The experience of an Ivy reject

<p>I, on the other hand, know my kids’ every grade before it’s ever posted by their teachers (I am very good at doing calculations in my head). I know every paper and test my kids have in next 2-3 weeks so we could make sure our family acitivies wouldn’t interfere with their school work. My idea of visiting foreign country is 5 hours of shopping and 2 hours of museum, and during those 2 hours I would be in the hotel waiting for them to come back. D2 at age 5 walked into Musee D’orsay, she asked us if we were shopping for pictures. I usually go brain dead when we travel, and my H is the one to try to instill some culture in them. I have been know to drive 1.5 hour to the Great Wall (never mind about the plane ride) and stayed for .5 hour because it was too cold and one section of the Great Wall is same as another. I am ok with how “shallow” we are because we always have the best time when we travel. Our kids have the craziest tales to tell abut what we do.</p>

<p>What we like to do in every foreign city is to sit at cafes to watch people. Our girls would notice how differently people dress and how they interact with each other. By walking around Sydney, they immediately picked up on the fact they were 10-15 years behind us. I asked them why. They said, “They have a lot of Eurasian babies, but no one our age.”</p>

<p>And this why I feel so sorry for very intelligent kids who are clearly on their way to becoming intellectuals. Schools do not recognize their gifts and people are shaking their heads because of their lack of plumbing skills. Please accept these kids! And no way that a parent can force these talents on a kid. They are the way they are. There is no need to look up to them, but crushing them is not necessary either. And yes, their parents are often rather outspoken simply because even the most soft-spoken parent will become like that after the umptieth discussion with a totally uninformed and unwilling teacher or principal. Everyone understands that kids may have special needs, but for some reason or another the needs of highly intelligent kids are not considered special.</p>

<p>Please realize that later on in life some beautiful things may be the outcome of the thoughts, reasoning and analytical talents of these kids. They are part of society. They have always been part of society.</p>

<p>Note: An intellectual is not by definion a nerd. He or she may even be good in plumbing.</p>

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<p>what makes you think fun can be only had when it is devoid of intellectual quality? Some people actually find intellectual engagement quite stimulating and enjoyable. When S2 wanted to visit all the famous battle fields of WWI and WWII in Europe, we had a tremendously good time goofing around, role playing between different parties in different sites. Meanwhile, in anticipation of this trip, he had done a lot of reading on his own without any prodding our our part, and initiated a lot of discussion on historical, cultural, and political precursors to, ramifications of and implications of those wars and battles, which we all enjoyed very much. .Yes, it was an arduous trip to the Everest base camp, and they complained then, but now they have the fondest memory of the the rough trip we endured as a family together, and the amazing personal stories they heard from the Tibetan tour guides. They witnessed first hand what it means to live under the repressive colonial policy aiming to reduce one’s heritage and history. And they still talk about the Pergamon museum in Berlin and 8 hour guided historical walking tour in Prague. </p>

<p>And, please, in case you are ready to charge me with elitism about going to all these places… we save our money for things like this, while driving the cheapest cars, getting a $12 haircut and wearing only modest clothes bought at 70% mark down. </p>

<p>Different folks, different strokes. It’s puzzling why some people have the need to deride and dismiss others when they would like to spend their time on intellectual pursuits. This is what I mean by anti intellectualism in this culture. I would never deride folks for their passion for foot ball game. A quid pro quo would be nice.</p>

<p>I’ve come to be proud that for Americans, there exists a wide range of “good” outcomes and worthwhile ways to raise one’s kids.
Congrats to the OP’s daughter.
Re: the intellectualism at the University of Chicago, where I live and work. Here are a couple of anecdotes about two recent undergraduate work-study students I have had the pleasure to know, and their salient passions.
One knew every line of every episode of the “Golden Girls” TV series by heart. Nothing else interested her as much.
The second attended a Labor Day convention in Atlanta every year where people show up dressed as their favorite super hero or fantasy character. She just “had to” show me a couple hundred photos on her laptop of the highpoint of her year.
Ah, the University of Chicago! In spite of some mainstreaming of the student body due to the echo-boom overflow from the Ivy League, the “core” still exists.</p>

<p>hye, But why did you feel the need to go the mountain, couldn’t the mountain just come to you? ;)</p>

<p>Fun and intellectual are not mutually exclusive, despite the famous slogan about U/Chicago. Some of my favorite photos with D are of the two of us dressed in Ren Faire garb…serious this is not. But one of her application essays was about a Roman coin she bought at a Ren Faire and how she wondered if it had once been held by a slave girl her age sent to the market for bread…</p>

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<p>Gosh, there I was, glad not be a part of this thread. My ‘intellectual’ son (he is, actually) didn’t apply to any Ivy League schools, but he did think he wanted to go to UChicago. In the end, he turned UC down, despite a merit scholarship–for Vanderbilt. </p>

<p>So tell me Dad, what’s with the gratuitous dig at Vanderbilt? Did I miss something in the previous pages?</p>

<p>IMO, we can find intellectuals just about anywhere, except maybe within this thread. </p>

<p>Pathetic.</p>

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Yah. It’s been puzzling to me on this thread, too. If you figure it out be sure to tell me.</p>

<p>Certainly, TheDad and no one I know was suggesting it was. But assuming a family trip would equate to “time wasted”? I found it telling, but , then again, maybe I just pulled something out of a post to make my own point. Hmmmm. Where would I have learned that? I saw it somewhere…recently. lol.</p>

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<p>One of my son’s favorite shows! (It’s extremely popular among gay men, for those who didn’t know.)</p>

<p>Curmudgeon, I’ve spent lots of time with my son in the last 19 years “doing nothing” and enjoying ourselves as such. Dolce far niente is a philosophy I’ve long followed, within limits. But did it occur to you that for some kids, going to museums when they’re on vacation just happens to be one of their favorite activities, something they immensely enjoy – and not because they’ve been pressured into it? When my son and I spent 8 days in London together when he was 12, substantial portions of at least 6 of them were spent at the British Museum, the National Gallery, and the Tate Modern. No different from Boston when he was 8 and 14, or Philadelphia when he was 6, or Washington at 5 and 13, or San Francisco at 16, or Chicago and Minneapolis-St. Paul in 2007 (when he wasn’t visiting the U of C and Macalester!), or Rome last year. None of it my idea. His. It’s been one of my favorite things to do as well, from the time I was a small child and my grandmother took me to visit the Metropolitan Museum of Art a dozen times a year. But it isn’t something I’ve ever pushed on him.</p>

<p>It’s just something we love doing together. (Of course, for me all that art just kind of blends together; I find it completely astonishing sometimes that he can remember just about every painting he’s seen in the last 10 years, and where he saw it, and who the artist was. No wonder he’s recently decided to be an art history major! For a while, he thought studying it might ruin his love of art, but he’s come to realize, from a course on the history of photography he’s taking now, how much he loves learning about art theory.) </p>

<p>Really, I have no doubt that there are lots of schools where my son would be happy, academically and otherwise. I don’t think I’m guilty of irrational exceptionalism with respect to the U of C. But I do believe that there aren’t that many schools where he’d find quite as many like-minded kids as there are at Chicago, or where he doesn’t have to worry about the excessive presence of some of the kinds of things (and people) that might interfere with the sort of life he wants to lead at college. </p>

<p>And anyone who thinks that makes either of us “intellectual poseurs” – or who doesn’t recognize the anti-intellectualism that’s been displayed at times in this thread – can go jump in the lake. “Well-rounded” and “well-balanced” are to some extent, and always have been, code words reflecting hostility to kids who are a little “different” from the Jack Armstrong ideal – their origins in college admissions clearly had a good bit to do with the desire to keep out Jews – and are also based on a series of (in my opinion) unproven, and probably unprovable, assumptions about what’s necessary for “success” in life, as well as the meaning of “success” in the first place.</p>

<p>By the way, I don’t consider myself an “intellectual,” and never have. Which is one of the reasons I went to law school instead of graduate school in history. Among other things, I was just too damn lazy to gain the required foreign language proficiency. But my son certainly has the potential to be one, in terms of his talents, his interests, and an enthusiasm for academics that’s much more intense than any I ever had. (At least when it came to actually doing things, instead of just thinking about them!)</p>

<p>I like museums (and love Art History) and didn’t say anything negative about them. Why would you think I didn’t? I also like U of C. And I’m not anti-intellectual , although I am anti-phony-intellectualism. I’m getting confused. What was thread about again? Oh, yeah. Disappointment. I am disappointed and growing moreso by the post. :(</p>

<p>So what exactly was your problem with what hyonjlee had to say about the vacations his or her family took? I don’t get it.</p>

<p>Not that I"m really sure what this thread is about at this point either!</p>

<p>Re-read my post # 341…I objected to the idea that time spent just chillin’ with the chillun’ was always “wasted time”. I then lamented in a parent mea culpa my own failings in that regard and expressed my desire for a do-ever, i.e. I wanted to waste more time “without agenda or purpose”. I thought I was clear but…maybe not.</p>

<p>I closed by saying “But we all do what we think is best.”</p>

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<p>I still don’t get how U of C is “phony” intellectualism.</p>

<p>Who in God’s name said that? lol. You can’t be serious? Can you? ROTFLMAO . Oh , I wish I had a competent set of smilies.</p>

<p>Sorry, MidMo, attempts at humor in this environment doesn’t always work. It wasn’t a dig at Vandy. It was a dig at some who, perhaps, might consider Vandy as the substitute for HYPSM, U/Chicago, or U/Whatever as The Best of All Possible Worlds.</p>

<p>I have a great respect for Vandy; it’s not U/Chicago but there’s no reason it should be and either one is a spectacular fit for the right student. </p>

<p>Now, there are colleges that I <em>do</em> look down upon but I mostly keep quiet about them except for the occasional outburst. But Vandy ain’t one of them.</p>

<p>Skin is thin, TheDad. And nowhere thinner than on this looney thread.</p>

<p>curmudgeon: No, you were not clear. Thanks for answering Donnal’s question.</p>

<p>Family time? For some it means a sandy beach and lots of sun. Others - including my family - are bored to death after having spent 1 day at a beach (not to mention the annoying feeling of sand between our toes). We need the thrill of visiting new places/cultures, we are curious, we like being exposed to what foreign countries have to offer. But our trips are and have never been the result of an agenda. It is and was our (natural) way of ‘chilling with the children’. </p>

<p>Whatever way you spend time on “chilling with the children”, it will never be “wasted time”. Having said that, it is a nice bonus that kids do learn a few things from being exposed to foreign cultures and places including the arts and history). Touring 8 weeks in France (in a small rented car and sleeping in an even smaller tent on campings municipaux) and especially the French food convinced my S that it is worthwhile to learn more about the French language.</p>

<p>Then I’m glad I repeated myself. </p>

<p>My family enjoys travel, too. And music. And literature. </p>

<p>Oh. And before someone asks, I was not watching football as I said in my post (just rabbit ears here on the ranch) and the last time those meddling doctors let me have any alcohol the world had never heard of Monica Lewinsky’s blue dress. Please excuse my poetic license. I was just playing to the penny seats. Giving them what they wanted (and obviously expected). ;)</p>

<p>so what if I had an “agenda” about family vacations? The way it is worded, it sounds like some kind of a dirty family secret. Would you describe parents who bring their children to church every Sunday as having a sinister agenda of their own? I would call that parenting philosophy, just as I have a parenting philosophy.</p>

<p>Yes, we do plenty of “chilling with kids, having fun without an agenda” at home - all the time. However, when it comes to twice a year vacation, I’ve always had an agenda. That is, while they are still with us, and we have the financial resources to do so, I wanted to expose them to all the wonders of this planet so that when they leave my nest they will feel that the world is truly their oysters and they will have no fear about being anywhere on this planet. So, instead of spending precious vacation time and money roasting under the same Sun in an enclosed international resort overseas that is virtually indistinguishable from yet another such bland luxury resort, I took them on wild trips all over the world. </p>

<p>In the process, they developed nuanced understanding of the history, culture, art, politics and economics in vastly different regions of the world. S1’s career choice is borne out of this experience: that the nation’s wealth is really more of a product of a culture and economics/finance/political system rather than natural resources. S2’s career goals in armed forces also got an “upgrade” in that he developed an appreciation for the role of US’s military power in global geopolitics. They are both very much appreciative of the opportunities that were given to them - the kind of opportunities and experience not common among their peers. Meanwhile, we have oodles and oodles of family memories and adventures that we all talk about and laugh over - like being robbed at a gun point in Guatemala and being almost beaten by a sea lion in Galapagos Islands. These shared family memories are more precious to me than any material possession I have.</p>

<p>Why is this type of time spent with kids being judged as having “an agenda”, while folks taking kids to weekly sports games, beach resorts, and Disney World suffer no such second guessing? This is why I feel that there is subtle and not so subtle anti intellectualism in this culture. Those who aspire to rise to the intellectual plane are often looked upon suspiciously and often accused of being “elitists”.</p>

<p>Oh well, I guess this shouldn’t go on like this forever. I am retiring from this thread. By and large, most of the parents on CC are very conscientious and want to do the best for their children, and all deserve commendation for that.</p>

<p>Peace.</p>