<p>I'm a junior, and I was having a conversation with my friend about college applications.
background:
I am an average student.
He is the perfect student, amazing musician, straight A's mostly AP classes, 2080SATscore. (770math as far as i know)</p>
<p>And he tells me that the ESSAY is the most important thing on the application! As in, the grades are secondary.
PARAPHRASE: "the essay is the most important thing, grades and test scores are only kickers."</p>
<p>PS for those of you who dont know, a kicker in card games is the card that beats the other players if you have the same matches.IE: both of you have pairs of aces in Texas Hold'Em, whoever has the higher 'other' card wins.</p>
<p>So I'm thinking my friend here is a credible source, what do YOU think?
Essay more important than grades, or grades more important than essay? (he says 3.3 is a satisfactory gpa!) </p>
<p>we're talkin about admissions into top-tier colleges, Harvard-type schools</p>
<p>edit: in addition to the essay, he mentioned extracirriculars. So Extracirriculars+Essay > grades+test scores</p>
<p>uh, no, he's wrong. tell him to do some research into the obvious...
also, 3.3 can be considered satisfactory depending on what your course-load is like.</p>
<p>Grades/scores put you into a category. Essays differentiate you from others within that category. If you don't make Harvard's category, your essay won't get you into Harvard.</p>
<p>Of course that is an oversimplification but I think in general it is accurate.</p>
<p>There are some of you that seem to be attacking my friend's opinion here.
(lol, when i read them, they sound vicious, especially vasudevank's)</p>
<p>Well I'm just asking for opinions on what you think the ADCOMS would think. You all are giving me the impression of the "IM RIGHT, YOUR FRIEND'S WRONG" mentality.</p>
<p>none of us REALLY knows what goes on behind adcom doors.</p>
<p>my opinion: IF i were Adcoms, I would care more about personal qualities (extracirriculars and essays) rather than grades and test scores. It hurts to say, I mean i've worked hard for grades too. I just don't want to admit a person that would bring no soul to the campus.</p>
<p>PS this would be different for math/science people.</p>
<p>edit: of course even if he's the nicest guy in the world, if the guy is a total dumbass, i wouldnt admit him.</p>
<p>i think they are both equally important..... fabulous essay and fabulous grades are both ''required''. EC is also important...but i think if you dont have good grades,good EC wont help you that much.(unless your EC is VERY amazing,like winning lots of national competition)</p>
<p>Now, the essay might very well be the "kicker." Harvard and other top-tier schools get many, many qualified applicants. Once you reach the threshold for admission, you need to differentiate. The essay is what can do this, though it's not necessarily the only thing. Killer EC's can also help.</p>
<p>But the fact remains you need the grades to even be considered, so consider your friend's bias. He already <em>has</em> the grades, so he just thinks of them as a given.</p>
<p>For the vast majority of colleges, grades are the #1 factor. Other factors like the essay only really come into play when schools receive so many near-perfect applicants that they couldn't accept them all.</p>
<p>Well I dont know if this helps you, but I visited Stanford this summer, and this is what the admissions officer said... in an nutshell...</p>
<p>A student's GPA, is by far the most important thing in the admissions process. TheSAT score, is also important, as it verifies the academic level of the sudent, however, SAT scores arent everything. Many of our students apply with the grades and SATs to be qualified, so we need to look at essays and ECs and recs to see what sets them apart. These are very important too.
After, she said, the MOST important thing, is the GPA. The second most, is the teacher recommendations... and that most people underestimate this. Then, comes the essay.... after, the SATs and ECs</p>
<p>At college fairs, Ive heard similar things. Of course they vary, but the one thing all the ivy reps said, is the the GPA is the MOST IMPORTANT.</p>
<p>anyways, not to sound like my dad here <em>shudders at the thought</em>, but it actually IS a fact. no adcom will ever, ever tell u that essay > grades. ever...ever. grades always rank either #1 or #2 [between that & SAT score]. always, always...always. in fact, there r published reports on how much % 'weight importance' is given to each aspect of a student's overall portfolio.
i doubt your friend even actually thinks this, as he has the grades...</p>
<p>well its good to be wellrounded, so person A would be a good choice.</p>
<p>However, harvard may also admit person B, because their scores arent THAT BAD</p>
<p>what if it was like this, then would you agree that GPA is most important? I mean passion is very important too,.... but you NEED the foundation. My post earlier proved that that is how the adcoms think.</p>
<p>So what if the numbers were like this?</p>
<p>Aperson: 4.0 GPA, EnviroScienceAP(got an A), 2300SAT, athlete
Bperson: 3.1 GPA, EnviroScience (got a B), 1700SAT, president of green club
C person: 4.0 GPA, 2150 SAT, Athelete, volunteer at UN, officer of green club. No classes in enviro sciences.</p>
<p>cadence: no college whatsoever diminishes the fact that they are institutions of academia first and foremost. You may hope all you want about how a stellar essay will supercede sub-par academic achievement but that won't change reality. WIth the top colleges, once a minimum academic level is demonstrated, essays and recs are what distinguishes the applicants -- that much is true.</p>
<p>Also, even the most selective colleges only get a handful of "wow" essays each year. The vast majority of even admitted students to HYP et al are solid but don't propel a poor candidate forward.</p>
<p>you made Bperson a bit too dumb basketballbabe :(</p>
<p>Also, Cperson does express her passion for the environment through being officer of the green club, and it doesnt matter if she had a envscience class in high school or not, because the whole point of college is to learn anyway, so she'll learn here.</p>
<p>So yes, I'd prefer Cperson over Bperson.
Order of preference: C, A, B</p>
<p>B person is too underqualified, i would worry that he might not handle the workload here.
if he had 3.3gpa 1900SAT, i would prefer B over A because he shows the most passion for the environment.</p>
<p>I would consider you're friend right in certain circumstances.</p>
<p>The poker analogy is PERFECT! At least for high end schools-</p>
<p>Most everyone applying has decent-perfect grades. The essay (and all the other subjective parts) are what set you apart.</p>
<p>The grades and scores get you past the first round, and are looked at in later rounds. But the other parts like the essay can really set you apart.</p>
<p>All though- comparing JUST the essay to grades, no one in their right mind will say the essay is more important. Admissions is always a package deal</p>