Supposedly the justification for URM preference is because they are under privileged, i.e. poor and attend poorly funded schools. Wealthy Hispanic are not disadvantaged in any way. They attend the same schools as the “privileged” whites, why should they receive preference still?
How about class rank is MUCH less important nowadays than it used to be?
I would agree that isolated socioeconomic data on admissions, with and without race counted, would be useful. IMHO, that kind of data is being hid.
That is, does a rich URM have a better chance of being admitted than a poor ORM? (all things being equal)
@PurpleTitan, nice try, except the OP said the other kid dropped out of just about every AP class he took, as evidenced by his poor AP results (only 3 AP classes), compared to the OP stellar AP results. He got a 5 for AP Calc BC, that is arguably the hardest AP test.
I’m shaking my head as to how much denial some people are in.
Go back and read my post #93, I made the comment with ample qualifications about the URM being in the same SES and noted that uncertainty about any admission boost he may have received.
The spirit of AA is to provide benefit to some groups who may have been disadvantaged in the past due to social or economic conditions. I was pointing out that someone who has got past that and is in the same school and in the same SES does not justify getting continued advantage. Yes, there can be a mix of SES backgrounds in the same school.
As for the data on ethnic breakdown, go look at any college CDS info you care about.
How do you know this kid receieved preferencial treatment? He is in the top 99%. They are looking for many things at the schools. He sounds like he has far more people skills than OP. Do you even know his major? Maybe OP picked one that was too competitive.
They have 1400 seats to fill. They are not interested in having 1400 Asian male pianoists who want to major in CS. They want a DIVERSE student body. If you think that is wrong,go s omewhere else. Are you forced to apply?
How on earth do they know he has better “people skills” just by looking at his application?
Letters of recommendation and essays (not so much writing style as much as topics you choose to write about)
@johan123 This thread is only the 900th time that Hispanics and blacks have been belittled since Ivy Day.
They don’t want just the smartest kids. A computer could sort that out. They are looking for smart kids with that something extra. They don’t want 1400 white female ballerinas who want to major in English. 1400 Indian male engineers. They want all types of people who will go out and represent the school someday. It’s not a charity program. Even if they only choose from the rich they would want boys and girls, white, Asian, black.Hispanic.They don’t want a homogeneous class.
@iwannabe_Brown : that’s ridiculously subjective.
@gearmom : in other words, our elite colleges are not in the business of education, they are in the business of social engineering.
@fallcolors, and you’re being simple minded if you think the # of APs or class rank or GPA or standardized tests are “objective” measures of academic merit. There isn’t one type of intelligence.
They want a diverse population. They dancers, stargazers, poets, mathmetions. They want all countries, all states, all races and both sexes. They have to put fannies in the seats of all majors. They need to fill orchestras. They need many different things. You try to become part of it or you dont. But uf you don’t maybe you don’t have to be a sore loser. Maybe you don’t have to put down the schools callig them joes. Maybe you don’t have to complain about every kid you know with a darker skin tone and a 35ACT. Maybe you don’t have to belittle the hard work if the kids who did get in calling it just luck. Maybe people could simply be gracious and wish those who do get in the best of luck.
@gearmom : if you don’t believe in luck why are you wishing the admitted best of luck?
@fallcolors URM kids has a better ACT so let’s do this by pure “merit” URM kids wins. Done. It really wasn’t hard, why are you arguing?
@iwannabe_Brown : I agree there isn’t one type of intelligence, but our schools by and large only measure one type - the type that allows you to do well academically. That’s why they are called “Academic institutions”. In fact, once these kids enrolled, colleges continue to measure their academic merit through exams, grades and GPA.
“@gearmom : if you don’t believe in luck why are you wishing the admitted best of luck?”
You know a conversation us going down hill when it becomes so degenerate people don’t understand contextual meanings of word and start picking fights about silly things.
@dancelance : I’m arguing because I and CERTAIN that if the stats were the other way around, people like you will be arguing that standardized test scores aren’t the be all and end all, especially if it’s only by 1 point, and that GPA, class rank, AP tests, ECs etc. are much more important. The OP clearly beats the other kid hands down in all those other factors.
Really, check your bias please, people. Academically, the OP wins hands down, trying to argue that the other kid has a 1 point higher ACT score and therefore is academically stronger is just RIDICULOUS!!
Yes, Pizzagirl, I think when questions are invited and someone actually makes a statement that doesn’t make sense, an answer is owed. Why is there even a legacy pool when it is so unneeded with the offspring of Yale alums having such great stats that it’s every bit as good or better than the overall candidates? I think he walked right into that one. I suspect from answers given from here and there that there are about 1/3 the number of seats left after all the special interest pools are serviced at these top schools. I think transparency in these things is important.
emenya wrote:
Emenya,
You are an outstanding student, especially considering you achieved what you did without a wealthier family’s financial support or the guidance that comes from parents that attended college. While I consider the OP’s stats to be “better”, that is only in the context of what I assume is a better SES that the OP has.
It’s unfortunate that neither you or the OP could not get into your first choice colleges. You both would have been assets there, and I am sure you both would have succeeded.
.23 GPA is the difference between a couple few A-s or one B. @fallcolors arguing the contextual meaning of luck is dumb. Especially since wishing someone the best of luck is an idiomatic expression, where as luck on it’s own is a different animal. Um yes that is stupid, and more than thrice let me emphasize. Seeing you have no better argument resorting to semantics is dumb, nobody really cares.
Would you have said the same thing to blacks when they were fighting for equality? “Stop worrying about other people. Avoid that restaurant; you wouldn’t want to go anywhere that doesn’t want to serve you.”