Publishing admit rates is a no-win proposition for colleges. Publish them and you are simply hunting for bragging rights. Don’t publish them and you are hiding information.
I recall when Stanford stopped publishing them because of all the media attention they were receiving for the low rates. Stanford’s stated reason:
I think you hit upon the key point: the culture within which they were raised
And this isn’t as simple as “tiger moms and dads putting too much pressure on kids” or “T20 schools marketing themselves as the be-all end all” or “social media glorifying the college admissions process with viral tiktoks and youtube videos”.
It’s all of it.
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I don’t think it is entirely fair to put blanket blame on parents. I am not disagreeing that some parents go nuts over elite schools. But kids where I live are inundated with questions from all directions regarding college apps. People - total strangers- think it is a fun ice breaker conversation. It isn’t. Kids are well aware that they are being judged daily by their college list - by strangers, friends, family, everyone. That’s a lot of pressure. Good luck to parents trying to combat that onslaught.
They are not posting admission stats in press releases following “Ivy Day”, but I expect they will still publish enough information to derive admit rate on their website.
For example, Stanford stopped publishing admit stats in press releases a few years ago, but they still list number applied and number admitted on their admission statistics page at Page Not Found : Stanford University (for class of 2025), which is prominently linked on their website. 55k applied, and 2k were admitted.
Caltech was one of the first selective colleges to stop posting admit rate press releases. They also have admission stat page at https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/first-year-freshman-applicants/class-profile (for class of 2024), which shows over 8000 applied for 200 spots.
The Ivies that are not publishing admit stat press releases continue to have similar admission stats type pages on their website, from which a student can derive admit rate (often for class of 2025). I expect they will continue to do so in future years.
The response we taught our kids to use was “I am applying to a range of schools and I am hopeful to get into some of them. I will be sure to let you know by May where I decide to go.”
And that was it. Even if prodded, that was it. They got the hint.
Kiddo had a practiced response, too. But point is - kids know by how often they are asked (not by their answer) that the culture cares and judges people by where they go to college.
I think another important factor that sank in for me after reading about admissions via books like Selingo’s is that the overall stats for a school don’t matter. Most admissions offices will be reading the applications that come from one school (or perhaps city if they don’t pull many apps from there) and comparing within that group for relative accomplishment. This is how they correct for grade inflation and many other factors.
Does the valedictorian of your school typically get an Ivy admit (and which Ivy)? Are you the valedictorian? What kind of other distinguishing accomplishments have made this happen for others at your school in the past? You can look around locally to see where you stand. Your high GPA, SAT, and top 10% class rank are not going to lead to a Harvard admit if there are 10 other students at your school applying to Harvard with even higher stats and more ECs. They are of course looking to balance their class, so they will never admit too many people from one place (or background), regardless of qualifications.
So work with your Naviance or whatever tool your high school uses to understand your relative chances. This will give you a more realistic sense of the odds. If you are applying from a place that does not typically send anyone to an Ivy, it is more of an unknown.
Culture cares and judges people by how they look. How they dress. How much money they make. Clubs they belong to. Where they live. Car they drive. Religious and political views. Really no end to how culture cares and judges people.
What if all that is true but said kid gets mediocre grades (and not the CC “average” kid with a 3.8uw), average test scores (and not the CC “average” kid with 1510), and average ECs (not the CC “average” kids with “only” 2 successful start-ups and “only” 2 national awards)? Kid is likely headed to a state directional college or gawd forbid…a trade. No doubt feeling like he the family down. Layer on a sibling to went “elite” and then what?
I can’t get my head around this. I’ve read this sentiment here before and it still boggles my mind. Parents should not be putting pressure on kids so that the kids feel that they let the parents down if they aren’t successful. Further, I’m not sure why going to a state directional college or into a trade is considered not successful. As long as my kid isn’t living in my basement playing video games at age 30 I am happy. My goal as a parent is for my kid to be a mostly happy, self-supporting adult. I’ve never had a goal for where they should go to college, therefore they can’t let me down by going somewhere else.
IMO, this whole thread is based upon a problem that doesn’t exist: When to notify kids of accepts / rejects. Who cares about when? Does the timing change anything? No. Some would prefer it this way, others would prefer rolling. So what?
At the end of the day, live with the results and move on. it’s called life.
Getting in to these 8 schools is a whole different conversation.
A kid who isn’t psychologically prepared to take a bunch of rejections on the same day perhaps shouldn’t apply to a bunch of highly rejective schools that announce their decisions on the same day in the first place, should s/he?
Ok, I’m wrong. Even though I live in an affluent area of the Northeast which is allegedly obsessed with the prestige of two handfuls of university’s- and every day observe pretty happy HS kids going about their business. One HS senior on my block just got one of those balance board thing-a-majigs and he seems to be spending his spring break teaching the younger kids in the neighborhood how to use it which is both adorable and terrifying as I look outside my office window. But I digress.
Saaillakeerie has words of wisdom. We live in a society which adores Kardashians/Real housewives/Bachelor’s… is it healthier that a small sub-segment thinks that getting in to Yale is a bigger accomplishment than having multiple plastic surgeries to enhance your tush or reduce your chin? Is it more or less devastating to get rejected by your “dream school” vs. elevating the pursuit of relentless consumerism (handbag, shoes, brand of party dress) to an extreme level?
It’s hard to be a parent. That’s for sure. But if you’re going to give up and say “My kid’s school is obsessed with prestigious college admissions, there’s nothing I can do about it”, seems to be it’s the same as saying “We will not reinforce our own family’s values even in light of some pernicious and unhealthy messages”. So what’s next-wholesale adoption of every sad and terrible trend that Instagram is preaching? Where does it end?
I agree with you. And I think most people do. I think even most people on this site agree (though by a smaller margin). But there are some here who are Top x or bust. Its how they think. Its how they raise their kids. And otherwise live their lives.
To me, this is so much broader than Ivy Day. The whole culture around US college admissions creates a lot of stress and pressure. The added dimension of ED; the roulette game of financial aid; and the very public way admissions are announced and celebrated: this all creates stress. This last part, having to make an announcement(!!) is too much for some.
In most other countries all kids apply with the same deadline. The costs are published and fixed, perhaps based on a sliding scale. University admission and decision is a private matter discussed with friends but not a matter for public interest or social media. It seems a lot less stressful.
As parents, we can’t control the culture but we can have our little sphere of influence. Here on this forum I read a lot of wise comments about trying to find the school that is a good fit academically and financially rather than looking at ranking. Thank you to all the parents who have helped me keep everything in perspective!
I’d like to share a story here.
A dear friend, an Ivy grad, has a lovely and terrific D. She was the val at her large, well-respected suburban public school. She won a number of science prizes in a science fair way - not Westinghouse or anything like that. She went to nationals in her sport - more impressive on paper than irl, but clearlythe resultof work and talent… And lots of other ECs. Top scores. Overall, she did everything at her school really well.
My friend was pretty sure she’d get into an ivy. Almost certain, in fact. Especially the one where she had legacy status. She did not. (5 years ago). She had a number of other options, including several at public honors colleges.
She attended all the revisits and ultimately opted for an OOS flagship in their honors college. They had her sport as a club sport, which she did.
This young woman is headed off to med school in the fall.
Looking back, i have some thoughts. First, I would be happy to have her as my doctor in a few years!. Her ultimate path to her goal was unaffected by her college choice. Or maybe enhanced by it. Who’s to say she’d have done as well academically at an Ivy.
She is very smart and hard working and has shown that she is great at mastering what is put in front of her. In high school, there was no groundbreaking thinking or going beyond excellence at the canon. Was this what the ivies were looked for? Did it matter?
In her case, this has a perfect ending. I’m not sure why Ivies even entered the picture beyond the fact that she was clearly an excellent student. One who got exactly what she needed from a flagship.
I grew up in in the shadows cast by “lesser” Ivy, Dartmouth. Not in Hanover proper but very close. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, had sweatshirts and tees. We thought they helped us “blend in” at concerts, homecoming, events and parties. Maybe it was spending tons of time on campus (or maybe it was something else entirely) but no one from my high school ever applied there. My class had smart kids - Hamilton, Clemson, Haverford, Smith - and not a one applied to any other Ivy either. I don’t know but perhaps being able to observe their warts and faults up close and personal on a regular basis helped us see they weren’t the Holy Grail everyone else was chasing.
I don’t live there anymore, and my family hasn’t been there in decades. I have a close friend where I live now who has a Dartmouth student and their experience is just like we observed back in the day.
Every year Harvard has a homeless to Harvard story. One year, they found out the girl hadn’t been homeless and it raised a whole bunch of issues. I think she was kicked out. It also makes to better copy than Buffy from Andover who rows and plans to do IB banking.
Yes, sad stories generate interest and often acceptances and top tier schools. But there are buckets and they are not going to accept only these type of kids. There is a bucket for many things often discussed on CC. ( legacy, Sports, private v. public, EC’s, region). What bothers people on CC is that many are in the same bucket. Move to ND and most of these parents would find a different result similar to the homeless scenario.
That’s the key phrase. Right there.