Re SCEA. If a substantial majority of the class gets in RD, SCEA means applicants effectively only get one shot at an elite school – and it’s extremely difficult to predict what their best shot is (especially by the end of October). It encourages kids to fixate on “the one” and to designate a highly selective school as “the one,” which is the opposite of what they should be doing. The public school exception is a nice release valve, if you live in a state with a strong public university system and/or could afford OOS tuition. But basically, SCEA sets up lots of kids to fixate on something that is probably out of reach and, as a result, they head into round two (and a much longer wait) feeling really scared about their prospects overall because they’ve not only been rebuffed by “the one” but, in the process, they’ve also sacrificed their best chance at their second and third choices.
Didn’t happen to my kid, but I saw it happen to lots of her classmates. Interestingly, they typically fared well in the RD round (either at the SCEA school or a peer), so for private school full-pay kids with excellent credentials it doesn’t seemed to have reached the point where it’s a single-shot system, but I suspect that (a) it’s already there for less privileged applicants and (b) it’s an unnecessarily brutal process for everyone.
Don’t know what it does wrt legacies – net effect in our household was D didn’t apply to either SCEA school where she would have had that status. Probably won’t effect our contributions to one of those schools (already giving) but may have to the other (had she been admitted and matriculated, we probably would have started contributing). No great loss in our case, but I can imagine it plays out differently in other families. And it definitely increases parental pressure on kids to SCEA Mom or Dad’s alma mater or risk permanently losing the legacy edge.
I like the consortium idea. There is zero point in sweeping the Ivies if the winner gives full FA. It ends the endless chase for the same over the top candidates who can only commit once, and tells the kid: show me who you are bc WE will choose the “fit”.
@intparent sending my average excellent student off to UM this fall…his choice, but I kinda knew that was his tribe from the beginning!
My experience is the opposite many comments. SCEA, ED, EA and RD worked as designed for us. S looked at the SCEA schools (given his intellect and focus on learning) and picked the one he liked best and applied SCEA (Yale). We needed FA so he didn’t consider applying early to any ED. He also applied EA to a few in-state schools. Was accepted SCEA but FA wasn’t as much as we had hoped so he applied to Harvard, Brown, Columbia and Duke. Was accepted to Columbia and Duke and wait-listed at Harvard and Brown. We now can compare 3 FA packages in making decision. Yes, the odds for his RD’s were worse than SCEA, they weren’t his #1 choice. With kids submitting applications to multiple top schools I think evaluating the kids that choose their school #1 is appropriate and fair.
I am posting this to let parents see an example where SCEA, ED, EA and RD worked the way it was designed. Note: my S is not a URM, legacy, hook, national award winner and without perfect stats. We did not use any consultants, test prep tutors or classes (used Amazon prep books). No extensive essay review process. White male from middle class family. An exceptional kid, but none of the so called “requirements” often sited.
I suspect no one loses their shot at MIT because of SCEA. The gap between MIT’s EA and RD admissions rates is fairly small (8.4 vs. 7.4%). Haven’t seen data on CalTech but wouldn’t be surprised if that’s true there as well. Both seek a specific kind of awesomeness that fewer HS students will mistakenly believe they possess.
Chicago’s gap (10 vs 4%) is much greater than MIT’s but not nearly as bad as HYP – and probably never will be if it stays EA (which gives it a significantly larger early applicant pool than it’d have as an SCEA school). Unless HYP decides to scale back the % of the class it admits SCEA. Stanford’s gap looks similar to Chicago’s. (9.5 vs. 3.6)
OP, if you wanted great mentors for your kid, you should have looked harder at top LACs. Chicago is a research university with grad students. Not saying your son won’t find some mentoring there, but Chicago is not a nuturing environment – full of brilliant people, but very Darwinian. That is the main reason my kid turned it down. The level of mentoring my kids have gotten at LACs puts Michigan to shame. But I have no illusions – my snowflakes will have to work their tails off to succeed just the same. I don’t think that is a bad thing.
For those who attended UM, I am honestly surprised to hear people consider this not as great a place to start from (1975-1992 version I would assume). Back in the day UM was considered an excellent school and a prime OOS destination. Easily the equal of most top private universities.
I wonder if this is a public school mentality, sorry to generalize. Years ago I worked with someone who went to another public ivy. I attended a private university. We were both doing an internship and it was almost as though she thought I had some perceived advantage being from my university. I did not and had to work just as hard. I never forgot it but I always thought it was some issue unique to her. I have met other people through my kids who brag about being from UM, go out of their way to wear the clothes when graduation was in 1988.
My friends run a club in the summer where they hire affluent kids, worst employees are from HYPs, best are usually from the better state schools.
@intparent, the U of C has a reputation of having some profs who care about involving undergrads. Obviously not all, and it would likely depend on the department. Econ has a ton of students, but for an undergrad who wants to get grad student-level mentoring in Near Eastern cultures and languages or the like, there are few places better.
In the NE region: Michigan gets good reactions. It is considered very hard to get into (harder each year) and quite prestigious. On any given day I see a hat with a big yellow M on the streets here, or a gold shirt, umbrella, etc.
Michigan is a great school for students who want a big college experience. Lots of smart people there, strong in a lot of majors, best fight song ever. But many classes taught by TAs (and many of them not native English speakers). Large lectures, and many profs more focused on research than teaching (and that is how they are incented, too). I don’t think I ever met with an advisor there, and had no mentors. And that is the challenge at many public universities, and large research universities in general. Since the OP mentioned mentoring as key in his mind for his kids, I am just saying that maybe he wasn’t looking in the right places.
UM was and is a great school. I loved my time there in the late '80s. But you definitely got thrown in the deep end of the pool back then. In UMs defense, I was always a box checker, and in a big hurry to graduate, move onto grad school, and start working. If I had stopped to smell the roses or worked a little harder to navigate the support system, it probably would have been a much different experience.
@intparent. I’m not looking for academic mentors for DS. He’s pretty committed to a certain path right now and he’s going to need real world and career mentors. And for his area of interest, UChicago will give him a huge advantage.
UC isn’t renowned as a pre-professional school. I am curious what career and real world mentors he would find there. If there are mentors on the ground there, they are going to be heavily on the academic side.
The IB and Quant fields are filled with UC grads now. And UC has changed a lot over the past decade. Much more preprofessional. DS just attended a career event with a room full of finance and banking guys that all graduated in the last few years.
But many classes taught by TAs (and many of them not native English speakers). Large lectures, and many profs more focused on research than teaching (and that is how they are incented, too). I don’t think I ever met with an advisor there, and had no mentors. And that is the challenge at many public universities, and large research universities in general. Since the OP mentioned mentoring as key in his mind for his kids, I am just saying that maybe he wasn’t looking in the right places.