<p>Fourth paper down:</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>Then again, if your heart prefers Bowdoin, go there. these are both very top schools, you can be veru successful from either.</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>I never said go to Williams. I am just saying Williams is the better school. A guy in my high school class chose Bowdoin over Yale, but he recognized Yale was the better school. You should choose whatever is the best fit for you, and visiting both will tell you that.</p>
<p>This just in from the Bureau of Beating a Dead Horse:</p>
<p>If you check the web sites of these 2 schools, you'll find that about half of the Americans at Bowdoin are New Englanders. Whereas Williams has a more national enrollment, with Mid-Atlantic and California students being far more numerous than New Englanders.</p>
<p>Not surprising, given that Williams is much closer to the NY/NJ axis around which we all know the private college world revolves. If you buy the concept that those from NY/NJ/PA/CA would tend to be a little wealthier and more aggressive than your stoic New Englanders, it might confirm the OP's suspicion that Williams students are a little richer. Also might explain why Williams grads tend to gravitate towards the top grad schools more than the Bowdoin folks (as opposed to them just being smarter or better educated). Finally, if the colleges are roughly equivalent in quality, and you wanted to go to a top grad school, why would you choose Williams, which seems to have already saturated such schools?</p>
<p>I still think the various rankings like US News' are handy for rationally narrowing the choices, but the FINAL choice should be made much more on emotion, personal preference, and fit. Making the final choice on rankings alone is sort of like if you had a choice of spending 4 years on a desert island with Jessica Alba or Scarlett Johansen, and making the choice based on who's higher up on the "Maxim" Hot 100 list.</p>
<p>My two cents. First, you can't go wrong with either choice. At my d's high school, Bowdoin is where kids with their heart set on Williams go to if they don't get in....and are very very happy there. Just visit and go with your gut. However, my d is probably going to go to Williams (deciding between Williams and Duke) because she likes its jocky reputation which I don't think Bowdoin has. In fact, it was the only LAC she applied to.</p>
<p>I'm going to agree with slipper here. </p>
<p>You have to look at FACTS such as the % of grads that Williams boosts into top grad schools.</p>
<p>1st and 6th in this case does have somewhat of a difference, just like 1st Public (Berkeley) vs 6th public (William and Mary).
Both are TOP schools but Berkeley and Williams gets the nod even though Bowdoin/WilliamandMary are not that far behind.</p>
<p>That's a pretty interesting use of stats, AA. I'm surprised you didn't say that 1st and 6th have a big difference if you consider just colleges that start with the letter "T": Texas, Tulane, Texas A&M, Temple, Tennessee, Texas Tech.</p>
<p>A factor that distorts all stats is that Williams is about 3 hours from NYC, and Bowdoin is about 6 hours. That doubling of the distance alone would make a lot of the Mid-Atlantic folks prefer Williams.</p>
<p>When I was in high school near Boston, I don't remember even one person mentioning Williams or Amherst. Bowdoin, Colby, and Bates were popular. That doesn't make them better. I think proximity and perceived proximity have a lot to do with it. To people in NY/NJ, Western Mass is like next door, whereas Maine is at least 3 states away. To people in Boston, Maine is a quick ride up the coast, and the Berkshires are somewhere out west.</p>
<p>If you read other threads, you'll notice that I have a family connection with Williams that goes back decades. I played on its fields and swam in its pool before most of you were born. I even swam in its pool before it went co-ed, back in the days when it was the practice at all-male colleges that everybody swam naked (I'm not kidding, look it up). So it's not like I have something against Williams. I even just bought my daughter two Williams T-shirts for her birthday. But the nit-picking of stats in the way you guys are doing is just ridiculous.</p>
<p>Oh, and here's a quote from the Bowdoin section of the Fiske Guide to Colleges 2006: "Rates with Amherst, Williams, and Wesleyan for liberal arts excellence...."</p>
<p>I'm not sure I understand your "T" analogy but it is true Williams is more "prestigious" among grad school placement just as Berkeley is considered a bit more "prestigious" among public schools than William and Mary. </p>
<p>It is not a "popularity" contest such as with your high school experiences but rather the actual stats such as Williams being a top feeder school into top grad schools.</p>
<p>Re the "T" analogy: you referred to the difference between #1 and #6 of the STATE schools, as opposed to #1 and #6 of the National Universities. I'm perplexed as to why you would extract the state schools and then point to the gap between 1 and 6.</p>
<p>There are so many factors that could explain away differences in top feeder stats. I've already mentioned some of them...wealth, craving for prestige, location, etc. Maybe the Bowdoin grads aren't as wealthy, and go to grad school at whatever college gives them a good deal, rather than the "top schools" which mommy and daddy from Long Island will pay for. A wiseguy could even say that maybe the Bowdwoin grads don't feel as much of a need for further education.... Whatever, if you have to reach that far into your statistical bag of tricks to claim superiority, I think you've already proven my point.</p>
<p>The reason is because most people are associating 1 vs 6 in terms of the National Rankings.</p>
<p>With both the LAC and State rankings, 1 vs 6 has a greater discrepancy than 1 vs 6 in the National ones. This was what slipper and I were getting to. </p>
<p>The wealth argument is not a very viable one as Williams has said half of its students are on financial aid. I agree there are other factors to consider but claiming wealth of students as a reason is quite unfounded unless you were to provide some stats in which I would gladly back down and agree with you.</p>
<p>Finally: Statistical bag of tricks? So claims such as Williams students having more money to get into grad school beats statistical evidence such as the Top Feeder Schools rankings? I don't agree here but I guess we can agree to disagree on that. </p>
<p>I don't have affiliations with neither school and I frankly could care less about LACs. They remind me of a high school beyond high school :(</p>
<p>I'm missing the point of extracting the state colleges and then pointing to the 1-6 differences. </p>
<p>If you read the fine print on the Williams financial aid stats, they offer financial aid to families who make up to $190,000 per year.</p>
<p>Oh, right. Yea my only point with the 1 v 6 argument is that 1 on National University (Harvard) is not very different from 6th (MIT). The discrepancy is minimal.</p>
<p>I am arguing that LAC rankings are like State rankings in that the DROP in prestige from rank to rank is a bit bigger since there are less top LACs and less Top State Universities. This is why the Gap between Berkeley vs W&M is bigger than the gap between Harvard and MIT. Similarily, I am therefore arguing that the gap between Williams vs Bowdoin is bigger than the gap between Harvard and MIT.</p>
<p>Simply, there are not as many TOP comparable LACs and State U.'s as there are National U's. I hope that made it more clear</p>
<p>"If you read the fine print on the Williams financial aid stats, they offer financial aid to families who make up to $190,000 per year."</p>
<p>I did not know that. :( Still I am undecided on whether it is true Bowdoin students are much less wealthy than their Williams counterparts.</p>
<p>I see your point on 1-6. Not that I agree with it 100%, but I understand why you did that now.</p>
<p>The $190,000 figure comes from the "Fast Facts" section on the Williams site. I doubt that means that the other half make OVER $190,000, but it is revealing that they consider families making up to $190K to be in need of a helping hand.</p>
<p>In a recent class, only 19% of Williams students came from households that earned below the national median income. I'm not sure what the Bowdoin % is. I'll be pretty embarrassed if it is lower. I think I'm out of gas on this topic. It's been a pleasure sparring with you, as always.</p>
<p>Likewise :)</p>
<p>As a New Jerseyan at Bowdoin, I find the practice of determining wealth based on their state of origin highly erroneous. There are plenty of wealthy people from "just outside Boston" or the Maine coast, just as there are plenty of people in small towns in upstate New York and Central-Southern New Jersey. Basing this perception of wealth on fin aid numbers is more logical, but can be similarly misleading.</p>
<p>I will go to Williams, simply because I heard only good things about it. Small class size, really caring professors, etc...Not heard anything about the filthy rich part.</p>
<p>I am going to Williams.</p>
<p>Best of luck with your choice! </p>
<p>Williams does sound like a great school.</p>