<p>There ARE intelligent students that go to non-top 25 universities. This is true.
HOWEVER, if you attend an Ivy or another top university, you're more likely to be surrounded by more of these people. Sure, it's nice to tell stories of intelligent people at CCs right now, but the thing is, that describes to great majority of say, the HYP student body.</p>
<p>I find that only 4 people here were smart enough to realize that IVY LEAGUE IS A SPORT CONFERENCE. LOL...</p>
<p>I think everyone realizes that the Ivy League is a sports conference, but they all happen to be some of the most selective universities in America, and do other things together (academically and socially) besides just compete in sports. Top students study and top professors research/teach at each of the Ivies.</p>
<p>I'd say.. Ivey's may not be best in all aspects, but a great education for sure.</p>
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you get what you pay $100k+ for free at the NYC Central Library
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<p>If you think like this, you should do just fine wherever you go.</p>
<p>About the peer group thing: I'd say that's probably the biggest advantage of going to a big-name school. If you go to, say, a normal state school, you can definitely still find extremely intelligent peers. You just might have to work harder to find them.</p>
<p>Ivies are so not worth it for undergrad level. Most of your classes would be taught by TA's. Ivies for grad school, however...</p>
<p>^^
Way to stereotype. What about Dartmouth and Princeton who barely even have TAs?</p>
<p>I really don't think you can generalize about the Ivy League. As other people have said, all they have in common is sports and being generally really good schools, but someone who loves Brown might hate Columbia (open curriculum vs. intense core); someone who loves Dartmouth might hate Harvard (liberal-arts undergrad-y, vs. famous for grad programs) and vice versa.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>Only HYP and UPenn deserves the Ivies Names?</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Somehow i can't help thinking "aviatrix10" is turned down by one of the "other four ivies"..</p>
<p>Rayando,</p>
<p>Unless you are talking specifically about Harvard, you have the logic precisely backwards regarding the Ivies. Most, especially Princeton, Yale, and Dartmouth, are renowned for their undergraduate education.</p>
<p>[url=<a href="http://www.tumr.com/view/?id=20&app=college%5DNash%5B/url">http://www.tumr.com/view/?id=20&app=college]Nash[/url</a>]</p>
<p>Actually I wasn't rejected by one of the other four ivies--I only applied to Cornell and Dartmouth (which happen to be two of those four that I think are overrated for certain things), and I got into both of them.</p>
<p>i agree 100% with aviatrix. the other ivies are just schools founded during early period of american history in a sports league with harvard, and there are MANY non-ivy schools better than those four (stanford, duke, mit caltech to name a few)</p>
<p>Most Ivy's concentrate on their undergrad.. Take brown for example - the total number of grad students isnt even equal to the number of undergrads in one year... All classes taught by professors, and class sizes range from 5 to 500 students.. </p>
<p>Also, the Ivy was a sports conference to start off with, but theres a reason why only these eight schools were included in it - they were the best schools, the most selective, and had the best quality of education. Even today, theres a reason why people apply to ivy schools as reach schools - they are recognised to be the best. Im not denying that stanford and mit are up there with the ivy's, but that doesnt mean the ivy's are any less.</p>
<p>Personally, id rate stanford as being as good or better then any ivy. Mit is just a different kind of school. Otherwise, the Ivy's are pretty much the top schools in the country.</p>
<p>All I'm saying is that the eight ivies aren't the best eight schools in the country. And as far being more focused toward undergrads, that may be true for some of the ivies, but Yale, UPenn, and especially Columbia (almost three times as many grads as undergrads) have more graduates than undergraduates. So to say that ivies concentrate on undergrads more than other universities is simply not true.</p>
<p>Yale, while having a large graduate student body, is known for providing its undergraduates with an excellent, LAC-like education. The numbers don't tell the whole story.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that they don't provide a good undergrad education--I'm just saying that they're just as focused on graduates as undergraduates.</p>
<p>What a silly thread. The foundations of philosophy (and science) were founded by thinkers who didn't even have a school. Buddha and Jesus didn't either, for that matter. </p>
<p>The Ivies provide a good education. Nothing more, nothing less. You won't graduate with a halo, but you will graduate with one of the best educations in the world. If you go to X State University, you may or may not get a good education. The Ivies are pretty much guaranteed to provide good educations. There are certainly many colleges that provide equally good educations. However, it takes a bit more effort to dig these out, and most people just aren't willing to take the effort. There's no point in bashing the Ivies because it is foolish to say they don't offer superb educations. However, it is also foolish to think that many schools don't provide equally good educations. I quote Ben Jones, who says it more eloquently than I can. </p>
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<p>So when a parent says to me, "Why does HYPSM put so much emphasis on AP's?" I reply "Why do you put so much emphasis on HYPSM?" When a parent says "My kid's value as a person/student shouldn't be measured by how many AP's he/she has taken" I say "...and your kid's value as a person/student shouldn't be measured by whether or not he/she goes to HYPSM." I could go on and on.</p>
<p>There are literally hundreds of amazing colleges and universities out there (some of which actually admit kids with no AP's!). Many of them would actually be better matches for your child. Many of them would provide your child with a better education. Most importantly, many of them would ultimately give your child a greater sense of happiness and fulfillment. The right match will do that.</p>
<p>And the match goes both ways. We try to determine if your kid is a good match for MIT. Your kid should be trying to determine which school is the best match for him/her. As a parent, what are you doing to help him/her figure that out?</p>
<p>Here's a hint: if you're spending time obsessing that a lack of AP's is going to keep your kid out of Stanford, you're missing the point.</p>
<p>As I told the kids in my blog, I had a wonderful college experience that I wouldn't trade for anything, at a school that is currently only #23 on the USNWR LAC list (The HORROR!). I got a phenomenal education and can certainly hold my own against any Ivy grad. As a bonus I got to grow up, get married, have kids, buy a house, land a great job, and enjoy life.</p>
<p>I took one AP class in high school.</p>
<p>Make sure your kids are choosing their schools for the right reasons. Name, status, "brand" - these are not the right reasons. Let your kids be kids. Let them follow their hearts. Encourage them to have a present, not just a future. Don't let them define themselves by which colleges accept them - and don't let them define themselves by doing things only to get into certain colleges.</p>
<p>The machine is fed from all sides. USNWR, the media in general, the GC's, the parents, the colleges and universities, the high-priced independent counselors, the test prep people...</p>
<p>My kids are still many years away from college, and I'm no expert on the parent side of this process. But I do know one thing: I will fight to protect them from all of this, to help them with perspective and clarity. Because if I don't, who will?
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<p>I love Ben Jones--my point exactly. You don't have to go to an Ivy to recieve a wonderful education, and just because you're a kid at HYPSM doesn't mean that you're automatically smarter than anyone who isn't.</p>
<p>I find it interesting as to how virtually everyone on this board fails to mention the nation's top liberal arts colleges, which are, in many cases, better than these "Ivy League Schools." Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Swarthmore, etc are paradigms of an undergraduate education where students buttress the validity of the Latin phrase liberales artes: that which should be known by a freed man. The students at those institutions learn to not only think critically, but they also enable a student to discover himself, finding his own life path. </p>
<p>The quality of teaching is exceptionally higher at these small liberal arts colleges in comparison to other larger universities. For one, there are smaller student/faculty ratios give the faculty more time to mentor individual students and grade term papers. Second, theres less pressure on faculty to bring in large research contracts, which work distracts faculty from teaching undergraduates. And third, theres involvement of undergraduate students in research programs, which is rare at big universities that have many graduate students.</p>
<p>The admission criteria are higher at these small liberal arts colleges. Williams College and Amherst College, for example, are more selective than Penn and Cornell, heralding the Little Ivy title. Actually, all of the aforesaid liberal arts colleges, with the addition of Bowdoin, Wesleyan, and Pomona are still even more competitive than Cornell. As for the other Ivies, with the exception of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, their selectivity is faintly greater. </p>
<p>After perusing through these boards, its evident that the majority of the students here are what one student calls prestige whores, yearning for brand names, albeit their true educational quality.</p>
<p>I wouldn't say that at all. Williams and Amherst are very popular on CC, and Swarthmore, Pomona, Davidson, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Trinity, Wesleyan, Oberlin, Vassar, etc. pop up with a fair amount of regularity. Once you get outside the US News top 25 LACs, though, I agree that they get a lot less attention than they deserve. Over on the Parents' Forum, you'll find a great deal of discussion about these "overlooked" schools.</p>