<p>I have visited both Yale and Harvard (decided to visit UPenn instead of Princeton simply becuase it was closer to the hotel) and I know that they are all amazing as centers for learning, but I'm not convinced that it's for me. Education-wise, I haven't heard any difference other than the rare one student to one or more teacher/graduate student course. The life is amazing, but I don't think I need all of that pampering. My match school is my state's flagship, U of Virginia.
I'm sure that most of the schools that I'm looking at will give me a great education and will help me enter the work force as long as I maintain being a hard worker and caring person. I don't want to call it pampering because I respect the institutions that care about their students and how the students have made the school their own, but what particular advantages in life will going to an ivy get me. I'm an upper-middle class, white, Ashkenazi, Jewish male. Yale was originally my favorite choice and I'd be a fair candidate, but what would I actually accomplish that I couldn't do somewhere else, like UVA, Boston U or U of Leeds (UK, which is an amazing school btw)?
It woudln't give me capabilities because I already have the means. It wouldn't give me pride in self and school that I couldn't have somewhere else. It woudln't give me economic or moral success, since that depends on the self and the luck of the cards. It doesn't give me influences that I couldn't get somewhere else because all of my schools are international. By all means, if you get into Yale or Dartmouth and you feel that it is best, then go, but if you have some clarifying advice as to what would make it the better choice for anyone in the mid- to upper-middle class, I would be glad to hear it.</p>
<p>Sorry that this is long, it's just a self-search.</p>
<p>It is true that ivy schools like Columbia or Yale may not necessarily provide a significantly ‘better’ education than other universities. However, that is not their main appeal. </p>
<p>In recent years especially, it has become increasingly more difficult to gain acceptance into the very ‘top’ schools. HPY-level schools are given the opportunity to choose the very best from their bloated, yet extremely self-selected applicant pools. More often than not, the mere admittance into one of these schools is a coveted testament to one’s ability. </p>
<p>Quite simply, one always expects the kid who went to Harvard to be smarter than the kid who went to the local state school.</p>
<p>yisroel, you have a very mature attitude, and you’ll do well anywhere, with your ability to see beyond the college name brands. Beyond the beautiful physical settings, and rich histories, the Ivys are indeed, just schools. They have some great profs, as well as weak TAs (or TFs), some overcrowded classes as well as small seminars. No perfection guaranteed. And there are large groups of students there who are riding on daddy’s reputation/legacy and money to snub the average or low-income students. (See Wikipedia articles on Harvard’s final clubs, Yale secret societies, Princeton eating clubs.) Despite all the financial aid incentives, there is an aura of elitism fogging the social atmospheres at the Ivies.</p>
<p>"nd there are large groups of students there who are riding on daddy’s reputation/legacy and money to snub the average or low-income students. "</p>
<p>I was among the need-based scholarship students at Harvard, and never felt snubbed by the students who were wealthy. I also never had any interest in the finals clubs so the fact that I wasn’t invited didn’t bother me. There were hundreds of other interesting clubs that I could participate in.</p>
<p>Also, all of the students at places like Harvard know that the students who are low income may within a decade or 2 be very wealthy and/or renowned depending on what career choices they make, so it would be very stupid to shun classmates because they came from a low income background.</p>
<p>Frankly, I see more snobbery based on income at the tier 2 public university in the city where I now live. Greek life is big there, and to go Greek requires lots of money.</p>
<p>At Stanford, I think the biggest thing I’ve noticed is the talent and enthusiasm of the other students. When I came to Stanford, for the first time in my life, I wasn’t “that kid who’s really good at math”. Instead, I was someone whose talent happened to be in math, among a group of other ridiculously awesome students, all of whom had their own amazing talents.</p>
<p>The best thing about an Ivy (or other top school) is that, for the most part, its the best success ticket you can get. The best recruiters come to the ivies, students place into grad programs at incredible rates, alumni are powerful, helpful, and educated. Most importantly you make friendships with an incredibly bright group of peers who tend to push you to new levels. Bottom line: the network, the recruiters, the grad placement, and even the education are unparalleled. If you have access to the brightest spots of learning and the highest saturation of talented students, it would be a mistake to pass this up in my book.</p>
<p>Anecdotally I’ve seen my friends who went to Ivies (and similar) do better (career-wise) than my equally talented friends who went to local schools on scholarships or in honors programs. The Ivy kids seemed to become much more worldly, whereas the students who went to our local state schools were unaware of the whole set of opportunities after school.</p>
<p>After 30 years in higher ed administration, I’m convinced that the most important asset one can seek in a college is the quality of the peer group. My D is a sophomore at Harvard. At the end of her freshman year, I asked her how the experience was. She said that if I’d asked her a year before whether she wanted to work that hard in college, she’d have replied “heck no!” But, she said, “when everyone around you is doing it too, it doesn’t seem that difficult - it’s just the norm and the culture, and you don’t really think twice about it.”</p>
<p>Its totally true. You get a peer group that is changing the world and making big things happen. You read about the spectacular things your classmates are doing in every alumni magazine. The people you socialize with regularly are always pushing themselves. You end up being far more worldly without ever even intending to do so.</p>
<p>its not so much the label of “ivy” i just like the idea of being at a school where the atmosphere is so intellectual, and ivy league schools, among others of course, offer that. It also offers connections into future job options</p>
<p>i would say the connections that you make…all of the students at the ivies are hardworking and exceptional in some way or another, so its a good crowd to be a part of moving forward</p>
there are more “purely intellectual” schools than ivies, like St. John’s, Swarthmore, or Reed. Of course, they also don’t contain any of the elitist snob like attitude like princeton</p>
<p>There are smart, talented students and excellent faculty at all of the schools that you prefer; you don’t have to go to a university that doesn’t appeal to you as much simply for the “name.” Go to a school where you feel you will thrive.</p>
<p>milkmagn, there’s intellectual, and then intelligent. they arent always the same thing.</p>
<p>anti-intellectual snobs are found in the ivies like elsewhere. As common wisdom and research both show, intelligence and drive will take a person very long ways, regardless of where they go to school. Similarly, much of the curriculum at an Ivy can nearly be matched in the top 100 American schools if you look hard enough. Many other factors in today’s world also make the academic excellence/preparation of the ivies not that special anymore. </p>
<p>However, I would make the comparison of first-tier universities to the idea of human intelligence. That is, the benefits are intangible but large. It’s mostly a kind of culture. Some highlights include confidence for working towards excellence, environment highly favorable towards knowledge compared to large universities more focused on selling football tickets, and opportunities for meeting likeminded and gifted people that greatly enhance your chance at breaking into the field you have a passion for.</p>
<p>One last negative factor of first tier education I’ll mention is the cost, most people at these places probably had large scholarship offers at other places. But as the adage goes, there is more to life than money. And traditionally, being at an ivy is about cultivating a rich experience, possibly one of the best in upper education. So while one’s life time accomplishment are not really defined by college diploma, going to an ivy generally gives a person a stronger personal base of growth that will serve as a strong boost in the future.</p>