The Last Resort: Gap Year

Parents Forum
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<p>lala56: Yes, I am currently living in the US but with a J2 visa.</p>

<p>rollypollyollie: What are you trying to say?</p>

<p>mgrace5: So you transferred instead of applying as an incoming frosh? Please tell me, b/c I'm inspired by your story, what did you want to get out of college experience? And what made you choose Wash. U. as your top choice?</p>

<p>IzzyJ: Do you happen to know any list of schools (or any names) that don't allow international transfer? And does anyone know if there are schools that don't offer FA to intl transfers?</p>

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<p>I'm not a parent, but I feel I can provide you with a bit of info to the OP since I myself am an international (Norwegian citizen of Indian ethnicity,born in Norway studied in international schools and spent my last two years of high school in Korea) and took a gap-year. I graduated early from high school (was 16) since I skipped 10th grade, so my gap year kinda filled up the whole in my high school.</p>

<p>Last year I took the SATs and got a 1350 (660V, 690M) and had SAT IIs of 690 Physics, 680 IIC and 640WR. I had decent ECs, nothing spectacular and had a GPA of 3.8 UW. I took a shot at Princeton, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke and Georgia Tech (legacy) all RD and got rejected.</p>

<p>Over the summer I got results from my AP Exams and got a 5 on Physics B and 4s in Calc, Stats, and Lit. I decided to take a gap year and reapply to a few schools, and Princeton ED. I retook my SATs and got a 2180 (760M, 690V, 730WR, 12Essay) and 760 World History, 750 Math IC. And guess what? I got rejected flat out ED Princeton, which rejects only 5% of its candidates. I had described in detail what I was doing in my gap year (3 AP courses online, volunteer for Amnesty, an internship with a polsci professor, getting a patent for a device I created and which I described in my app). I wrote solid essays and had good recs, and then after my ED disappointment, I applied RD to Brown, Wharton@Penn, Cornell, Yale and Northwestern CAS. And also, I didnt apply for financial aid. Now at decision time, I get a shock since I get rejected at all the schools but for Northwestern. From my experience, my gap year was quite a disaster in terms of decisions. Dont bank on anything even with a 2390 (a score I would kill for), great ECs and a fabulous GPA. Decisions are random and can be hurtful even after a gap year. Hopefully though things work out and you do get in, but just to warn you, things arent always as one expects.</p>

<p>Also, if you have done your high school in an american system overseas, do check the requirements for application to the unis. I, for example, checked the foreign language requirement at the unis, and it turned out that its 4 years for the ones that rejected me. I had only 2 (Spanish IGCSE on which I got an A). This little points can also result in rejection, possibly.</p>

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<p>APPEAL APPEAL APPEAL</p>

<p>Frankly college admissions are not as sacred or set in stone as most people seem to think they are. Call the colleges up, send letters to the University presidents, and make more phone calls. </p>

<p>Make it happen. Don't take it sitting down; I was deferred ED from my top choice (Haverford College) and believe my constant show of interest was a factor in my eventual admission. Colleges recognize a persistent and well qualified person as someone who has something special... and that in and of itself can be your hook.</p>

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<p>xgyrosx:</p>

<p>yes, I applied to transfer after my freshman year of college. in terms of what I wanted to get out of my college experience, well... I wasnt finding it at my old school. I went to Mount Holyoke in MA which is part of a 5 college consortium with Amherst, UMASS, Hampshire and Smith, and originally thought it was a great idea because in theory it would give me the best of both worlds -- I could easily focus on my academics and at the same time have 4 other colleges at my finger tips to provide a social life. However, once I got there I realized that a womens school simply wasnt for me. I found that each school had all sorts of stereotypes about eachother and people werent very open to meeting people. The campus was always dead on the weekends, lots and lots of girls were not happy (including myself), and you had to party hard consistently every weekend if you wanted to have any sort of social life with guys -- and even then it never seemed to me very meaningful. Even in the classroom I felt like discussions suffered without the perspective of men as well. I wanted a campus that was active week-long, and where students were committed to their school and really happy to be there -- not trying to escape at every possible moment. I´m not trying to bash the school in any way, for some people its a great fit and I do think its a good place, its just not for me.</p>

<p>So why Wash U? Not only does Wash U have superb academics and extremely intelligent students, but the students also seem to be really, genuinely HAPPY. My impression after visiting, talking with friends who go there, and from what I´ve read, is that it has top quality academics without some of the snootiness and competitiveness amongst students that you find at other schools of the same level. Students are really friendly. It´s also a school that is working very hard on hard on building even more on all the great things it already offers. </p>

<p>I definitely agree with what one of the parents on here said -- take a gap year only if you´re willing to get really into it! You have to go into it without any doubts and it can be a really positive experience.</p>

<p>Another poster here cautioned that you shouldnt think a gap year guarantees you admission into the college to which you want to go. That´s certainly true....but nothing does, especially when you´re applying to very competitive schools. Be sure to apply to a broad range.</p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>hey, im really sorry to intrude on this great coonvo, but just a minor minor question, callthecops2 said
"I got rejected flat out ED Princeton, which rejects only 5% of its candidates"</p>

<p>r u sure it rejects only 5%? cause ........... i dont think that's true ... i visitied a few sites, and Princton accepted around 28% of their ED applicants .... please clarify</p>

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<p>The acceptance rate is 28%, and the deferral rate is in the mid 60% range</p>

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<p>oooohhh,icic, so they don't flat out reject more than ~~ 5% of their applicants ... icic</p>

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<p>In general, I think taking a year between high school and college is beneficial to many young people.....IF.</p>

<p>If you have a plan for constructive work and/or community service.
If you have a plan to address weaknesses in your ability to do college-level work (Example, weak math skills --> taking some classes at community college)</p>

<p>The kids I know who have thrived with a gap year have planned well. That means having a mix of activities and challenges.</p>

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<p>I am very sorry to hear about your situation. It’s tough to be in the unknown place, with no definite direction to go in.
However, you have come to the right place. Many parents here have given very good advice, so please take it to heart. I will second the advice on taking a gap year; I think that would be your better choice. During this time, you can find some meaningful ECs you will truly love and work really hard on your essays. </p>

<p>My daughter is an international student who also applied for financial aid. From her list of acceptances, we have learned that the following schools are very good with giving academic scholarships/financial aid to international students:
USC – Trustee (Full tuition) scholarship
University of Miami – ¾ tuition scholarship
Brandeis - $ 23000 /year including $5000 loan and work-studies.
Middlebury 13K/year
McGill 3000/year (great school and cheap tuition compared to many other colleges)
Davidson
University of Texas at Austin</p>

<p>Go through Carolyn’s old post, you will learn the value and concept of safety, match, and reaches. Since money is a factor, My D and I had expanded the list to include financial safeties and financial reaches.</p>

<p>I know that this is a very tough time for you right now, but do remember that there is always a next year. I remember when my DD was rejected from her EA school; she has lost a great deal of self-confidence. Now, looking back, she felt that she learned a great deal about herself, and most importantly, she learned how to pick herself up and start over again. In life, nobody chooses to suffer, but the hardships are the ones that will really shape your character. </p>

<p>Good luck and stay positive!!</p>

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<p>I hate to be crude, but this thread scares the crap out of me. I'm a Swedish citizen living in the US on an A-1 (diplomatic) visa. My parents are only able to contribute $10k/year towards my college education, which means I'll need quite a bit of aid. I'm relieved (and, dare I say it, hopeful?) to see Middlebury on Incamom's list of generous schools; I visited last week and it's now one of my top choices. Most days, though, I cycle between confidence ("I shouldn't worry so much; everything's going to be fine") and despair ("They won't want me and everything will be ruined!"). In brief... it sucks. :eek:</p>

<p>To the OP--Your situation is my worst nightmare. I wish I knew what to tell you, but I'm honestly speechless. All I have to offer is a very heartfelt "good luck".</p>

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<p>as a swedish citizen, arent you not entitled to massive loan/grants from the swedish government? Here in Norway, we can get a total of 90K dollars for UG degree</p>

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<p>As far as I know, I'm entitled to $2k/year in grants and $13k/year in loans. That only covers 1/3 of the cost of an American degree... and still leaves me nearly $60,000 in debt after four years. Without financial aid, I just can't pull it off.</p>

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<p>Cameliasinensis maybe you should look little lower than Middlebury.I think it is common mistake for international students- to apply to top places only and create even more competition for those few spots open for internationals. Schools of lower tiers might be more generous to you and you will receive same excellent education.
And many people born and raised in US will not know names of many great colleges out there besides obvious HYP.</p>

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<p>Well, I did say that Middlebury is one of my top choices, not that it's the lowest ranked school that I'm applying to. I crossed Harvard and Yale off my list after visiting because I didn't like them; I hated Penn almost as much as I hate New York City, and Columbia by extension; I haven't visited Princeton but it's not currently a top contender. Actually, the only Ivies I'm remotely interested in are Brown and Dartmouth, and even then I know that having high stats doesn't make them any less of a long shot. I loved MIT and will apply, but recognize that my chances of getting in are laughably small (<5% international admit rate, anyone?).</p>

<p>Some schools I'm considering are Macalester, Carleton, Grinnell, Kenyon, Colgate, UChicago, and some others I can't remember--so mainly LACs and smallish universities in cold places. I'm always grateful for suggestions, though. :)</p>

<p>I don't care one bit about name recognition, by the way. I don't intend to return to Europe after graduation, and besides, I'm more concerned with my own happiness than with other people's expectations. I guess that makes me a quaint and idealistic sort of rarity on these boards. ;)</p>

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<p>posted by rollypollyollie:

[quote]
Lets say you got into some really good colleges but there was one that you really wanted to go to but got rejected. Could you defer from a college for a year (gap year), do something, and apply while to schools during that time? I guess what im asking is can you ensure that if you still get rejected you will still end up in a school, just to keep all your bases covered?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'd really like if this were to be answered, as I'm in a similar situation. Someone said they didn't understand what rollypolly was saying, but I'll try to clarify using myself as an example (none of these are actually the colleges I applied to, so don't try and say something like "Oh but WashU is great" or whatever. I know it is, I'm just using it as an example).</p>

<p>Let's say I got into a good school...maybe Tufts or Rice or WashU or whatever. But let's say really wanted to go somewhere else, like Georgetown or Stanford, but didn't get in. </p>

<p>So let's say I write Tufts/Rice/WashU and put in my class deposit, but also ask to defer my matriculation by a year (so that I'll be Class of '11 instead of '10). Let's assume they say yes.</p>

<p>Now, I have a whole year off where I can do great things...things that would look great on an application and would potentially compensate for why I didn't get in last time, and I already have a guaranteed spot in a good school. So now I have a safety net to fall back on, meaning I would like to apply again to those schools I really wanted to go to, and if I get rejected again, no biggie, cuz something's there to catch me.</p>

<p>So now, is it possible for me to apply to Georgetown/Stanford again, even though I've already put down my deposit for the other school? Or is there some law against that? And what about an overseas institution, like Trinity College or Cambridge or Oxford? Would there be any rules governing those I should know about?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>I know a number of parents who have put down multiple deposits in the normal spring acceptance mode in order to give their kids more time to make a decision, so I assume having put down a deposit isn't binding, other than to lose your deposit. I don't think you sign the kind of committment that you do for early decision, although I don't know for sure since our S did do early decision.</p>

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<p>First of all, big thanks to those who gave me some solid (and sincere) advices.</p>

<p>Second, I think I have three options so far. One is to take a gap year, then reapply to the schools I really wanted go. Two, I can go either to my waitlisted school(which I'm not really raving for) or the out-of-country school(again, I'm not very enthusiastic, but at least it'll be cheaper). I think I can get into at least one of them, and after that, I spend my four years working hard and apply to my dream schools for graduate schools. Last, but not least, I can go to one of the two schools I've mentioned above and then after my freshman year, apply for a transfer. What do you think?</p>

<p>However, there are problems with all three strategies. Gap year seems worth it, as far as I've heard on this thread, but there's no guarantee that my family's financial circumstance will improve to the extent I won't be needing FA (in fact, I doubt it). Not trying to impose myself, but I won't need to take any more standardized tests other than the APs I'll be taking next month. I need to do a meaningful activity, but will that dramatically help me next time I apply? I'm afraid it won't make much of a difference and I'll end up wasting an entire year (and worse, find myself in an EXACT SAME nightmarish situation AGAIN). But if I'm persuaded, I'll take the risk.
Transfer also seems like a plausible idea, but is transfer tougher than frosh admission? One of the colleges I REALLY WANT to go is Stanford, but unfortuately, it's a very stingy university compared to its...$ resources. I don't have much info about transfer for S. If my waitlisted college accepts me w/o FA, I'm definitely deciding transfer to S, b/c I'll be paying 40K anyway.
Someone in this thread suggested appeal, but how do I do that? Call up the director of admissions and... and what do I say? Should I dare to call S and tell them my recent awards (not that prestigious awards tho) and ALSO tell them I will go w/o FA if that's what it takes so please accept me? Do you think I should do that?</p>

<p>So, what are your thoughts? Again, any reply is heartily appreciated and REMEMBER THAT I'M AN INTERNATIONAL STUDENT. Thanks.</p>

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<p>If someone takes a "gap year" is it harder to get recommendations, etc. from your high school once you've already graduated?</p>

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<p>If a kid takes a "gap year" can he still be carried on his parents' insurance? If not, why are so many recommending this option?</p>

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<p>This is what you have to figure out. With your SAT scores, you could very well be a polymath. But, can you identify anything that you can do that no one else can do? When I ask this, don't underestimate yourself. What do you think about, when you are by yourself? </p>

<p>What do you envision yourself doing in 15 years? (After that, you may reinvent yourself, or even before, but right now what do you dream of being and doing?) Figure out how to express this dream in a college app, and articulate how what you have done fits this dream. If you want to do a gap year (or two), find something to do that is relevant to your dream.</p>

<p>Think long term, i.e. taking steps to where you want to be, say in 10 years.
You have disadvantages. But you have extraordinary talent. You didn't get invited to join the Himalayan expedition this time. If you want it badly enough, you can get there. Except, instead of manning base camp, you'll be on the ascent team--if you are dedicated enough.</p>

<p>If I were to suggest a school, and say, you might be interested in science or medicine (or both), I'd suggest moving to Washington state, getting a job, and attending UW part time. Focus, and excel in your classes, and look into the Gates Foundation scholarships. I once took a "grunt job" in a research lab, and after two months, as a 19 year old I was working with electron microscopy.
How did this happen? I organized my assigned work, consistently got it completed early, until it reached a point where my boss ran out of assignments, and having free time I attended research meetings, and asked probing questions that caused the Ph.D.'s to say, "Gee this kid is smart," so my boss said, "Why don't you go over to the EM lab and observe what they're doing." Then it became, "Here, why don't you try preparing some samples, and we'll look at them together." "Very nice preps. Do you know what this organelle is and what it does?" (I did, cuz I studied at night.)</p>

<p>By age 22, I developed my own research project, and my work was adopted internationally. It got me into a really great (top 15) med school.
I knew something about myself: I was a wizard in laboratory science. So I used this special talent to reach my goal.</p>

<p>Figure out what your best talent is. Be willing to take a job BELOW YOUR ABILITY, BUT IN THE FIELD THAT MOST INTERESTS YOU, and work it up. </p>

<p>Columbia offers classes with their registered students. Beat them, and then get a research position. Excel at both, and you will get compelling rec letters, and you'll get in to whatever university you want to attend. It may take you more time than is "fair", but you can get to where you want to be. </p>

<p>I don't want to dismiss community college as a pathway, but cc's don't know how to deal with genius. This isn't their mission.</p>