Coming from one of the collective “most kids”, I figure I might as well offer my two cents. (should it not be too far out of place)
Alright. I agree 100% with @ThatPhysicsGuy in the rationale that a decent amount of kids APPLYING to Ivies are only applying because of rankings they have see on US News, Forbes, etc. Some of these kids come to CC to look at others stats (of this I’m a little guilty, but it’s there, right?) but it’s also made pretty clear that those who post their stats here are just a sampling of the population of kids who actually were accepted/deferred/denied from said Ivies. HYP and every other elite college for that matter reject 2400 SAT kids with 4.0’s ALL THE TIME. They love it. One of these kids could’ve been the next sandy haired janitor to solve a math equation put on the board by a math professor, but they lacked one crucial thing that truly matters to adcoms, and I’m sure you would all agree: passion.
The good news is that these “most kids” you speak of probably never make it passed the first round of rejection letters to these schools because luckily, their act is VERY transparent. It’s been pretty well documented here I’m a varsity golfer. I love it. It’s a sport I’ve played for seven years and I’d argue I’m pretty good. Maybe not Ivy League good but that’s another story. This year, about 10 girls (of various races, for that matter) joined our JV golf team, which is mostly reserved for freshman. They were seniors. Conveniently, indoor practice for us starts almost immediately in the school year, so they had enough time to sign up to put it on their application SCEA to H, Y, P, S, and other elite schools, respectively. They were near 2400 SAT kids with good ranks and good GPAs, but their act was so phony and they obviously joined to say that they had been on a sports time while in high school. Needless to say, they never showed up for a single practice except our banquet where (moí and a few others) received varsity letters and shirts. By then, they had all been rejected by their schools, and none of us has wanted anything to do with them since.
My point is, “most kids” is standing for a significant minority who yes, know next to nothing about the schools they apply to except for the name. But these kids are quickly dealt with, and I doubt they even make up .000001 of Ivy Leaguers EVER.
I think my position on the Ivy League schools is pretty well documented, so I will not go there.
I would point out, that the AP classes are much more valuable to the typical student…especially if it is for a field/subject for which the student has little or no passion.
If scores are good enough, you can avoid ever taking that course again
You may discover a passion that was latent
Even with lower scores, you get a foundation in a subject that you make need to take regardless of degree field
Success on even a few AP exams (I am talking 3s or 4s here, not over-achiever 5s) can save you and your family hundreds or thousands of dollars in tuition. It also raises your ‘class’ status which leads to earlier registration times. That can be crucial for some programs in getting the class you need to graduate on time.
S1 took 55 AP credits into college. Most were not in his chosen field. He hit the ground running in courses directly related to his major. I’m not sure if all students realize this, but majoring in something does not mean you get to exclusively take classes in that. Almost every college requires a core curriculum that includes courses across the academic spectrum. D1 is a rising senior and she already has 9-12 credits. She will likely be a semester ahead of her peers who ‘had fun’. I have two very different students, but both are taking advantage of the AP program. I wish it was available to me when I was their age.
@Torveaux This what I mean you basically saying that a student should take APs that she isn’t interested in so that she can be a semester ahead, while her peers have fun. You say this as a good thing these are kids life isn’t just about who gets the highest sat score. When S1 grows up she will probably regret not actually enjoying her childhood.
@ThatPhysicsGuy I disagree. Not having to take those courses in college and thus being able to take a wider range of electives means a more interesting and less stressful college experience. While others are slogging through those boring basic courses the person who took them as APs can have fun and enjoy college more.
OP: it’s too bad you’ve not been around kids who actually love to strive and want to milk their HS curricula for the toughest courses. I took the toughest AP courseload in the history of my HS – and I wanted more. I had a “life” and thoroughly enjoyed my HS years. But I was an extremely hungry learner – and this was evident in my applications, rec letters, personal statements. While I was extremely successful in my college applications, I didn’t do what I did for them. Frankly, this probably helped. Perhaps you’ve only seen grade-grubbers and test-whores. It certainly doesn’t seem you’ve witnessed the kids who could bust out amazing writing, score 98s across the board in a variety of classes – and possess utterly amazing personal lives. I met those in droves at my ivy alma mater. Frankly, you decry and rant about things you do not know.
Certainly to presume that Torveaux’s kid is harboring resentment based upon the singular fact that he achieved a ton of AP credit is beyond absurd and typical of your logic on this thread.
Fun Fact: My son got his heart set on Yale because of the way they structured the Residential Colleges. He wanted a place where he could become familiar with friends. He didn’t groom his resume, or strive for status. His second choice was Truman State University in Kirksville, MO. Yale said ‘Yes’, and was more affordable.
Ivy League schools are cool, striving for admission because of reflected status, maybe not.
How about the students interested in what Ivy League students have to OFFER and not their prestigious statuses? And hasn’t it occurred to you that maybe their prestigious statuses reflect the kinds of environments that students would be willing to spend their whole lives striving to be a part of?
Lol. My kids have had great lives. S1 could probably have pulled a 3 in almost any subject without prep. He coasted in classes due to boredom. He loved the challenge of getting a 5. He never missed anything he wanted to do because of studying.
D1 is more social, but still has a 4 and a couple of 3s. The kids are smart enough to understand that HS has its moments, but they would rather be able to have more fun in college or as adults.
I didn’t bother reading the rest of the comments, but this is laughable!
Firstly, as an employer myself, one of the first categories I look at is college and education. If it says “Harvard graduate”, there is very little chance he won’t get the job. It means he is smart, qualified, and motivated.
Secondly, my own personal Ivy League aspirations spawn from the battle I’ve always faced in building up rapport. It presents quite a challenge when I’m attempting to solicit donations
without rapport. Going to these highly selective and top schools does just that. To many, going to, say, Harvard means the person’s ability and intelligent is top notch!
Thirdly (is that a word?), some jobs often times recruit from these schools and it presents a very challenging, to say the least, to get jobs out of “lesser schools”. For example, look at where investment bankers come from. Usually, it’s these top schools. Wanna know what’s more interesting? You say graduate degrees are what matter right? How do you expect to get into Wharton business school if you don’t have competitive work experience (which you need to attend a good school to get) and a good undergraduate degree?
I read a lot about how students shouldn’t try and mold their lives into Ivy League applications, while I agree with it, it’s often way over dramatic!
You definetly should do everything in your power to make the BEST grade and achieve the highest gpa, even if that means not going out with your friends the night before a test. It’s your grade. It’s your education. It’s important.
The more you study for your sat, the more you will learn. It’s honestly not difficult to grasp that concept right? As high schoolers, we do NOT know everything and we often to take out education for granted. We need to use all of our resources to the fullest.
I d not, however, recommend stretching yourself too thin. There is a balance. Contrary to seemingly popular belief, the balance should be tilted towards your education and not toward socializing.
@KavinWHS35: I believe you’re oversimplifying to the other extreme. Just because an “elite” college appears on an applicant’s resume doesn’t mean auto-accept. Perhaps in your limited time hiring people for your limited charity ventures, you can afford to be so cavalier.
That veers with the business world. To me, it can answer some basics and I can make some assumptions but a common negative for Ivy grads coming into the workforce is that they over-estimate how much their pedigree can and should move them. The entitled and snobbish “elite” college grad will get bypassed by the sincere, motivated, team player with relevant work experience who possesses a diploma from a “lesser” school 99% of the time. You might want to re-evaluate your hiring standards as you progress in your own business/career path.
And the further one advances in his/her career, the door-opening ability of one’s alma mater diminishes over experience and connections.
You’re correct that some industries favor “elites” – whether they be Wall street/consulting for undergrad or MBA programs or Law Schools. That’s undeniable. Some businesses have limited recruiting efforts and may drill down to a select few feeder schools where they’ve been successful in the past. But this
is a grand overgeneralization. Real people don’t genuflect at ivy degrees. Some fields draw from schools wide and far – simply b/c other schools’ reputation for that field is vastly superior than an “Ivy”. A CalPoly, SLO architecture undergrad diploma will fling open doors. One from Harvard? Much less so.
@T26E4
"a common negative for Ivy grads coming into the workforce is that they over-estimate how much their pedigree can and should move them. The entitled and snobbish “elite” college grad will get bypassed by the sincere, motivated, team player with relevant work experience who possesses a diploma from a “lesser” school 99% of the time. "
This is also a highly inaccurate caricature of graduates of ivies and other highly selective schools.
hzhao: I don’t bypass any candidate. But I’ve come across my share of “elite” degree holders who, either out of hubris or false confidence or whatever, don’t display the proper perspective when applying for the job. I’ve certainly had the pleasure to work alongside some great ppl (from “top” schools). But I’ve also seen some otherwise strong resume candidates fail to deliver