLeiden</p>
<p>“anyone studying history or philosophy or such ******** is a mental case; should be on tricyclics”</p>
<p>You are kidding right? Hmm I guess you are right; not everyone can be successful you know? Some people have to stoop so low as to become … lawyers… yikes. (Wait, how well do philosophy majors do on the LSAT?)</p>
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<p>The thing is, it will be substantially easier for the engineering student who doesn’t really know what he wants to do with his life to get a job than the Classics major. I am a strong supporter of the liberal arts education for its own sake, and if you read my past posts you will see that I argue that they are not useless when it comes to getting a job.</p>
<p>At the same time we have to realize that the liberal arts student has to have a much more concrete plan than his science/math counterpart. Whether this be keeping in mind the grad school pre-reqs, taking courses that help with teacher licensure, working to get internships in the private sector, or in their field of study.</p>
<p>Like you said, I think that many liberal arts majors have a plan, but there are also many who don’t.</p>
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<p>Nice Billy Madison reference. It seems a bit disingenuous not to quote it, though.</p>
<h2>You are kidding right? Hmm I guess you are right; not everyone can be successful you know? Some people have to stoop so low as to become … lawyers… yikes. (Wait, how well do philosophy majors do on the LSAT?) ~ Coastin</h2>
<p>That is such a redundant and played out argument for philosophy.</p>
<p>Anytime Philosophy gets criticized somebody raised the same unrelated argument (But…but, Philosophy majors do good on LSAT’s - so there! Ha - I showed you!!)</p>
<p>First, I won’t argue that Philosophy major don’t do well on LSAT’s (they are usually ranked behind Physics and Math), but so what? Are Philosophy majors all going to become professional LSAT takers?</p>
<p>Have a career in LSAT Exams? Are you going to open an LSAT store? </p>
<p>If 90% of Philosophy majors were going to law school, I’d say ok - there is an obvious progression here, but that isn’t the case. Philosophy majors who go on to law school (not just grad school) are the minority of the students. In fact, the percentages of philosophy majors who go to law school are probably pretty equal to other majors like Poli Sci, Business, and Fiance - not to mention Pre-Law students.</p>
<p>If your majors best argument for it’s practicality is that it MIGHT help you score well on a test that you MIGHT take and help you get into college that you MIGHT want to go to and allow you to do a job that you MIGHT want to do, then it shows how far you are reaching.</p>
<p>At the same time we have to realize that the liberal arts student has to have a much more concrete plan than his science/math counterpart. Whether this be keeping in mind the grad school pre-reqs, taking courses that help with teacher licensure, working to get internships in the private sector, or in their field of study.</p>
<h2>Like you said, I think that many liberal arts majors have a plan, but there are also many who don’t. ~ ToniBallioni</h2>
<p>I completely agree with except for that last line.</p>
<p>I don’t think the problem is that many have NO plan, the problem is that they have UNREALISTIC plans.</p>
<p>Ask any Poli Sci major what job they want after graduation - they all say the samething in the same stupid way. “Like, I dunno - I’ve been thinkin about working for the UN, cuz I’m like all about the world and stuff, but I’m also thinking about joining the CIA, becuz that’d be really cool you know, travel and stuff. If that doesn’t work, I’m probably just goin to be a Diplomat or something, ya know? Like go live in France or England and then be an Ambassador.”</p>
<p>@ BigeastBEAST</p>
<p>“Ask any Poli Sci major what job they want after graduation - they all say the samething in the same stupid way. “Like, I dunno - I’ve been thinkin about working for the UN, cuz I’m like all about the world and stuff, but I’m also thinking about joining the CIA, becuz that’d be really cool you know, travel and stuff. If that doesn’t work, I’m probably just goin to be a Diplomat or something, ya know? Like go live in France or England and then be an Ambassador.””</p>
<p>OK well you told me your problem with my argument. I’ll tell you my problem with the argument you make, and JanofLeiden’s. </p>
<p>“anyone studying history or philosophy or such ******** is a mental case; should be on tricyclics”</p>
<p>You’ll notice in both your argument and in JanofLeiden’s, you are dealing in absolutes. “ANYONE” who is studying history or philosophy is not a mental case. And not every polisci major is as clueless as you make them out to be. It really is ridiculous that you think every single person that majors in political science is like that. To be honest you sound foolish. Now if you tell me, most of them are like that, I might agree with you. But the fact that you are so shortsighted as to make a generalization on that level… ridiculous. </p>
<p>By the way - I’m going to major in engineering. I am not biased. You people just say some of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard. Oh and no, philosophy majors are not professional LSAT takers, did I say they were? You take that to get into law school, as I’m sure you are aware. A good amount of them do do that. My point was a good amount of them are going into a respectable field, and are not mental cases.</p>
<p>^^^^^^^^^^^^</p>
<p>I never said anything about mental cases, so don’t lump me into a category I don’t belong in.</p>
<p>As far as my comment is concerned, I think it’s pretty accurate. I was a Poli Sci major, so I know the people pretty well, and the attitude I presented is extremely common. You can browse through these forums and see it for yourself, people wanting to know what to go to school for to be “CIA Agents, Ambassadors, Supreme Court Justices.”</p>
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<p>FYI: The only major law schools hate is Pre-Law. Check the law school forums and you’ll see this said 1000x.</p>
<p>I didn’t say you said that. I didn’t lump you in that category, so don’t misquote me. I lumped you into the category of people who argue in absolutes. You being a Poli Sci major does not qualify you speak on every single person who has taken that major. You went to one school I’m assuming? Lot of schools filled with Poli Sci majors out there… Oh and looked at some online forums… you must be knowledgeable of every single person’s aspirations! My brother is a poli sci major. He’s a lawyer now. I just proved your argument wrong. Don’t change your argument from “everyone” to “is extremely common”. I am arguing that not every person is like that. By changing your argument you are almost agreeing with me.</p>
<p>^^^^ I didn’t say everyone - you’re the one arguing absolutes. I said it was pretty common, and it is.</p>
<p>I think it’s pretty obvious I was talking in sarcasm in the post you quoted.</p>
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<p>These plans are a bit unrealistic, but let’s use the CIA one for example, because that is the most obtainable. The Poli Sci major should consider doing a double major in a foreign language, probably French, Russian, Arabic, or any East Asian Language. They should then apply to the CIAs summer internship programmes, or do an intensive immersion programme in the chosen language in the summer. At the same time looking for jobs at NGOs in their area of expertise in case they don’t get the CIA job.</p>
<p>It is possible to have a plan to work for the CIA that is reasonable. I think what you are referring to is that they have high dreams and hopes, but are not taking the steps needed, and do not have a plan to make it become reality.</p>
<p>^^^ Well, I guess that’s ok - but again, that is kinda unrealistic.</p>
<p>You are wagering alot on the hopes on getting a very competitive major. Practical majors make applicants just as competitive for most positions. Sometimes you shoot yourself in the foot by trying to be so specialized.</p>
<p>Sarcasm? Obvious in text form…that’s a new one. You didn’t say everyone? What’s this:</p>
<p>“Ask any Poli Sci major what job they want after graduation - they all say the samething in the same stupid way.”</p>
<p>Let me repeat. “THEY ALL”</p>
<p>Please do not deny something I can readily go back to and quote. I am done with this. I cannot argue constructively with a person who denies reality.</p>
<p>@ TonyBallioni</p>
<p>I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. What has to be understood is that majors are not bad, though some students are. It is harder to come from a LA background, but it is far from impossible for a motivated person. People saying those with LA degrees end up working for 12 dollars an hour and other complete fallacies just really anger me.</p>
<p>Peace</p>
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<p>Classicskid, the point is that understanding 4 years worth of classics and philosophy doesn’t seem to give you skills that actually sell in the working world. For instance, I know lots of mathematics that one simply cannot train in and acquire skills in by taking a few math classes, but that doesn’t mean those skills are useful outside of academia. </p>
<p>I think classics, philosophy, etc, should be studied, but I also think the people making somewhat brute-like claims that “this is useless, that is useless” have a real point to what they’re saying, which is that the skills you’re talking of are simply not a good starting point .</p>
<p>I’m agreeing with TonyBallioni that too many L.A. majors don’t really understand this fact enough. </p>
<p>The point is that although your immediate job description doesn’t have to match what you did in school, some generic skills that are better sold are well developed by certain avenues, and people don’t always appreciate this enough. If you do, then great for you, you’ll do fine.</p>
<p>Sarcasm? Obvious in text form…that’s a new one. You didn’t say everyone? What’s this:</p>
<p>“Ask any Poli Sci major what job they want after graduation - they all say the samething in the same stupid way.”</p>
<h2>Let me repeat. “THEY ALL” ~ Coastin</h2>
<p>Umm, if you read that quote, it’s pretty obvious from my spelling and diction that I was being sarcastic. But, it definitly has lots of truth, so I will stick by it. If you don’t like that - cry about it.</p>
<p>It has a lot of truth, except that it is not true.</p>
<p>Y’know I’m only kidding coastin. Read the rest of my posts in this thread. I’m a history major!</p>
<p>Plenty of lib arts majors go on to be very “successful”. Is it a straightforward path to employment? No. But it doesn’t doom you to McD’s for the rest of your life. My father was an english major; he’s now a surgeon. </p>
<p>BigEastBeast has a bizarre fixation on the liberal arts that’s a bit pathetic really. I find his hysterical protestations against any form of humanities education quite amusing. I can understand thinking the liberal arts aren’t useful; what I don’t understand is the impulse to lead a crusade against them. Most sane humans realize a society full of engineers would be a bit dreary.</p>