The Journey: Avg Stats Kid who needs big FinAid

College Search & Selection
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To begin, I want to thank the CC collective for being an incredible resource in the college hunt. As my son and I began this process and discovered CC in the spring of '19, we have refined, re-refined, and re-re-refined our plan again and again. If I knew then what I know now, we’d likely have added a couple more schools to the mix. But, on to the story.

On CC, it is easy to get lost in the fog. There are so many HYPSM threads about high achieving students that a parent (or maybe only me?) might think this isn’t a place to discuss regular stats kids. On CC, it sometimes seems regular stats kids score 1350-1480 on the SAT, have 4.1 GPAs, and consider top 41-90 schools to be safeties. Personally, I consider that a high-stats student. The HYPSM kids and others applying to top 20 schools are the exceptionally super high stats students.

IMHO, regular stats kids are more like my S. IMHO, Regular stats kids have SAT scores in the 1050-1250 range. Regular stats kids have GPAs in the 3.1-3.6 range. Regular stats kids have not been trading on the stock market for 3 years, have not started a business or non-profit, are not D1-D2 recruited athletes, have not participated in published research.

Regular stats kids belong to a club or two. Regular stats kids maybe play one sport or two, or participate in the theater program, or have a part-time job, or be in the band, or spend a lot of time with their girlfriend/boyfriend or friends … just hanging out, not trying to save the world or cure cancer.

Regular stats kids can need some aid, no aid, or full aid. It’s great that some families can be full pay, but for most families in America, there will be hard financial restrictions. Not the sort of restriction that can be “stretched” for the “right” school, but a big fat red line drawn in the sand that simply cannot be crossed for any school.

I say all that to sort of lay the basis for what this thread is about. It’s about one specific family’s search for the right college for a 2020 high school graduate.

I’d rather avoid responses that want to overly debate whether or not applying to out-of-reach (stats and/or finances) schools is a good idea. The ground rule in this thread is: As long as true safeties are on a student’s college search list, it does not matter if 100 super high reaches are also on the list. You may not like that for whatever reason, but please start another thread if you want to spend more than one post debating against that opinion.

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POST 2 - IT BEGINS
My son’s stats are very average for a HS student who plans to attend college. His GPA is in the lower range of 3.0-3.6. His SAT is in the range mentioned in the first post, 1050-1250. He plays one high school sport and one sport outside of high school. He plays two instruments. He reads well, but doesn’t read a lot for pleasure. He writes well, but doesn’t write a lot for pleasure. He’s not a STEM whiz kid. He has a good friend network, no enemies, and, by his senior year, was a recognizable face by most students at his large HS.

Finances aside, S’s self description of his perfect school – what he wants in a school, not necessarily what his stats or our finances guarantee – would be Wake Forest, Fordham, Baylor, U of San Diego, Miami, Gonzaga. His perfect school would have a mid-sized enrollment (5K-15K,) be a fairly diverse school, with good sports spirit, access to a city, and coursework that is at least somewhat rigorous. His perfect school would have a good business and/or econ department.

He’ll bend on any of those factors. He’ll accept a school smaller or larger, though he feels anything under 2500 might be approaching the land of “too small” and under 1500 would be unbearable. In the beginning, he felt he would rather err on the side of too big than too small. He’ll accept a school with no real diversity if it checks all his other wishes. The school does not have to be recognized as “great” in business or economics.

The elephant in the room is Finances. The bottom line is I’m not going to pay $30K, $25K, or even $15K a year for college. It might generally be assumed that would limit S to in-state publics, but we’ve never laid back and accepted spoon fed solutions. Our in-state solutions include several options he could get in and I can afford. However, son wanted options and a plan was developed to provide options.

So began the big college hunt. Without getting into details, we applied to dozens of college. We applied early, often, and later. We applied to in-state publics, OOS publics, Ivies, top LACs, HBCUs, co-op universities, schools in CA, MN, FL, the NE Corridor, TX, and many places in between. That said, being in NC, our focus was the east coast, from Florida to MA.

While we included some true safeties (stats and financially,) the vast majority of these applications went to schools whose middle-50 SAT was at least slightly (or significantly) above his score, or whose middle-50 GPA was at least slightly (or significantly) above his GPA, or, as was often the case, both were above his stats. We were ready for many rejections, but what we needed was enough acceptances to form a good pool of affordable options to provide S with the opportunity to make a good decision.

How did that work out?

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I will be interested to hear how it worked out in admissions, but I am also interested to hear how it worked out in terms of getting your son to write the essays and do the applications for dozens of college applications*…

*none of our lot managed to get even one dozen out the door (maxed out at 10). How much did you spend in application fees?! did you get a lot of waivers?

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Essays: I had him start early. This plan really started to take form back in Spring of his Junior year in 2019. Once school got out for summer, I reminded him to get to work on the essays. He got a couple banged out, then lagged. Application day seemed so far away and he thought he had forever to get it done. It took a lot of reminding on my part, but he got them all done.

After looking at so many applications, we realized there are really only a few variations of the same types of prompts and essay topics. A few schools have unique prompts (seemingly for the sole purpose of ensuring applicants write a school-specific essay only for them) but we were able to use the same essays (and prompt answers) repeatedly. Sometimes he had to modify a little, but that never took much time for him.

Fees: Yes, we received a lot of waivers. One way we got waivers was apparently to request information from the schools. We began requesting information or simply making contact with universities around March of '19 and continued throughout the summer. Most of the private schools (and many of the publics) ended up offering fee waivers. All of our in-state publics waive fees if the student applies at the right time.

I had to pay for SAT scores to be sent and that began to add up. But at $12 a pop, that was a lot more affordable than having to pay dozens of application fees of $50-$80 each. Also, many schools accept self-reported test scores for application purposes.

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@EconPop I’m so glad you started this thread. As the Pell-eligible parent of kids ranging from “average excellent” (both attended Haverford) through “average” (similar to your son) to below average (76 GPA, SAT 820, ACT 17 with accommodations), I really appreciate the relatively rare CC threads focusing on great kids with less stellar stats and families needing substantial financial aid.

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ME TOO! Early in my CC time, whenever I spotted a thread (or even a comment) like that it always caught my attention. I wish there were more.

But I understand that it may be a little … embarrassing (likely not the right word) to say “we need money” or “my kid has a 3.3 GPA”, when every thread is about academically exceptional all-stars, often from full-pay families. A lot of parents don’t want to put their numbers out there.

But hey, we need help and advice, too. :smiley:

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We would need some idea about your EFC. Trying to get below $15k can be greatly impacted by your EFC. It is very different if you are looking for only merit aid or looking for schools that have good need based aid for at least some. Also, are you including student loans and self help in the 15k or is that being added on top making the total more in the 22k range? Just trying to make sure that everyone understands you situation for those who are trying to replicate it.

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I’m not necessarily looking for suggestions for us personally. It’s kind of late in the process for my son to apply to new schools. He’s graduating high school this year and I’d guess most application deadlines have passed. That said, if you know of a great option that fits us where it’s not too late to apply, let me know! However, if you have suggestions for schools we should have applied to, I really want to hear them – it may help others in the same situation.

This thread is more of a gathering area for families in similar situations to learn from the process my son and I have gone (are going) through. A place where others in the same situation can add their two cents. A place where “experts” in the larger application and college experience sphere can chime in.

But for us specifically, we are a Pell family. Single custodial father, 3 kids, 1 starting college in fall '20. The only loans considered will be the ones my son is eligible for – $5500 freshman year. I can match that (out of pocket) each year if needed, but I’m hoping to avoid going that high.

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@EconPop as a Pell Grant eligible, average-below stats (according to CC standards) transfer I want to thank you for taking the time to share your sons experience. In hindsight, I wish I had researched a little better bc costs and requirements associated with this process were all new to me being first gen. Unfortunately, counselors seemed to be as ignorant as myself. In the end I’m comfortable with having applied to what I felt were two safeties and the rest reach-high reach. There were only so many waivers allowed (that I knew of without inquiring directly to schools) and I certainly could not afford additional application fees plus keep up with the crazy COL in my area. Nor do I have extra time on my hands to cure cancer, create five non profits before dinner plus volunteer at ten+ places. Jiminy Crickets. When do some of these kids get to be kids?! Mind boggling.

I’m certain plenty of schools would love to welcome your son. I wish him all the best moving forward and I’m sure he’ll be successful no matter where he attends. Good luck!

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I just think that R&B at colleges is the killer with this. There are just so few colleges that have R&B < 11k . . . . and those that do could be far away from you, and are in rural areas that serve their local state’s population.

what did you find with room and board on your search? any schools that allowed you to opt out of on campus housing as a freshman? any that allowed you not to chose the board portion? (although cooking for yourself as a freshman boy wouldn’t be fun, I think your kid could save a lot there . . . .)

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Thanks for the thoughts, @SatanFlower69 .

One of the big disappointments is the guidance counselor angle. Not “disappointing” in that I expect GCs to be able to provide the extra attention needed from students in this situation, but disappointing that there really is no adequate assistance available to these kids and families.

My son has a friend who has been part of an organization that does a great job assisting first-gen kids through this process, starting as early as 10 years old. What I’ve found is that while they do a great job, they stop short of fully expanding the options. Whatever the kid’s stats dictate is a certain match, that’s there they recommend. They don’t reach to get a kid into a school. The same for GCs.

I’m not criticizing these organizations or high school GCs. Some are doing a great job and exceeding their capacities. I respect their efforts very much. I’m just lamenting that more isn’t available. Like you said, the students and parents simply do not have the knowledge or often do not have the time.

What school did you end up in? I hope you were happy with your choice.

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POST 3
RANKINGS

When I speak of rankings, unless otherwise noted, I’m referring to USNWR. I point that out so no one gets confused by assuming another list is in use. We used several other resources, but I’ll stick to the USNWR list when I mention rankings, unless otherwise mentioned.

None of the top-30 ranked schools on our list offered admission so far. We did not expect that they would, but, in our opinion, it was worth a shot because the highly-ranked schools mostly guarantee to meet full need. An example of a school in this category is Duke. It’s in our home state, S has been to the campus often, so on the list it went. In fact, it was our original ED application. Duke says they give an extra boost to ED applicants, and Son figured it was worth the ED burn to raise his odds from 0.05% to 1.5%. When ED decision day came, Duke did not defer or waitlist him, they outright rejected him, as did almost every college in this category. A couple deferred him, but he knew better than to hold out hope. These were longshots and the decisions were in.

Schools ranked in the 31-79 range were, for S, also high-reach destinations. It was still worth a shot in our opinion because many meet full need, officially or unofficially, and many fit S’s criteria. For instance, UNC would be a financial fit anyway because it is an in-state public, but they also meet full need. George Washington U became a favorite for son, but he knew they didn’t guarantee to meet need … and though GWU is test optional, the stats were still a reach for him.

80-120: This is where we figured his true bar was set. These were the low-reach to mid-reach schools that really tickled his fancy, and where there was more than a random hope for an acceptance. NCSU, American University and Elon were big targets from day 1. Drexel, Howard, U of AZ were desired choices we figured might say yes but not provide enough FinAid.

121-250: This is the real meat and potatoes of the accepted realistic acceptance options for my son. U of the Pacific and Duquesne were two favorites in this category that we ended up not applying to for some reason. I wish we would have. We did apply to schools like U of Dayton, Hofstra, U of NM, ECU. This is where most of his safeties came from, and he was admitted to nearly every school in this category. Two surprising rejections were UNCW and UNC-Charlotte, which as in-state non-elite publics, we thought were a virtual guarantee.

250+: There were a few applications here, mostly in-state publics to round out the true safety list with actual financially possible schools. 100% acceptance rate in this category.

LAC: Liberal Arts Colleges, from #1 through #?. This was a category that evolved significantly as the process progressed. It wasn’t a targeted category in the beginning, partly because S set his original minimum-enrollment limit at 5K, partly because only a few of these schools appear on the lists we originally used to compile S’s target list, and partly because we both need an education on the full range of LACs. In the end, S applied to quite a few in this category. The larger ones appealed to him more than the smaller ones. We expected that most of the highest-stats ones would reject him, but that many of the others might accept him.

PS - I had a few of these posts saved and ready to post. I’d hoped to get this off to a quick start. I hope it’s not too much too fast.

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This sounds like the KevinfromOC thread redux :slight_smile:

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Except KevinFromOC’s child was an extremely high stats student. Self-described as “top 1%” student. Needed FinAid but had high stats. If my student was a top 1% student, this would be a completely different thread, because he’d have numerous of no-cost acceptances from top 100 schools.

Still, CC needs more of those threads, at least from the need FinAid angle.

Edit to add: The more I review the Kevin From OC thread, I realize there aren’t many similarities. High Stats student. Family with 6-figure income, not a Pell family. Nope, no similarities.

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@EconPop transferring Fall 2020 so waiting on majority of decisions. First hurdle is being accepted then its a matter of affordability.

Had what I sincerely hope was my last encounter with counseling today requesting college reports filled out for Duke and Vanderbilt. First thing I asked during the appointment, “Are you at all familiar with the Common App process?” Answer - “Not really, but I think I can figure it out.” Then it was her dashing back and forth between me and two other counselors attempting to “figure it out” and none of what I overheard was encouraging so I will likely have to take more time off work to follow up on this situation later.

Crossing fingers for an acceptance to UNC CH, Vanderbilt or Duke but I’m content with the fact that I will likely be attending UCD.

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You mentioned your son applied to HBCU so I am assuming he is a URM. Did you include Howard on your list? I have seen some amazing aid packages from there.

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@SatanFlower69 , we became Common App and Coalition App near-experts during this process. It’s too late now, but it would have been helpful if you’d had the time earlier to learn the ins and outs of Common App yourself.

I’m glad your counselor made an effort, but I’m disappointed she didn’t know how to use it in the first place.

Good luck with your decisions!

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He applied, but overall doesn’t want to aim for an HBCU. I know several graduates of HU and have visited. It’s a great school and he loves DC.

Unfortunately, while Howard has great aid for some high stats students, it doesn’t offer much aid for regular students. If he goes the HBCU route, he’ll probably go to NCA&T or Hampton.

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You say you regret he didn’t apply to Duquesne. I have a kid who sounds very similar yours. He did apply to Duquesne last year and was accepted with merit and a housing reduction that got the COA down to about $28k. That’s sounds like it’s still quite a bit above your budget so I don’t think you missed anything by not applying there.

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Lots of colleges do not require living on campus (many do not have enough campus housing and/or serve a substantial commuter population).

But whether off campus living (for colleges not near the parent residence) costs significantly less and is reasonable otherwise for a frosh student depends on the college.