The Financial Aid System is Flawed

Paying for College
1

<p>I just can't believe it,</p>

<p>My parents came to this country a couple of years ago, with literally pennies in their pockets. I had pretty much zero money saved up for college, my family in debt for the recent house we purchased. Unfortunately, financial aid didn't give me any money at all, qualified for ZERO dollars. Of the few scholarships I earned, I still have to take out a loan for $20,000 per year to attend UCLA. </p>

<p>That's about $80,000 plus interest.</p>

<p>On the other hand, we have people who don't deserve the money at all (I suppose if I don't deserve it, they don't either). I don't understand how simply being poor entitles you to getting a $80,000+ gift. Most people I know, who were on financial aid, also got a bunch of easy scholarships (since most scholarships require financial need, but don't ask if they received any aid yet) which made them even more money - a lot of the time, these people make more money than they already need. </p>

<p>Most people I know on financial aid at UCLA were able to buy the ridiculously overpriced dorm rooms... for example, one of my friends on financial aid had a single room in the premier dorm - Hedrick Summit, that costs 27,000 (with the most expensive meal plan), versus my triple room which cost me 17,000 (and I had to share with 2 other people) with the cheapest meal plan.</p>

<p>Where is the logic in bombarding these people with money so they can buy excessive luxuries? </p>

<p>Where is the logic behind this? Since we will both be getting a UCLA degree, what prevents a poor person from getting a loan like I am? The only difference between the poor person and me is that they will have their education paid for in full, yet I will have to pay for it myself. Where's the logic? </p>

<p>Also, I have talked to people on financial aid. They always complain that without it they wouldn't have been able to afford to go to college. Huh? I don't understand. I have to pay for my college in full, and since I don't have any money I have to take a loan. What is stopping people on financial aid from getting a loan, besides the fact that they would love to freeload?</p>

<p>This system is flawed, and I am bitter.</p>

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<p>If you didn’t qualify for need based aid…here is the logic. That poor person can’t pay for college and presumably your family can. Your family, if they are not poor, can also perhaps help you pay back loans when you have graduated, and they can also take out loans to assist you. Poor people can’t do either.</p>

<p>UCLA is an excellent school and you will likely enjoy your time there. But there WERE less expensive options that you could have pursued that would not have put you in debt. </p>

<p>Many (if not most) college students who don’t get need based aid are in debt with mortgage (house) costs. </p>

<p>I’m not saying that the financial aid system is perfect, because I’m not sure it is. HOWEVER, the way it works is very well documented and should not come as a surprise to anyone applying for financial aid.</p>

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<p>You’re going to borrow $80K for college?! </p>

<p>Wow.</p>

<p>Not IMHO a good idea, at all. You think you’re bitter now? Just wait until you have an entry-level job and are trying to service that much debt.</p>

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<p>The financial aid system is flawed as is every system. There are just too many exceptions to rules to catch all of them. Too much administrative, political mess to make even tiny changes, much less large ones to the the flaws in the system. I agree with you that the system has some inherent flaws that are unfair to those caught in certain situations.</p>

<p>However, you have not given us any reason why you should be complaining as to why you are getting no aid. I see many, many poignant posts from kids who are truly “shafted” by the system. One young man has a family EFC that just misses the Pell limits, so all he is being offered by his state school is the subsidized Stafford. For his family and for him to take out loans is a big financial risk. He really should commute and go a local state school, working part time, as perhaps you should. But I truly sympathize with him, as he does come from a family with demonstrated need that does not get met by his own state school.</p>

<p>You, on the other hand, have been deemed as coming from a family that can pay your college costs from what you are saying. What is unfair about that? Do you fall in a pocket where it is truly unfair, or have you just crossed the line of affordability? How on earth can you know what other family’s financial situations are? Basically if your family makes an income that is considered able to take care of college costs, they need borrow the money to pay it if they are locked in a situation where they can’t pay it out of income. Many,many families are in that situation. They may be in a house or cars that are just too much for their income to have any left over. If the reason is medical or other urgent reason, this is something you need to bring up to the college financial aid office, and your EFC can be adjusted accordingly. With the info you have given, it does not seem to be an unfair situation.</p>

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Are you a US Citizen?</p>

<p>FWIW - financial aid looks at current income and assets - they could care less about the past.</p>

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<p>Jade, what was your FAFSA EFC?</p>

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<p>My Fafsa EFC was 29 grand.</p>

<p>And none of you guys make any sense.</p>

<p>If I am able to take out a loan, what’s stopping someone who is poor from taking one too? Read: we’ll both be at the same level of debt with the same college degree. What makes the poor person deserve it more?</p>

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<p>It is a philisophical point that those deemed to be able to afford something pay for it. And those that can’t afford something that is a public good be given help to achieve their potential. The problem with systems is that they can be gamed and abused. Theoretically, others didn’t have the advantages that you have in your family situation and therefore need more help to attend. The actual picture may or may not be clear but they only look at a snapshot in time to make their determinations. That’s an administrative optimization as it would be quite expensive to go back through a financial history for a family.</p>

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<p>How much are your parents actually contributing? As your EFC exceeds the COA at UCLA, it’s of course no surprise that your family is receiving no need-based aid. Based on what you wrote, it sounds like you are planning on paying for this coming year using a $20k loan and some scholarship money. </p>

<p>Did your parents have expectations about how much they would be paying each year for your college education? In other posts, you’ve mentioned that your parents were unwilling to pay for OOS or private schools, though with your family’s EFC it might have actually cost less to attend a private school with generous aid. Surely your parents must have thought that they’d be paying a certain amount each year, even for in-state public. They might not have been expecting to have to pay the full amount, but most families go through the same clash of having the FAFSA exceed what they feel they can afford. At the same time, most families do manage to come up with a significant portion of the expected contribution. </p>

<p>You don’t say, but I assume that your parents will be co-signing your loans. A family with a very low or 0 FAFSA may not be able to get the types of loans that you could.</p>

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<p>Your parents, who clearly, from your EFC, are making a good bit of money, are, according to the government, available to pay for a good portion of your tuition ($29K-student contribution). I realize that may or may not be true, but they are deemed to be in a better position to do so than someone whose parents make, say, $30K/year.</p>

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<p>Jade…your EFC (expected family contribution) is in EXCESS of the cost of attendance for you at UCLA. That is why you didn’t receive any need based aid. With that EFC, your family income is somewhere in the $100,000 per year range, give our take a few thousand dollars.</p>

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If you’re asking why a student with EFC $0 deserves grant aid more than one with EFC $29,000 then you’re probably not going to get much sympathy here. I think we collectively tend to use EFC as a definition of who deserves need-based grant aid. </p>

<p>Loans are typically a relatively small component of the total COA. The student with EFC $0 cannot finance her education by loans alone. Grants are also required, and, I think, deservedly given.</p>

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<p>Jade, there really is not enough out there for families who cannot afford college. Your family EFC is $29000. Even with that, you are eligible to take out unsubsidized loans, as everyone is. However, you would not be able to borrow enough to go away for college without a co-signer. Someone whose family is low income may not have parents who are eligible to co-sign as they do not have the income to take out such amounts in loans. A family usually is making less than $20K for them to qualify for full Pell grant which is not even $5000. That barely puts a dent in the cost of UC costs. It is very difficult for such families as they do not make even as much as your family FAFSA EFC! They are not able to borrow enough to pay for college.</p>

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<p>The system is flawed, this is true. Like you have pointed out, there is no real means of accounting for former poverty in a family that would prevent the possession of an assumed amount of savings for school. </p>

<p>However, as someone who has grown up in poverty, I do not consider myself to be freeloading. I don’t know how your school’s financial aid works, but I know that in my state, even with a zero EFC at state schools, in addition to scholarships, I still got gapped. I ultimately chose a private school which I was able to attend, not because of excessive financial aid, but instead, because I got a really good scholarship there.</p>

<p>In total, I would say I received maybe 11-12k in grant money from the state and federal government, nearly half of which I was only eligible for because I chose to attend college in state. Next year, I will have loans, I will have to choose more economical room and board plans, and I will have to curb my spending in order to keep as much extra cash on my college account for following years as possible.</p>

<p>As for said easy scholarships based on financial need, there were only two available in my local area that accounted for need. Both asked for other scholarships and financial aid sources, and despite my extremely low family income, I only got one which was a nonrenewable $1000. </p>

<p>Personally, I think that if you do in fact know these people who are attending schools at the nice dorms for free, you, for one, might be wrong about whether loans are in fact a part of their financial aid package (they are a hefty part of mine) and whether and elected to take on a little extra debt to live more comfortably. In addition, you don’t know their qualifications for various outside scholarships. They might have been, in fact, more qualified than you, perhaps using their lives’ hardships in their essays, which you probably could have very effectively done as well. </p>

<p>People who grow up in poverty are not freeloading. They have had very difficult lives, and for being as academically excellent as they must be in order to even get into the UC system OOS, I think they earned every penny of that scholarship money.</p>

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<p>JadeLi:</p>

<p>UC finaid is not great for anyone. Unless your “friend” is a Regent’s scholar, s/he will not receive a free ride. Nearly every UC finaid package includes ~$9k in self-help; this includes those with zero EFC. Thus, at best, your friend will be need to pay approx. half of his/her education.</p>

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<p><a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools;

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<p>BB is correct, most of the kids I know at UCs, even with $0 EFC, meaning the qualify for full aid are gooing to have about half loans in their package, so that is half of your amount right there.</p>

<p>Yes there is some merit, regents, chancellors, alumni, etc which could replace a portion of loans, but a “full ride” $0k EFC package at a UC is usually going to have a significant percentage as loans.</p>

<p>Also, you should be careful taking what any one says about their “package” as being accurate. We all know people who say their kid got a full ride (implying merit $) to an Ivy, which only operate on need based. Some people wil consider the loan part of a full ride, others will not add it into the mix. Unless you have seen their tax return and their finaid offer, you cannot believe their representation is entirely accurate.</p>

<p>There are obvious inequities in the system- you have a brand new home with no equity, your neighbor has lived in their home for 25 years- both homes valued at $1 million, but your neighbor’s is all equity. FAFSA has decided not to count equity, if you were attending a Profile school your neighbor would be expected to access their equity.</p>

<p>Your income level may be relatively new and you have not yet accumulated savings, but the FAFSA formula assumes you will continue at that income level anbd your parents should be able to pay off loans.</p>

<p>You are right, their are inhernet inequalities, but don’t buy the “how great my deal is” stories as fact, people exaggerate for effect and may not be telling you the real story.</p>

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<p>The financial aid system is in place to force families with a 29K EFC to think outside of their own selves and save for college rather than buy a new house or car.</p>

<p>Financial aid is meant to 1. subsidize a student’s education, 2. attract students the college wants. It’s not a gift.</p>

<p>Furthermore outside of a few colleges, very few poor students go to college for free. Even with a EFC of 0, students have to take out loans and work to afford a cheap state college or the few generous top colleges. At every other college, even the poor are gapped thousands of dollars per year. And unlike those with a EFC of 29K, they likely don’t have aunts, uncles or hidden assets to cover the difference.</p>

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<p>I agree with those who said that you really don’t have a clue what is in the other person’s financial aid package. My in laws recently told me about their friend’s granddaughter who is supposedly going to an ivy on a full scholarship. I had a hard time convincing them that such a thing would be impossible … but it is exactly that. People can tell you anything they want. You won’t know the difference unless you see their award letter … and even then, you don’t know what is truly behind that award letter. Sometimes people appear better off financially than they really are.</p>

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<p>Harvard refers to its financial aid as “scholarship,” so if this student’s parents’ income was less than $60,000, then she would indeed go there “on a full scholarship.”</p>