The General Consensus.......UCLA, UCSB...and more

[phobos]

<p>SoCal "boiling hell"...what the hell? LA tops out at what, mid-80s and that's on an abnormal day. in the city i live in (Oxnard, about 60 mi. north of LA), it tops out at 78 or so. i've been to NorCal on several ocassions, it seems pretty cold to me, but it's not icy by any stretch of the imagination...maybe just being in California in general we're spoiled by our overall moderate weather haha.</p>

<p>and as for Berkeley...my sister went to UCSC and works at Stanford...when i asked her if i should apply to Berkeley first thing she says is "eewww" hahaha. she went on to say that more or less the student body was pretentious and carried the whole "i am more righteous (in whatever) so i am holier than thou" vibe. also (at least in my case), the engineering department has the reputation for being hard as nails on their students. and besides that, the student body is enormous and the school doesnt really make an attempt to make the undergrad experience any easier or more personal.</p>

<p>UCSD...it was essentially my top choice until i saw my financial aid package to USC :P if i took cost into account, UCSD was my top choice...take money out of the consideration, then it clearly became a compromise for me...i wanted a school with a good mix of social life (arts/cultural events, accessible indie/rock music scene, numerous hangout places, parties, etc) and academics. UCSD had a minor close enough to what i wanted as well as a strong engineering department, but UCSD lacked a lot in the social life department, and the campus didnt seem as interesting. basically, i got the feeling of "this is ok, i can take this for 4 years...but it's not my first choice." i can still say, if USC weren't so generous (i'm going to USC for many other reasons as well though), i would definitely have gone to UCSD.</p>

[hellothere77]

<p>davis is too small?? umm buddy...davis is the largest uc campus. it's HUGE and still expanding. they just built a second football field dear. i have noo idea what you're talking about. and ok i agree that it's fine to take location into consideration when choosing a college. but don't depend on it too much. davis is a true college town and it's very biiiggg and very green. it has realllly good food too. and it's clean. and the bay area is not too far from it. see...there's more to it than just cows. don't just look at one dimension of something...that's what i'm saying. and yes people in northern california in general are very liberal. and ok..so you see a few people protesting on the streets one day in berkeley. it's not something that will be in your face 24/7. just like there won't be a cow on every street you turn onto in davis. it's better to visit the actual campuses and see how an actual college runs for yourself rather than making petty stereotypes.</p>

[College_3]

<p>I meant the city of Davis, not the campus.</p>

<p>I've realized UCD is a very balanced school, but there is no way I would choose it over UCLA, UCSD, UCSB, SDSU, UCI, or Cal Poly. It just doesn't appeal to me. </p>

<p>Location may not seem like a big deal to you, but along with academics and atmosphere, location is the next thing on my list.</p>

<p>It may just be me, but I couldn't enjoy college if I didn't like where I was living, and since these schools have similar academics and atmospheres I would have to choose UCSB or UCSD over any school, bc I want to be at the beach and any new information on UCD or UCB is going to change my attitude about this situation.</p>

[vicissitudes]

<p>
[quote]
And Berkeley - too many liberals, people protest way too much, and the city of berkeley is nasty so why would I consider a school I would hate to be at.
[quote]
</p>

<p>Too many liberals? Sorry to tell you this but college students are liberal. Most Universities have very liberal people. I don't think the number of liberals at Berkeley is that much greater than other schools you listed. Did you know that one of the biggest clubs on campus is the Republicans club?</p>

<p>People protest way too much? Maybe in the 60s. Now it's died down a bit. I hear maybe a major protest once a month or something. By the way, other schools have protests too.</p>

<p>If you visited and don't like the city though, that's understandable. Location is a pretty important factor.</p>

<p>
[quote]
she went on to say that more or less the student body was pretentious and carried the whole "i am more righteous (in whatever) so i am holier than thou" vibe. also (at least in my case), the engineering department has the reputation for being hard as nails on their students. and besides that, the student body is enormous and the school doesnt really make an attempt to make the undergrad experience any easier or more personal.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think to describe the student body as pretentious is a pretty bad over-generalization. If you think Berkeley students are bad go take a look at some Stanford students. The truth is that at any top schools there will be some pretentious people. But hey, they have a right to gloat. By the way, how does she know so much about this student body if she never attended there?</p>

<p>
[quote]
also (at least in my case), the engineering department has the reputation for being hard as nails on their students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Which engineering department doesn't? It's just a hard major.</p>

<p>
[quote]
and besides that, the student body is enormous and the school doesnt really make an attempt to make the undergrad experience any easier or more personal.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, UCLA has an even bigger student body so by this logic it's even worse right? Just so we're clear. It seems like some people hold a preference towards places like UCLA over Berkeley because "Berkeley is too big and impersonal" when UCLA is even bigger. Plus, places like UCSD and UCD are so large in land area that it's not as "personal" in that the people are spread so far apart.</p>

<p>I will say this though, people have complained about its beaucracy and the staff can be impersonal. But I think this occurs at other UCs too and less at private schools.</p>

[DRab]

<p>
[quote]
haha, I wouldn't want to spend four years in Bezerkeley. I grew up much too close too it. Southern California is way better, warmer weather, more laid back, great beaches (that you can actually use, because its not cold and foggy all the time).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This sounds like something a really knowledgable person would say, one familiar with both areas really well.</p>

<p>:rolleyes:</p>

<p>
[quote]
SoCal "boiling hell"...what the hell? LA tops out at what, mid-80s and that's on an abnormal day.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>LA =/= SoCal, and that topping out is often much higher over the past years.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USCA0638?from=search%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USCA0638?from=search&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And even though San Francisco isn't really in Northern California (any person who looks at a map can see it's almost in the direct middle third, height wise), it is often considered to be in "NorCal." Something to compare if you wish.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USCA0987?from=search%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USCA0987?from=search&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
she went on to say that more or less the student body was pretentious and carried the whole "i am more righteous (in whatever) so i am holier than thou" vibe.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I find it amazing how one person can know more than 20,000 people. She sounds quite righteous herself.</p>

<p>
[quote]
the student body is enormous

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Unlike UCLA . . . :rolleyes: Berkeley has more smaller classes than UCLA.</p>

<p>
[quote]
and the school doesnt really make an attempt to make the undergrad experience any easier or more personal.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, none at all, as I'm sure you're quite familiar with its programs and general situation.</p>

[phobos]

<p>
[quote]
LA =/= SoCal, and that topping out is often much higher over the past years.

[/quote]

yeah, but the schools in consideration here arent in the valley, the Inland Empire, or desert. so for comparative purposes, i feel that's an accurate reference point. and as i said, if you're from California, its easy to become spoiled by what weather you have. i've lived in Southern California my whole life, my family has lived in Southern California (all the way from San Diego to Oxnard) over the last 24 years, my dad worked in Northern and Central California and for the last 12 years (which is much of my life), my sister's been working there for the last 6 years. i know California as well as most people out there, i dont need the lecture.</p>

<p>hey, the question wasn't why she didnt consider UCLA, it was why she didnt consider Berkeley. look that over again...</p>

<p>i know UCLA has a bigger student body, and i also know that on that same path of logic, the undergrad experience as far as administrative qualities go is also less pleasurable. as a description of large student bodies at public schools in general...i loved the UCLA campus and the programs they offered seemed nice dont get me wrong...but i dont feel like not getting advisors when i need them, not getting the classes i need, not getting the help from professors when i want them, the list goes on.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I find it amazing how one person can know more than 20,000 people. She sounds quite righteous herself.

[/quote]

[quote]
Yes, none at all, as I'm sure you're quite familiar with its programs and general situation.

[/quote]

humans arent able to explore EVERY single aspect of everything. as such, while i agree everyone should at least make the effort to find out as much as they can by themselves (as in this case...what programs each school offers, the people at a school, etc.), all people must rely at least to some degree on others' experiences and research. my best friends are going to UCLA, UCB, UCD and several other schools. their experience has helped me establish what their schools are like. but i wouldnt use just their information as the sole basis of my knowledge base. from talking to people who attended the schools, reading the school's literature, reading from others' published thoughts, and reading around here i've also been able to establish opinions. obviously, they couldnt be perfect, but again, i'm not able to attend every one of the schools or able to spend the lengthy amount of time it would take for me to form those more detailed opinions...it's not reasonable, and just not possible. so others' views, especially those views from people you trust, either greatly from love and familiarity or moderately because of intellect and experience, will have to suffice. their views can't be so wrong as to lead you astray into trouble. it cant be the only source of info, but it shouldnt be ignored either.</p>

<p>also, just because there are exceptions to trends, that doesnt mean the trends cease to exist...campus populations can often fit some kind of outward characterization. obviously once you delve into that population, you start to realize and associate with such exceptions making them seem more significant and partially dissolving stereotypes and characterizations...but that doesnt get rid of them. stereotypes, as negative and bad as they seem most times, must come out of some truth and large scale trends.</p>

<p>you go to Berkeley...obviously your views lean in that direction. so maybe your advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt as well...i realize you need to defend your school and that your opinions are completely valid, but there's an obvious bias nonetheless. i go to none of the schools in consideration and i really feel no overbearing sentiment toward any of them, other than that they're all strong schools...</p>

[sweetdream]

<p>so between UCLA and UCSD which one is more friendly? Which one is more diverse?</p>

[DRab]

<p>I agree, if we are comparing the weather in two particular cities, certainly one to the other is fair. However, you (or whoever) was being far more general.</p>

<p>
[quote]
hey, the question wasn't why she didnt consider UCLA, it was why she didnt consider Berkeley. look that over again...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I’m aware, and got it the first time.</p>

<p>
[quote]
but i dont feel like not getting advisors when i need them, not getting the classes i need, not getting the help from professors when i want them, the list goes on.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As much as I’ve heard horror stories in various settings, I’ve only heard complaints a very few times. Anyway, many of these things happen at private schools as well (does anyone actually think private school kids get every class they want? If most of your classes are capped at small numbers, good luck getting into them.) </p>

<p>
[quote]
humans arent able to explore EVERY single aspect of everything. as such, while i agree everyone should at least make the effort to find out as much as they can by themselves (as in this case...what programs each school offers, the people at a school, etc.), all people must rely at least to some degree on others' experiences and research.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree.</p>

<p>
[quote]
it's not reasonable, and just not possible. so others' views, especially those views from people you trust, either greatly from love and familiarity or moderately because of intellect and experience, will have to suffice. their views can't be so wrong as to lead you astray into trouble. it cant be the only source of info, but it shouldnt be ignored either.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The thing is, you’re talking about the most up-to-date things, the hardest to keep a track of when you’re getting information through people who get it through people who get it through people, and literature which takes months to publish. I don’t expect you to be omniscient. </p>

<p>
[quote]
stereotypes, as negative and bad as they seem most times, must come out of some truth and large scale trends.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not necessarily. They can come out of some very, very minimal truth and very small general trends. Heck, they can be completely false. Have you not heard the quotation, I believe by Stalin, that a lie told often enough becomes the truth?</p>

<p>
[quote]
you go to Berkeley...obviously your views lean in that direction. so maybe your advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt as well...i realize you need to defend your school and that your opinions are completely valid, but there's an obvious bias nonetheless. i go to none of the schools in consideration and i really feel no overbearing sentiment toward any of them, other than that they're all strong schools...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Honestly, my views lean in that direction? I’m not quite sure what that means. Any person’s advice should be taken “with a grain of salt,” and I don’t need to do anything. Bias, bias, bias. Along with my bias, I’ve also read and investigated things a lot more, and am aware (more so than many) of what is going on. I’ve heard the mistruths, the overstated generalizations a thousand times and then some more. I know more than most where the truth in them is, to what extent they are accurate. I defend my school when it deserves it, criticize it when it deserves that. I am not some blind follower and loyal supporter regardless of what happens. I have many ties to UCLA as well if that makes you feel any better. I have ties to the UC system in various ways. Such is life. I think I’m pretty darn fair if you ask me. Perhaps I seem hostile or zealous because I’m sick of the same mistruths and falsities being perpetuated and repeated, and sick of other people’s ignorance and lack of information. Your sister really judged more than 20,000 because of whatever she heard or experienced? Doesn’t that sound a bit absurd?</p>

[phobos]

<p>
[quote]
As much as I’ve heard horror stories in various settings, I’ve only heard complaints a very few times. Anyway, many of these things happen at private schools as well (does anyone actually think private school kids get every class they want? If most of your classes are capped at small numbers, good luck getting into them.)

[/quote]

i didnt say it didnt happen at private schools, i'm sure it does. some of my classes at USC next year have 200 people. i couldnt get into a film studies GE (but i suppose that's expected haha)...oh well, i just went for Ancient Greek Society, no biggy. but by virtue of state funding, academic resources flucuate with the state economy. while i'm certain they won't provide an absolutely horrendus undergrad experience, they are pretty limited in what they can do. and two words: impacted major. if i attended UCSD (my other top option), my first choice major of EE would be impacted, and just the idea that i might not get my first choice, though not the end of the world, is pretty undesireable wouldnt you say...</p>

<p>
[quote]
Not necessarily. They can come out of some very, very minimal truth and very small general trends. Heck, they can be completely false. Have you not heard the quotation, I believe by Stalin, that a lie told often enough becomes the truth?

[/quote]

i think college prospectives, especially those to UCs, some of the top schools in the nation, are more intelligent and skeptical than farming peasants/factory workers...</p>

<p>stereotypes may not always be bad, and they may not always be completely true, but many usually hold some facet or origin of truth. especially in this society, where you can't easily pull the wool over someone's eyes. i get the "asians are smart and geeky" stereotype all the time...it bugs me, sure, but given the attitudes of many asian parents and especially immigrant parents, i can see the origin of that.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Your sister really judged more than 20,000 because of whatever she heard or experienced? Doesn’t that sound a bit absurd?

[/quote]

maybe it's the crowd she associates with, the indie rock crowd, which often carries with it a pretentious attitude. regardless of where i went, i would probably have some association with them, so i took her advice from that perspective. </p>

<p>and as i already said, while there may be exceptions, and often times large and prominent exceptions to the rule, it is usually possible to attach a type to a body of people. for example, i dont think many would argue that the city of San Francisco is more liberal than other cities. and as i said, getting a breadth and depth of experience can change a person's perception of a group, diminishing or eliminating the general stereotype. example...my high school was recently built at the edge of what's seen as the gang, violence, and drug ridden sector of my city. everyone thought the school would be the same. from my perspective and my experience, it wasn't bad at all and i didnt see much of it personally. but i wouldnt argue that gangs and that sort of violence were nonexistent...they had them for sure. but on the same token i still wouldnt tell someone not from my school that gangs and such had a dominating position in the school.</p>

<p>so while my sister's experience may be far narrower than someone who actually attends the school, and that i know if i had the experience i would also perceive many things as "mistruths," i still trust her judgment to a degree.</p>

[DRab]

<p>
[quote]
but by virtue of state funding, academic resources flucuate with the state economy. while i'm certain they won't provide an absolutely horrendus undergrad experience, they are pretty limited in what they can do.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And what of the great shift from public funding to private funding lately? I'm sure you've been keeping track of that, haven't you? You said you're familiar with what's going on at Berkeley. Clearly it's somewhat supportive of state funding, but that "somewhat" is being reduced year after year.</p>

<p>
[quote]
and two words: impacted major.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Because these also don't happen at private schools? Sure, you didn't say that explicitly, but you pointed it out in the UC system as if it's unique. Good luck transferring to film if that interests you (amongst other disciplines at USC, I would guess such names as many art fileds, engineering (although I imagine you're in that), architecture, and business, amongst others, if you aren't accepted into those programs ahead of time.). Ever hear of UPenn? Plenty of kids are out of luck when they try to transfer into Wharton from other colleges on campus, and their engineering program. It happens at many places, but single out the UC system if you wish.</p>

<p>
[quote]
and just the idea that i might not get my first choice, though not the end of the world, is pretty undesireable wouldnt you say...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, I agree.</p>

<p>Again, if you can't see that some stereotypes come out of very, very minimal truth, some come out of very small general trends, and some come out of hatred and/or ignorance, then I would urge you to investigate more stereotypes. I agree with your sister, some students I've met at Berkeley are pretentious. I really don't think that's the rule in any regard. When you find a vast array of exceptions to a rule and very few examples that fit within it, you need to start rethinking the rule. </p>

<p>I wish you and your sister no ill will or malice, and the the two of you the best of luck.</p>