The Freshman Who Lied Her Way In

This is the entire pt. It isn’t the transcript. If a transcript service simply formats given info, they aren’t affirming or adding value to anything. They are nothing more than record keepers via data entry. If it is an accredited program or a program that oversees and approves courses, that would be more like an umbrella or cover school providing an overseen transcript than a simple transcript service. Covers, umbrellas, accredited online schools–they typically fall under different categories within the homeschool laws in the different states. (Some states have multiple laws governing different options. There isn’t just a single “homeschool law.”) This is why I keep saying this is not really about the transcript.

ETA: Notice that the student’s application was revoked bc of fraud. This has nothing to do with preparedness. Homeschoolers are admitted bc universities know that they have a history of excelling at their institutions. Homeschoolers are not easily quantified or defined bc there are as many different homeschool scenarios as there are families. But if they were such laggards that they could only handle 10pt quizzes, UR wouldn’t have admitted the student as a homeschooler in the first place.

^^good clarification

My two oldest were homeschooled through high school. I made their transcripts using a school transcript format. They each took a few AP classes and electives at public high schools. I also have 3 younger kids who graduated from a competitive suburban high school/2 still in school. Tbh, my schooled kids did WAY more work in high school than my homeschooled kids, who were somewhat “unschooled.” But their standardized test scores were all very similar.

Fitting work that is “less structured” into a transcript that meets the admission requirements of colleges–for # of credits of English/math/science/social science/foreign language, etc. is always an issue for homeschoolers. Many homeschool parents agonize over transcripts–wondering if they need to include textbook titles, reading lists, a portfolio of work, etc. to prove exactly what their kid was doing for 4 years. This is why some homeschoolers enroll in umbrella schools or transcript services–so someone else will write the transcript. Other homeschoolers use fully accredited correspondence or online schools that grade their students’ work and are much more like regular schools. There are all kinds of homeschoolers out there. Unfortunately, many look on homeschooling with suspicion (this sort of incident doesn’t help. . .) or only see its negative stereotypes.
Admissions officers, by necessity, usually look at homeschoolers’ standardized test scores above all else. My kids had no questions asked about their homemade transcripts–which contained mostly As. But they had excellent standardized test scores to back them up. While some might roll their eyes at a homeschooled kid with a 4.0 given by mom, there are plenty of schooled kids with merely average SAT/ACT scores matched with high GPAs, too. When scholarship money is tied to GPAs, there is even more motivation to keep grades as high as possible–and, while this can be done through hard work–pressure from parents, unwritten school policy to help out its own students, teachers seeking popularity/positive evaluations, etc. are also factors in grade inflation. This is why we have standardized tests.

What motivated this student/her parents to fake her transcript? She had the test scores to get in. She was trying to hide something – poor grades or behavior. I’d like to know more about the motivation of the staff member. ( If I were a staff member who saw something on FB, I might shrug and think,“I don’t recall her applying there…” and it would go no further.) Did the student have serious issues that made the staff want to dig into this/report her/get her kicked out? I’d bet there are a whole bunch of “transcript irregularities” out there, but most go unnoticed.
One question that came up in comments on the article was: “Is this really fraud?” (thinking like a lawyer here. . .:wink: ) What was the student doing in 9th grade, before she attended this school? Was she homeschooled then? Could it be said that her enrollment at the school was part of her homeschool program? While colleges ask applicants to “provide transcripts from all schools at which they were enrolled,” could homeschoolers say that the only school they were truly “enrolled” in was their homeschool? And the parents could list courses taken elsewhere on their transcript (whether to simply avoid the bother of requesting multiple transcripts-- or to change grades/hide issues. BTW, I realize that most homeschoolers value these outside transcripts and are happy to have them as “proof of work/achievement”).

A homeschooler (or anyone who claims to be), if he/she has the appropriate standardized test score for a college, could type up a transcript that meets the college’s requirements, send in his/her scores, take care of any additional requirements (essays/recommendations) and be accepted. If the student has the scores/can do the work/pay the bills, should the college care? If transcripts can be so variable, grade inflated, unreliable, or just plain fake, should they still be required? (I do think they should.) Yes, the student/parents cheated at this game. It was completely wrong of them. They could be horrible people. But maybe not. The game is broken in a lot of ways. I’d have to know more about the situation before I’d condemn the student to any further punishment. I hope she is able to continue her education elsewhere.

@Mom2aphysicsgeek

According to your own link, the interview isn’t a mandatory requirement, but an optional one that can further enhance an applicant if done well.

Makes sense considering both an older relative and a HS buddy who attended UR and are alums were admitted without having done the interview.

In short, it’s very possible the student who was found to have lied was admitted without having requested the interview.

Also, some folks are very good at putting on convincing false fronts in face-to-face interview settings. If that student had an interview, good possibility she might be one with such “talents”.

No dice.

All the college applications I’ve seen clearly state that they required ALL transcripts from institutions in which courses were taken/attempted.

This means if a student was taking some courses at another school under the aegis of their homeschooling, they’d be required to send the transcripts from those schools.

Some HS classmates taking college courses to fulfill our HS’ academic requirements(i.e. 3 years of Math regardless of how far one was advanced) were required to send transcripts from all colleges from which they took their courses.

When a classmate in the same college advising section asked if they could leave those transcripts out and rely solely on the HS transcript, our college advisor clearly said no. All transcripts from courses attempted/taken at other institutions must be requested and sent out from those institutions in addition to the HS transcript…no exceptions.

And since fee waivers were available for such purposes, no one could attempt to plead lack of finances to try getting around it.

@cobrat what years are you talking about? Your HS classmate would have been admitted to college in the mid 1990’s. An “older relative” would have been admitted before that.

That’s over 25 years ago…so what applied to theses folks might not actually apply now.

And this student claimed to be an homeschool applicant so an interview could have been required.

this is listed for homeschoolers applying to UR. Does NOT sound optional NOW.

Again…this woman was not homeschooled…but pretended to be. The whole application must have been a huge charade.

Maybe another thread can be started about homeschoolers…and how they grade and how they create transcripts. Really…that is not related to the dishonesty this applicant presented when applying to this college.

@cobrat Hmm. I thought dd’s application page had those listed as missing items until they were submitted, but I may be misremembering. That was in the fog of last fall… I thought I remembered all of those as being required, not optional.

Sorry, but wondering if this gal is an international at a US prep.

It doesn’t matter if she is international…or domestic…she lied. She said she was home schooled when she actually attended an actual school.

That’s dishonest…regardless of your nationality.

@thumper1

According to the quote from @Mom2aphysicsgeek, the interview isn’t mandatory, but an additional option one can request which could enhance one’s application. If that’s the case, UR’s policy regarding interviews hasn’t changed from the time my HS buddy or my older cousin applied and were admitted successfully.

Especially considering it was listed alongside “peer recommendations” which are almost always optional with the few colleges I know who have them.

Good thing too as IMHO, this works against those who aren’t social butterflies/popular and in some HS environments, gives some students a tool to undermine other students in the misguided perception it will increase their own college admission chances.

Incidentally, the HS buddy who went to UR felt the entire concept of peer recommendations for HS students applying to colleges was “dumb” despite being popular enough that he’d be flooded with offers of such recs if he wanted them.

Given the information from the article posted in OP, there’s an equally likely chance this student is a domestic native-born US student at a US prep…

My point, @cobrat is that YOUR information is over 25 years old…and posters need to know that.

Regardless…this gal lied…she lied…and that is what got her unaccepted. This charade went deeper than just a transcript.

Cobrat, I’m just dumbfounded that no matter what topic is being discussed on CC, you have a cousin or former classmate who has experienced it! Really, what are the odds?

@thumper1

Irrelevant as according to that quote by @Mom2aphysicsgeek, the interview is optional, not mandatory as was the case when my HS buddy applied and was admitted.

And I mentioned it because there’s a distinct possibility the student who lied may have been admitted without having requested an interview which would have reduced one step she needed to take in her attempted deception.

It was also meant to respond to comments implying an interview was mandatory for successful admissions outcomes to UR.

Thumper, i was not excusing this for an intl, nor missing that it’s fraud. I’m questioning the drive behind this, the desperation. It’s no simple matter to fake an entire app pkg. Maybe UR messed up. But she apparently went to great lengths. Considering so many top performers can’t pull together a great pkg, wondering if the drive was so high it included some pro advice.

Cobrat, I agree comments about something long ago, experienced by some 3rd or 4th party, can take us away from the heart of the convo, distract. And may not apply since those days.

Interview or no, doesn’t matter. Yes, if she had one, she’d have needed to be prepped. Again, considering how even top kids flub, I’m idly wondering what resources she used, what coaching. And I apologize, but we know some places around the world are accused of rampant fraud, so desperate is the need for prestige.

Some can be naturals and need little/any preparation to pull off a successful interview even as a 17-18 year old college applicant.

For a subset who are inclined to deceive the interviewer, it may not be much of a stretch to put on a false front. Such folks are often said to have great prospects as our future less than honest politicians, PR, or marketing & sales.

Would be interesting to see what information is revealed in followup reports on this case.

Cobrat, so what if some are naturals? This one created a fraudulent app and needed to be on her toes. Let’s not argue my guess she had help.

Have read most of the posts here. @thumper1 - I believe you are correct in your read/interpretation of the REQUIREMENTS for home-schooled applicants to U of R, posted by @Mom2aphysicsgeek . It clearly lists 3 categories of REQUIREMENTS, the first of which appears to be largely objective/program of study descriptions, including things like tests scores, the curriculum, transcripts and a personal statement, and the third being GRADUATION REQUIREMENTS. The second are:

The way it reads is that the student must request an interview (in one of the formats offered). It sounds like it is up to U of R if they choose to or not to interview a student. Sometimes there are reasons why it can’t be completed, so it is at the SCHOOL’S discretion if they will complete it or not. It sounds like they do require the student to request an interview, and my guess is that this is arranged the vast majority of the time for homeschoolers, but will not penalize the applicant if the interview cannot be completed for some reason. I welcome input from current homeschoolers/parents of current homeschoolers who have direct experience to respond.

College admissions processes and requirements frequently change year to year. Heck, they even change in the middle of an application year (e.g., a few years back, Hofstra went test optional in the middle of the application process- in Nov. of 2014 for the class entering in 2015). To try to reference decades old anecdotal tales as relevant to current application processes, especially without referencing how dated/outdated the stories are, can be harmful to readers (especially new members or those who may not visit the site often) who are looking for current information to help with their current application/admissions process. The old stories may be both irrelevant and inaccurate, and can be detrimental to the CC community. While yes, caveat emptor may apply, readers here also have a right to hope/expect that information they read bears some semblance to reality. And, they should ALWAYS go to the college websites directly to confirm that the information is accurate and current.

@lookingforward I have also wondered if there was some sort of admissions counselor giving advice and packaging. Last yr on the homeschool forum, a student said something about being advised to apply as a homeschooler to help her chances. I’ll see if I can find it.

I’ve known enough properly sociopathic people in my life to have no problem believing that someone could barefaced lie their way through an admissions interview, and not even feel like they were working hard to do it.

At this point, we’re going on the extremely limited information provided by OP’s article and some speculations such as wondering if the student in OP is an international is far beyond the scope of the info provided within the article.

And yet the one who advanced that unsupported theory is getting far less flack for it. Interesting how the biases of some commenters here work…

I searched and couldn’t find the post I was thinking about.

@jym626 I am really trying to remember, but it seems to me that it showed on her portal as completed or not. The only thing I remember for sure being optional was a writing sample or something like that that Dd opted not to submit.

In terms of college admissions, does subjective = optional or does subjective = not objective? I am pretty sure they were required, but I cannot state that I am positive they were. But, that wording makes me wonder why it is listed as subjective, not optional or recommended.