<h1>460 -Well what else is a “pure intellectual” to do with his life? (jk!!)</h1>
<p>I see that the Chicago-boosters are back in full-force so I would humbly ask to take advantage of the expertise here, and ask a question:</p>
<p>How do Northwestern and Chicago compare, PUTTING ASIDE the culture of the university (i.e. intellectualism, nerdiness factor, lack of sports or school spirit at Chicago vs. frat/sorority/football culture at NU), how would you compare the academics at the undergraduate level? For example, if a student were purely interested in being educated in the field of, say, History or Poli Sci or Slavic Language and Literature, where would the difference in level of instruction lie? I ask since students at both these schools can take advantage of all Chicago has to offer, and are not far apart on the USNews scale (8 vs. 12). How are the “academics” different, in your opinions?</p>
<p>Post 461:
Well, about 5-7 years ago, when some of our kids were drawing up their college lists, Midway did not offer that many flights to the West Coast. (Hello out there: ever heard of the vast territory west of Illinois? )</p>
<p>Although I stated I am not on a team, it’s become clear that I am indeed on a team, perhaps a team of one, however:</p>
<p>People who have perfectly rational reasons why their children are not attending Chicago but who forever feel the need to defend their choices against semi-hostile inquiries</p>
<p>danas: I had to be in Chicago on certain days. My airfare cost several hundred dollars. I did quite a bit of research to get that airfare. And then, because of traffic, I missed my flight. I had to find another flight that same day since my meetings started the next day at 9am. That costs me a good hour of anxious calling and worrying about my cell phone battery (there was a single plug in the whole terminal, occupied by someone else). I made it that day, at extra cost. Coming back there was a huge delay because of weather.
Although I travel a fair amount, I never manage to take advantage of cheap deals. Oh, well, I get reimbursed by my company. </p>
<p>If one is from the Boston area, there are many terrific schools within a two-hour driving distance, and some even within walking distance. That certainly conditions students to look close to home. </p>
<p>I didn’t major in any of those subjects, but one big difference is the core at university of Chicago. Maybe someone from U. of C. can explain in more detail, but my impression is that everyone has to take very intensive courses in every several different subjects for the first year. I think it’s more rigid than just requiring electives outside of one’s major, and the classes are quite intense. For example, they don’t let people take an easy option in something they’re not good in. I think the core is somewhat similar to MIT’s first year (which requires physics, chem, bio, calc through MVC), except that it emphasizes the humanities subjects more.</p>
<p>And there is grade deflation, but that isn’t about academics per se’.</p>
<p>I’d say that math and physics would definitely be more intense at U. of C than at Northwestern, but I don’t know about a humanities subject.</p>
<p>Over the last few years, Chicago has made a tremendous effort to improve the experience of its students. In particular, it has focused on increasing safety. I suspect that one reason it was seen as “less desirable” was its location in an area that was considered not very safe.</p>
<p>As for selectivity, Chicago has always appealed to a certain type of students, especially those not turned off by its reputation as the place “where the fun comes to die.” I, for one, hope that it maintains its identity.</p>
<p>Safety at UofC has been greatly helped by changes in the surrounding community, particularly the removal of much of the public housing. Used to be that not far north of Hyde Park, about 4 blocks north of Obama’s house, was one of the toughest neighborhoods in all of Chicago. The area is completely different now, such that it is safe to bicycle all the way downtown. The neighborhoods are now mostly middle class.</p>
<p>South of campus is similar. The only tough area remaining is SW of the campus. </p>
<p>UofC and Hyde Park are still urban neighborhoods. They are hardly crime free. But you are not at “great risk” walking home from the Reg (the library) in the evening to your Hyde Park apartment. The same can be said about Cambridge, MA or Berkeley.</p>
<p>The Robert Taylor homes used to border UChicago, and it was truly a tragic place, like a canyon of poverty and violence. </p>
<p>There is a fantastic book by a UChicago Sociologist, a grad student, called Gang Leader for a Day. His name is Sudhir Vendkatesh. He is either at Columbia or Harvard right now…I’m not sure. It not only discusses the differences in the tired methodologies, his unorthodox approach which had more to do with the heyday of UChicago grad work, and whatnot, but is a fascninating look at the end of the Taylor homes and the people who lived there and ‘ran’ the place, as well.</p>
<p>He did some amazing work, and the book is very, very readable.</p>
<p>The Taylor homes are gone, now, thanks to Clinton and Daley. Daley, who grew up in Bridgeport, has made the south loop and everything south of Chicago a massive priority over his time in office, which has been considerable for the main reason that he is a very effective mayor.</p>
<p>My family is from Chicago. I know Chicago. What I want to know is: what IS the difference academically between Chicago and Northwestern? How and why is the education better at Chicago? I just looked up the profs at NU (I had already researched the ones at Chi) in the fields I mentioned. They look pretty qualified to me, so what is the difference do you think, if any? This is not a trick question. I am genuinely curious what the people here who know UofC think.</p>
<p>Why is UofC considered “equal to the ivies” here? What is the difference between the academics at UofC and NU?</p>
<p>marite – Midway-Boston is now in place. S1 had made reservations to fly out for Splash in mid-November. </p>
<p>S is a math/CS guy…but they are separate departments. Of course, Chicago tends to the theory side, which means that a number of courses are X-listed with math, but that’s what my kid wanted!</p>
<p>JHS – we like the trip from DC to Chicago. It’s nice, uninterrupted time with S1, and it sure as heck beats driving I-95. S1 does love the 55-MDW-BWI circuit – he has never had a problem, and that includes the Sunday after Thanksgiving, two years in a row.</p>
<p>DH applied to Chicago for law school in for the fall of 1986. He was #1 on the waitlist, but they had so many deferred acceptances from the prior year that they never went to the WL. The Law School was so nice in the way they let us know what was happening that we had warm feelings ever after.</p>
<p>I don’t think there is much difference in academic quality between NU (where my spouse went!) and UofC. The difference is one of culture and approach, as has been heavily discussed elsewhere.</p>
<p>For the biological sciences, UofC has an advantage for undergrads in that the med school is part of the campus. This means undergrads have many opportunities to work in med school labs, as my D did all four years, a lab in the heart of the med school a 5 minute walk from her first year dorm. NU’s med school is a long subway ride to downtown Chicago by comparison. </p>
<p>By any stat, the two are comparable. But stats don’t account for the huge differences in culture and academic approach. Not better or worse, just different, which is why they attract different kids.</p>
<p>NU was the first school we visited, back when D was in 9th grade and we were on vacation, a single toe-in-the-water experience as prep for 10th- and 11th-grade visits of increasing seriousness.</p>
<p>TheMom was appalled at the degree of Greek participation, in excess of 60 percent.</p>
<p>MM: I have a lot of family connections to UC, went to NU grad school myself but took some classes at UC, and lived in Chicago for 10 years. I think all below about just different campus cultures is accurate. NU has a very different campus feel, athletics and Greek life have a role in both campus culture and alumni allegiance, and there is not the same integrated continuity between undergrad and grad culture. NU also feels more suburban (unless you are in law/med school–and even then it is North Side vs. South Side Chicago) and privileged even though I think the demographics of the student bodies are probably not so radically different. The whole no football, Great Books and “doesn’t everyone get a graduate degree?” ethos and zany sense of humor at UChicago just aren’t what happens at NU. There are indeed great profs at both places. For grad school, I think the choice would be all about the specifics of a given department. (and there is a way to cross-register for some classes…). For undergrad, I think Chicago has a more inviting, academic Hogwarts appeal and a more welcoming dorm/community sense.</p>
<p>Regarding safety, my son keeps telling me that the University of Chicago has the second largest private police force in the country. Or maybe it’s the world! (I think the Disney parks must be # 1.) And every time I’ve been there, there’s definitely a very visible police presence. Which doesn’t feel oppressive, at least to me.</p>
<p>The basic rule of thumb seems to be that the area is really quite safe if you don’t go south of 59th Street at night, or too far west of the campus.</p>
<p>The presence of Arthur Butz and J. Michael Bailey on the Northwestern faculty were more than enough to rule it out as a possibility for my son, both from his point of view and mine. Seriously.</p>
<p>Not to mention the fact that he didn’t want to go anywhere where Greek life or big-time athletics were of major importance.</p>
<p>Mummom, I think you have it backwards. It isn’t a question of why I think the U. of Chicago is equal to the Ivies (and better than some of them), at least for kids like my son who thrive in that kind of intensely academic atmosphere. That happens to be a near-universally accepted fact. The burden of proof is on you to explain why you <em>don’t</em> accept this, and seem so resentful and snide about it.</p>
<p>I know someone quite well who went to the University of Chicago law school, and whose son graduated from Northwestern a couple of years ago. I’m sure his son is as smart as just about anyone at the University of Chicago or anywhere else. And he did incredibly well at NWU. But he doesn’t necessarily eat and drink academics, and for that reason, his father told me he didn’t think that Chicago would have been the right school for him. On the other hand, from things I’d said about my son over the years, he thought Chicago would be precisely the right place for him. (From his knowledge, he thought Chicago and Swarthmore were the two schools most similar in that way, in terms of the types of kids they attract.)</p>
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