<p>As we all know, the U.S. economy is heading into a recession, and that probably means something to everyone, including graduate students. I am in particular curious about what that means to the students entering graduate schools in the fall of 2009. Would admission get tougher?</p>
<p>How about international students? Do they now face more competition?</p>
<p>Here's what I heard at a recent lecture by the director of admissions in the University of Chicago mathematics program:</p>
<p>Many states are going bankrupt. Although this doesn't mean much regarding private universities, it does hold significant meaning for publics. The first thing that gets cut when states get into financial trouble is higher education. And since PhD students pay no tuition and receive modest stipends, the number of PhD students admitted to each department at many state universities will significantly drop.</p>
<p>Now, I don't know exactly when this will happen (probably over the course of the next few years), and although changes will almost definitely occur, we don't know to what extent they will occur. The class of 2009 will probably not be impacted significantly; however, as for the classes of '11 and '12, students should be aware of the changes.</p>
<p>Many top publics are scrambling to decrease the percentage of their budget that derives from the government with varying degrees of success. I think I read somewhere that my school has reduced the percentage of their budget from the government by about 25% since they first took huge cuts. As for the effects, it is mostly noticeable here in terms of reduced class offerings (no more 3 person sections which really sucks for people in non-mainstream subdisciplines). However, at other schools (notably UFlorida) the freshman incoming class size was reduced by about 15% in response to the funding issue.</p>
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And since PhD students pay no tuition and receive modest stipends, the number of PhD students admitted to each department at many state universities will significantly drop.
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<p>Dunno about in other fields, but I know at the publics I applied to for engineering your advisor still had to cover tuition and your stipend through their own grants. None of the money actually came from the school. They'd actually cash in your first year if you were from out of state.</p>
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Dunno about in other fields, but I know at the publics I applied to for engineering your advisor still had to cover tuition and your stipend through their own grants. None of the money actually came from the school. They'd actually cash in your first year if you were from out of state.
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<p>I'll tell you what happens at Berkeley, and also presumably what happens at the other UC's. All incoming Berkeley PhD students are immediately instructed to apply for in-state residency as soon as feasible, and in fact, your department will generally hold meetings specifically geared towards helping you to do this, and then your administrators will then pester you constantly to make sure that you do. The reason for this is that by becoming a "state resident", your department has to pay you a lower overall "stipend" with which to cover your out-of-state fees. To be clear, that doesn't mean that you receive any more money in your pocket. It's just a way for Berkeley to save money.</p>
<p>Granted, this is probably just a silly internal accounting issue at Berkeley. But it is a silly issue with real-world repercussions, because any funds that your department has to provide to cover your 'extra' out-of-state tuition are funds that can't be used elsewhere. That's why your department will force you to declare state residency quickly, otherwise, why would they care so much?</p>
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All incoming Berkeley PhD students are immediately instructed to apply for in-state residency as soon as feasible
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<p>Seriously? They would laugh their arses off in Georgia if you went to school and tried to apply for residency.</p>
<p>The issue of residency is very different in different states. In Wisconsin, they have lots of regulations on how to become a resident (I don't know if these apply to graduate students) but you have to work a certain number of hours in the preceding year, have a home address, register your car etc to get residency. The work hour requirements basically prevented anyone from being a student while getting residency. In other states, simply registering to vote and having a home address is enough for residency.</p>
<p>Hiring freeze currently in affect at major companies. Graduate supply builds up, wages consequently go down, competition for limited positions increase.</p>
<p>When I applied for grad school last year, 3 schools told me they had to cut their budget and were taking nearly half the number of students they would like to take. I heard this from two UC schools and another public uni. </p>
<p>Now I believe them to a certain degree. But part of me also believes that they probably tell that to rejected applicants or applicants on their waitlist even when there isn't a budget cut. I'm applying again this year, and maybe there is going to be further budget cuts, I have no clue. But I took it all with a grain of salt.</p>
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I'll tell you what happens at Berkeley, and also presumably what happens at the other UC's. All incoming Berkeley PhD students are immediately instructed to apply for in-state residency as soon as feasible, and in fact, your department will generally hold meetings specifically geared towards helping you to do this, and then your administrators will then pester you constantly to make sure that you do. The reason for this is that by becoming a "state resident", your department has to pay you a lower overall "stipend" with which to cover your out-of-state fees. To be clear, that doesn't mean that you receive any more money in your pocket. It's just a way for Berkeley to save money.</p>
<p>Granted, this is probably just a silly internal accounting issue at Berkeley. But it is a silly issue with real-world repercussions, because any funds that your department has to provide to cover your 'extra' out-of-state tuition are funds that can't be used elsewhere. That's why your department will force you to declare state residency quickly, otherwise, why would they care so much?
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<p>Pretty much the same thing I was told at UCSB. The department I was visiting didn't seem to be having problems, and the only people that care about your costs are your advisor. Unless, of course, it costs considerably more than your tuition and stipend to support you that the school is supposed to absorb somewhere, but considering usually after two years you're off any sort of campus housing, not taking classes (if anything, you'll be TAing/teaching), and pretty much just living in your office/lab, I can't imagine you're nearly the drain on the system that undergrads are.</p>
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Seriously? They would laugh their arses off in Georgia if you went to school and tried to apply for residency.
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<p>No joke. I imagine that it would not be so hard if I went to say, Georgia Tech as an incoming PhD student and became a state resident. The key is that PhD students rarely if ever "pay" anything anyway because they're usually supported by stipends. For example, whether I go to Georgia Tech or to Emory for my PhD, regardless of which state I'm a resident in, I'm still going to end up with basically the same stipend going into my pocket. The only issue is how does the school itself account for all of your tuition "costs". See below. </p>
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The issue of residency is very different in different states. In Wisconsin, they have lots of regulations on how to become a resident (I don't know if these apply to graduate students) but you have to work a certain number of hours in the preceding year, have a home address, register your car etc to get residency. The work hour requirements basically prevented anyone from being a student while getting residency
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<p>The same thing applies in California too. The issue is that, as a PhD student, you can actually fulfill these requirements, because you can (through your stipend) actually demonstrate true financial independence, because your stipend is considered to be part of your "job". In fact, Berkeley will actually provide its PhD students with a set of forms that specifically show how your stipend fulfills your financial requirements for residency.</p>
<p>Now, regarding the other tasks - namely registering to vote, swapping driver's licenses, registering a car, etc. etc. - yes, you have to do all those things, which is precisely what Berkeley presses you to do as soon as you arrive, and heck, even before you arrive. Hence, the process is certainly not immediate: many people will take up to a year to become state residents, and foreign nationals might never successfully become residents. But the point is, if you can do it, Berkeley wants you to do it. They certainly don't want you hanging around for years-on-end, socking your department with OOS fees every year, if you could have established residency.</p>
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I can't imagine you're nearly the drain on the system that undergrads are.
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<p>Nobody is saying that the PhD students are as big of a drain as the undergrads are. The point simply is that many state schools seem to have silly accounting rules about whether PhD students have to "pay" OOS fees or not. Of course, like I said, those students don't really "pay" anything, as those fees are encapsulated within their stipend packages, but clearly that extra money has to come from somewhere, even if it's just a silly internal accounting quirk. Again, that's why Berkeley constantly nags its PhD students to declare state residency as soon as feasible so that Berkeley can stop having to cover those OOS fees.</p>
<p>Do you not realize when someone's agreeing with you sakky?</p>
<p>Do you realize when somebody's not arguing with you, RacinReaver?</p>
<p>I am simply providing more information about the strange 'games' that public schools sometimes have to play in order to support their graduate students.</p>