<p>Parents, I need your counsel pretty badly. </p>
<p>I am a hs senior living in the east coast, one of the top students in my class, 2390 SAT I and mostly perfect SAT IIs. I have straight As.
I worked hard on my application. My English teacher loved my essays.
I got stellar recommendations, probably nice GC recs.
Some decent awards and ECs.</p>
<p>I applied to 10 schools that are within the range of top 20 national universities. Unfortunately, I didn't apply to any "safety schools". I didn't know how strong I was in the applicant pool.</p>
<p>I got rejected to all but one, which waitlisted me.</p>
<p>Two factors almost entirely destroyed my application: international, fin aid.</p>
<p>The school I got waitlisted from told me if I get in, I won't received any $. I quickly applied to an out-of-country school, which is rolling admissions, but I'm not sure if I want to go there. Both my parents are new at this admissions game, so I can't get advice more specific than "do your best".
Parents, do you think I should take a gap year, which I can use to improve my ECs, which aren't that good, maybe by taking a job or getting internships or going abroad? I've been so depressed over the week, I only have a little bit of self-esteem. PLEASE ANY REPLY IS WELCOME</p>
<p>I'm sorry to hear about your results. You have my sympathies. Before making a final decision, you probably should consider several factors.</p>
<p>First, how important is it to you (and your parents) that you attend "a top 20 school?" If nothing less will do, then, yes, consider a gap year.</p>
<p>If the answer is "no, I'm willing to consider other good educational institutions" then you have several options. First, in May the National Association of College Admissions Counselors (NACAC) posts a list of schools that have not received the yield they expected and thus have seats still open. Every year some very good schools appear on that list, although few are in the top 20. Many do offer financial aid (and the list tells you which ones). You can find the list around May 1 at <a href="http://www.nacacnet.org%5B/url%5D">www.nacacnet.org</a></p>
<p>You can also consider attending community college and then trying to transfer after a year or two. </p>
<p>You can also look for any schools offering rolling admissions that are still taking applications --- as you apparently have already done. </p>
<p>Getting back to the gap year idea --- it is not a bad idea, but you will need to plan your gap year carefully. Do a search here in the parents section for a poster named Andi - her son followed this route last year and has had happy results with his applications this year. I'm sure Andi will also see this post and comment on her son's experiences.</p>
<p>Again, my sympathies --- and best wishes for a happy, if delayed, outcome.</p>
<p>I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the community college option. For instance, as a non-resident, you can enroll in Santa Monica College or other California CC's for about $2500 a semester. You can then apply to the UC's in two years and be given preference in the process. Of course, you do still have to pay for room/board, but it is not necessarily an impossibly expensive proposition.</p>
<p>I'm so sorry you're in this position. I have noticed more internationals who need financial aid being waitlisted by top schools this year, and I have my suspicions of why (i.e., financial aid needed). A gap year is not a bad idea, but just weigh all of the options before you decide to go that route. If you do go for a gap year, try to arrange one that will build upon your strengths and overcome any weaknesses (i.e., test scores). Next year, apply to a broader range of colleges as well. Things have a way of working out for the best, although it may not seem like it at the moment. Please feel free to PM me if you want to talk further.</p>
<p>xgyrosx I sympathize- it's a tough position. It's going to require you to pick youself up & dust yourself off if you want to start planning alternatives. My son took a gap year and started the process over again. He made an entirely new list that was more balanced. Added to the list were two of the same schools he had originally been rejected from and -guess what- he was rejected from them the second time as well <em>lol</em> So while the gap year was a wonderful experience, it, in and of itself, isn't necessarily going to change the minds of any schools. </p>
<p>Your recognition that schools such as Emory were missing from your list is on target. That's what you should shoot for the second time around as well as some that are more sure shots.</p>
<p>When my son planned his gap year he didn't just come up with one program that he did all year. That wasn't going to work for him, but I'm sure it would be excellent for many kids. (there are threads on the subject of gap years here if you do a search) He built his year gradually, piece by piece. First he applied to a college where he could take courses as a commuter. Then he got a job at Starbucks. He got involved with many musical experiences- something important and meaningful to him. He got another job as a music teacher and played music accompaniment in a variety of places- including an upcoming trip to Armenia. Some of it he volunteered to do and some he got paid for. He worked hard enough to save money to go biking in France this summer and still have some left to help out with college expenses next year.</p>
<p>Basically, he was very motivated and looked for all the opportunities himself- building on his contacts. </p>
<p>One of the things we discovered is that there are some amazing schools out there and a lot of them award some excellent merit scholarships.</p>
<p>You might do some research on how your international status affects you, since it seems to have this year.</p>
<p>As Carolyn pointed out, there is that NACAC list if you definitely want to start school in the fall.<br>
I think the volunteer programs are good too either here or abroad.
Since money is an issue for you, apparently, you might try to work combined with other activities. Perhaps an internship?<br>
Remember that you'll be applying to schools when you've only done a few months of your gap year, so setting some goals for yourself that you can write about is important.</p>
<p>Good luck. Stay positive--it'll help a lot!</p>
<p>I don't know how to post a connection here about Andison and his remarkable story. He took a gap year after a not so pleasant application round last year, and this year is bringing about some wonderful, wonderful options for him. A gap year doesn't have to be a "last resort". Could someone direct this poster to that thread?</p>
<p>Thank you everyone for your kind replies--I have something to say for all of you:</p>
<p>carolyn: I actually know a friend who moved to CA to attend UC Berkeley after going to a community college. But UCs are state schools and so I don't think private schools will give preference if I go to a community college within that state. And I need to go to a private school because state schools like UCs are just too expensive and don't offer financial aid to internationals. Also, my parents are moving back to their home country soon, so I'll most likely be by myself (which is kind of scary).</p>
<p>andi: Congrats to your son! But can you be more specific about his story and how he began to plan? Do I need new counselor and teacher recs if I reapply and new HS transcripts? Do colleges keep my application till next year? Will having a gap year give the colleges a negative impression? I'm so eager to know the full story.</p>
<p>thumper: Yes, I regarded the gap year as a last resort because I thought it was risky. Wouldn't GCs usually discourage their students if they chose gap year? I searched some posts about gap year and read a couple of successful stories but no one posted an unsuccessful story. A person I know claimed that gap years look bad on my applications, especially if I go for the toughest colleges again. She told me to choose the transfer option (that is, if I get accepted to the out-of-country schools I've recently applied). She said if I go for a gap year I have to have lots of special activities but if I do a transfer after going to a college I only have to get good grades. Is this true?</p>
<p>for everyone: tell me more about the NACAC list, for instance, how it works and who is eligible.</p>
<p>Gap Years do benefit overseas applicants. I know a 20 year old who was just accepted into NYU after traditional Gap Year as a tutor at an English boarding school. Antoehr got into columbia after an intial rejection from Harvard.</p>
<p>If you cannot afford the schools, x, you should add some good merit schools to your list.</p>
<p>wait a minute, cheers. when you say "overseas applicants", do you also mean "international students" or "overseas US applicants"? Also, you suggested adding some good merit schools to my list->does this mean you are recommending that I take a gap year?</p>
<p>The chances of an appeal being successful are quite remote. Doing a gap year would be a better bet. It would allow you to build a stronger profile; it would allow you to apply to a different set of schools from the ones which did not accept you this year. This is what happened with Andison. He used his gap year productively and targeted different schools from last year. And some of his new choices are quite awesome.</p>
<p>Admissions committees do look kindly on students who have taken a year off after high school (see the Harvard admission website). </p>
<p>If you need to add good merit schools to your list, the only recourse is to take a gap year and re-apply. While some schools may still have empty spots after May 1, their coffers are likely to be bare by then.</p>
<p>If you only applied to the top 20 schools and you had to tick off the fin aid box as a intl student, then you made a mistake in your application strategy. Kinda big mistake for a clever kid because that info is widely available here on CC. </p>
<p>Therefore, I do recommend a Gap year as a breather. Step out into the real world and get your bearings. Now you know that the top 20 schools are not killing themselves to have you as a student. Oh well. That's just a simple reality--shared by thousands, LOL. </p>
<p>Take a Gap Year to understand that reality, then re-apply WITH some good merit money schools on the list--NOT only top 20 schools. </p>
<p>marite, the intl students I spoke about are true intl students, though I believe both had the ability to be full paying students. One was one of the best math students the department has ever seen (Geez, I'd love to have a kid with that rec!) and the other was one of the best drama students the dept had ever seen. </p>
<p>The first one was caught out when he didn't get into Harvard--on top of his extraordinary academic skills, he was a Korean Kiwi who was a top ice hockey player! Nevertheless, Harvard didn't want him. </p>
<p>Them's the breaks.</p>
<p>That said, I do not think a Gap Year is as big an huge influence on a students application as one might think. It has worked out extraordinarily well for andison and nopoisonivy's (?) son, but I didn't think it added much to my son's application. He may not have played it up properly though. His college app wasn't the reason he chose his Gap Year activities.</p>
<p>Oh, I've read about the Korean Kiwi. Yes, it's a shame that he did not get in. </p>
<p>I don't think students should take a gap year to build up a resume, nor does the Harvard Dean of Admission suggests so. It is very good to take a break between high school and college, do something different than studying, acquire some maturity, and so on. For the students on this thread, though, it is also a good opportunity to regroup and reconsider their various choices. What else can they do?</p>
<p>"If you only applied to the top 20 schools and you had to tick off the fin aid box as a intl student, then you made a mistake in your application strategy. Kinda big mistake for a clever kid because that info is widely available here on CC. "</p>
<p>cheers, what do you mean by "application strategy"? I'm sorry, but I'm first generation in my family and I was just too naive when HYP said they were "need-blind" for intls as well (I now don't think they are). But what was I supposed to do when I needed financial aid? I mean, I couldn't fake that my family had the money to pay 40000$ a year. See, I no nothing about a strategy and I lost the game terribly.</p>
<p>Lots of top LACs (liberal arts colleges) offer tons of money to international students. I know someone who went to Vassar and only had to pay around $5-$8k per year. However, one thing about LACs is that they have very little name recognition in some parts of the world. This guy had trouble because of the name COLLEGE, which in some foreign countries pretty much means two year community college. He's had so much trouble finding a job in his home country that he's come back to the U.S. for graduate school, and is looking for a job in the U.S. now instead of back in his home country. That's an unfortunate consequence that you may want to look into in your own home country before applying to LACs.</p>
<p>xgy...Your application strategy was to apply to only the top 20 US schools. Even for the best of US students, that would be seen as an arrogant, slightly foolish, strategy. </p>
<p>How long have you been on CC? If you've been on since the applicaiton process, you should have read <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=58751%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=58751</a>. The intl CC posters talk about the vagaries of intl fin aid all the time. It is difficult to believe that you applied with so little awareness or so much optimism but if you did, it was a mistake. A Gap Year would be a good way to readjust that strategy--or....gather your GC and your teachers and ask everyone with any influence to help you get into your waitlist school. Send them extra essays. Call them. Let them know how much you want to come. I got off of a waitlist in August :eek: and it changed my life. When the school calle dme in August to tell me I had been accepted, I initially told them to get stuffed. My pride was so wounded. Clever adcoms, they told me they wouldn't accept a 'no', they would call me back in a week. When they rang again, I had swallowed my pride and changed my mind. (And I had already beent ot he orientation of the other university! And met my other roommate!) </p>
<p>Yes, there are institutions which are need blind. However, those same institutions maintain a meager 6% international students as a proportion of their student body. 6% Intl compared to 94% American. Already your odds are tougher. Then, those elite institutions have a preference for giving fin aid to US citizens. As they are US institutions, that makes sense doesn't it? </p>
<p>If the institutions didn't have these preferences, they might lose their uniquely American qualities. There are, after all, only 295 million Americans in a world of 6 billion people. Preference for American citizens would be a natural aspect of the institution's mission statement.</p>
<p>The schools are need blind....for the students they accept.</p>
<p>Had this applicant been a U.S. citizen, I am sure with his stats he would have gotten into most of the schools he applied to.</p>
<p>However, that is the reality of being an international student requiring financial aid... there are serious doubts as to whether even the self-proclaiming need-blind schools (HYPMW) are truly need blind (both from personal experience and anecdotal evidence on these boards). </p>
<p>I was in a similar position last year: I applied to six schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Williams, Cornell, NYU... yah I was naive and perhaps over-confident in my stats), and I received rejections/waitlists from the first five schools, then was accepted by NYU the next day. After I got my 5 rejections/waitlists, I seriously considered taking a gap year but the advice I got from friends and parents was that I should go back to Australia (from where I was accepted into several universities) and just finish my higher education there. This is probably what I would have done had I not been accepted by NYU.</p>
<p>I guess what I am trying to say is that consider all options before taking a gap year. Carolyn gave very good reference and advice (as always :)) and I think if you set your standards a little bit lower, maybe you can transfer into a great school next year!</p>
<p>I feel sorry for you because I know how it feels, but just remember; they didn't reject you, they rejected your application. Best wishes.</p>
<p>hey man, i haven't really read through all the responses but:</p>
<p>1) Gap year will not hurt you at all. In fact, I do know instances in which students took the Gap Year and had great results even though they did not significantly improve the application</p>
<p>2) however, your problem doesn't seem to be the application. It's the international factor. If money is important and so is going to a top school, then take out outside loans to pay for it. It'll be expensive, but it's up to you to determine the worth. Tons of LACs give money, but so do tons of top schools. I am also international, attended Dartmouth, and paid around/less than $10k/year. strategize with which schools to apply for FA and which not to. FA is tough internationally. think about who you're competing against for the money. i got very lucky thanks to a scholarship from a differnt school that D matched. but unless your parents are coffee bean pickers from northeastern kyrgyzstan, you're in a tough pinch.</p>
<p>I know, I know, I was "arrogant and foolish" and tactless for naively applying for financial aid as an intl for all of my schools. I simply compared myself to kids at my school (a fatal mistake) because some kids who got accepted into places I got rejected had much lower stats and less vigorous courseload and less accomplishments than mine.
All of you came up with good suggestions and I highly appreciate them.
But which is harder to gain admission to top schools: gap year or transfer? I'm a little more skeptical about the latter. If transfer depends only on grades, does that mean that if you maintain an excellent grade in, say, a community college in some insignificant county, you'll still be accepted as a transfer in, say, Harvard? Maybe my example is too extreme, but if this is a misconception, please feel free to point that out.</p>
<p>Oh btw, sologigolos, I don't get your comparison (the coffee picker one).</p>
<p>Xgyroxy, I am extremely sympathetic with your situation and I feel your pain. In fact, I am in the exact same situation as yours. I am an international student studying in the U.S and applied for a lot of financial aid. Basically, I asked each school I applied to give me a financial aid package that is close to a free ride. Disasterously at the end, out of the 16 schools i applied to, I got rejected or waitlisted by all of them except for two. As if this is not bad enough, one of the two schools that i got into refused to give any sort of financial support. I go to a very competitive and well-known high school in New England. My SAT is 2150 which is not nearly as high as yours. I do however have near perfect SAT II scores and a 3.8 unweighted GPA. I have decent scores on AMC and AIME as well. I have quite a few good EC's and glowing teachers' recommendations. Unfortunately none of my credentials helped me to get into the schools that I want to go, not even my safeties, such as Brandeis, Colgate which my friends with considerably weaker stats got in. I have been tremondously depressed. Sometimes, I wonder why I worked so hard during the four years of my high school if I had known that I would end up at a midwestern state school which one of my friends got in with a C/B average.</p>