<p>Your parents make $140,000 a year, and THEY feel they can only contribute $12,000 a year…$1000 a month.</p>
<p>What makes YOU think that you will be able to afford more than that, or even that amount on a starting salary out of college?</p>
<p>My issue with the community college route is that the community college around here (and yes, I’ve taken a class there- and an evening class at that) is essentially an extension of my high school for those who were not successful enough to go anywhere except (maybe) a CSU. That may sound snotty, but I swear it’s true. I could barely handle the last four years with those types of people (they weren’t even in my classes), another two years would kill me. Everything I’ve done in high school has been with the purpose of graduating and going somewhere great. If I knew community college was going to be my best option, I wouldn’t have stressed myself so much or spent so much money on college applications.</p>
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<p>Who says community college is your best option? You have stats good enough for Duke and Berkeley. Take a gap year and apply to some merit granting schools with honors colleges. </p>
<p>You’re bringing back memories. I felt exactly the same way about high school. Question: are you applying for fall 2014 or 2015? If 2015, check out the posts on full tuition/free ride colleges and universities. Drexel was mentioned here. In my region, the University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa offers full rides to NMFs and full tuition at cut-off GPA/ACT/SAT scores. The reason you find everyone screaming about debt is because debt is the new slavery. It’s virtual shackles on your future and the posters here - including me - want you to use your seriously smart brain and seriously consider that maybe you DO have low- to no-debt options. I’m betting the majority of your respondents are middle aged like me so we’ve made our mistakes and have had some success. </p>
<p>U of A is, yes, in Alabama and for a Californian, that means getting on google maps and searching for one of the states ‘in the middle.’ But it’s vibrant, diverse, and would be quite the adventure and academic experience. It’s a farce to think intelligent life doesn’t exist outside of Duke and the UCs. Not to mention, the beaches in Alabama are gorgeous…</p>
<p>If 2014, then what about going to a local CSU and then transferring to the UC of your choice? </p>
<p>Caitiann, the COA for Berkely isabout $35K. You can probably bring that down a bit, by asking for the cheapest room, cheapest meal plan and planning a way to get cheap books, supplies, sundries, getting a ride to the school. Now that you are in your colleges, I suggest looking for a part time job NOW. You need to start cracking because you need to make money. If you work starting now and all through the summer, you can probably come up with $5-6K. You then find a job as soon as you get to Berkeley. Get used to this kind of pace, because this is going to be your life for a long time. </p>
<p>You can borrow $5500, and that’s it without your parents involved. You can ask your parents if they’ll match you in the loans which means they’ll be paying that $12K a year for your college for several years after you graduate, but if they pay the interest at least each year, they likely can get some deductions and there is the college tax credit that will help some too. That will just about do it. If parents or you have some savings, that can cut the loans a bit for them. If they get turned down for PLUS, you can get another $4-5K a year, making it a bit tighter. After freshman year, look for off campus room shares and do your own food for further savings. </p>
<p>The reality is that YOU cannot take out loans for more than the DIRECT Loan entitlements in your own name, so your parents need to get involved to get more than that $5500 a year. As I said earlier, you might as well get accustomed to living on a very tight budget and working a lot of hours, juggling school as well, because that is going to be your lot in life for a while. 4 years at the school and thereafter paying off the loans.</p>
<p>You go the CSU route, you can relax a little and enjoy the student life, take part in whatever that school has to offer. FOr a top student like you, there are likely to be all sorts of opportunities that you won’t get as easily at Berkeley because you are going to be working and juggling school at the same time, and also competing with a lot of top gun students. Woman I know got the Rhodes scholarship at a local school that you and most here have never heard of, the first for that college. She says she doubt she would have had a tenth of the opportunities she would have had, if she had stayed at Cornell, from which she transferred. She was a big fish in a small pond, and on top of the food chain there. Got the best goodies from all of the profs and nailed any of the programs and opportunities there, when she just had to stand in line and pound salt at Cornell. So do think about that and quality of life. Nice not to have to worry about money, I can tell you. </p>
<p>One of the better bargains at Berkeley, if they still exist, are the Co-op housing options.</p>
<p>Like others have said, most people do recognize that graduating college with no debt is not realistic in all cases.
Personally, I also recognize that a better fit school might be worth a little debt. The local state school just isn’t for everyone and if given the opportunity for a school that truly meets the individuals needs, then a family might need to consider what that is worth to them financially. Now, I’m not advocating “but it’s my dream school and lets all take out 80 grand in debt.” I’m not advocating “but school 1 is more prestigious than similar school 2.” However, if a kid has the option of going to the “right” school for them but there is small gap then filling it with a student loan may very well be worth it. </p>
<p>There are ways to improve the situation. Students can commit a portion of every summer’s earning to paying off loans prior to graduation. Students can work towards graduating early (easier in a smaller school of course.) If parents are willing to help pay off student loans after graduation as opposed to taking out parent loans during… that works for some families. External scholarships can be great though you have to check with the college in how they credit these… many will use that money first to lesson the “self-help” portion of tuition. Even if you only manage a 1K after 4 years of trying, that’s still 1K you don’t have to pay later.</p>
<p>Of course, it doesn’t sound like you are trying to fill a small gap. You aren’t looking at 10K total… not even looking at the federal cap of 27K. You are looking at much higher numbers and maybe not considering that you won’t be able to keep getting those loans year after year.</p>
<p>Wow what a difficult situation. I feel for you. It definitely is the middle class who get pinched more it seems. The UC system is pretty amazing for the price, but even then you’re stuck. How much money can you make between now and school begins? Then each summer?</p>
<p>If you can truly have the discipline to get some of the money needed together, (like get a job NOW and start saving) and want to give one of the schools a try, maybe doing so would be worth the venture, but you should have a back up transfer in case it does not. It means moving back home and commuting to a local school if the finances, the working, the school work just is too much for you. You aren’t likely to get the merit offers as a transfer that you may have right now with your safety school.</p>
<p>I know dozens of kids who have done just that, by the way. Very common. They went off to college, and for whatever reason, and sometimes the reason is financial, they returned home to parents, got a job and are going part time for their degree. That’s how most people get their degree any ways. </p>
<p>My d was ready to sign on the dotted line for UofChicago a few years back. After an in school discussion about student loans with her peers she came home and decided it may be prudent to research a full ride offer she originally dismissed because the school wasn’t prestigious enough. She switched gears - took the full ride (tuition and room) and has never looked back! The opportunities at her “less” prestigious school have been academically challenging and fulfilling! She is currently in a dual bachelors/masters program and is researching PhD programs at Chicago and Duke.<br>
Please don’t mortgage your future for a name brand undergrad education! A few years ago I may have agreed with you…but I can now agree with the posters above - if you can qualify for Duke and the like…you have options beyond a mortgage sized debt!!</p>
<p>Countless arguments have been made and hundreds of articles have been written. Most parents and students have gotten more than enough exposure to the student debt crisis. I know I’ve heard opinions from both sides. </p>
<p>Now there’s only one thing left to do: let people make up their mind. Everything is a choice. I really believe enough has been said. Until laws are made and the system changes, US education will continue to be a money making enterprise. The only thing left for students and parents to do is to make a choice of how to navigate these muddy waters. Some will choose crushing loans in exchange for a few years worth of feeling like they’re on top of the world. Others will opt for community college. Others will take a gap year to make income, or work part time, or even forego college altogether to start a company or work freelance. Some will even join the military, or work in a family business. A growing number will pick up a trade. </p>
<p>There are very foolish choices, and very smart choices. College is a bit like a pageant today. Unfortunately, a lot of it is about egos and pride just as much as bank accounts. At the end of the day, you get what you deserve. That’s the way it’s always been and the way it’ll always be. </p>
<p>If you pick up debt, good luck. You know what you’re getting into, and you should be prepared to pay any potential consequences. And if you can get a free ride or substantial scholarships, that’s great news (truly). </p>
<p>My situation is pretty similar. All I can say is that it sucks. It’s hard not to get angry at your parents for their spending habits, but at the same time it’s hard not to get mad at the colleges for forcing your family to make the choice between debt and a lifestyle change (and frankly, for many families, mine included, that are the products of the cheap tuition of early 80’s, a lifestyle change is not in the books) if you want to go there.</p>
<p>To be honest, I think the concepts of “fit” and the “dream school” don’t apply to us. You need to take a practical route: to not do so is simply sticking your head in the sand. I’ve never made a loan payment before, but even I know how hard and confining it will be to have that large debt hanging over your head for so long. Where I come from, $80-100k is enough for a small starter home on the outskirts of town.</p>
<p>I agree - don’t take out onerous loans. My husband and I met in engineering grad school at UT-Austin. We were both excellent students. We had experience, good references, etc., etc. We thought we had it made! But then the Texas economy TANKED a few months before we got our master’s degrees. There were NO structural engineering jobs, zero, in Texas. We sent out almost 300 resumes, out - everywhere from Hawaii to Maine. We got just a handful of responses. Thank goodness we found work in Maine, but the pay was a good bit lower than we had expected to earn. One time an older draftsman accidentally got my husband’s pay check and said, “Dude, they’re not paying you enough!” If we had had high debts, we would have been hurting. As it was, we were able to save and buy a tiny house before long. So be careful!</p>
<p>There was a letter to the “advice” column in yesterday’s paper about this. I forget the details, but the girl (out of school, employed, and debt-free) was wondering if she should be serious about a guy who has $200,000 (!) in debt from UG and graduate school. Horrifying, IMO.</p>
<p>@caitiann - I think you have seen enough written on here to accept the fact (and it is a fact, not an opinion given the overwhelming evidence) that the amount of debt you would have to absorb to go to Duke, Bowdoin, and even Berkeley, which is instate for you, would be outrageous. However clearly Berkeley is the least expensive of those options for you, assuming you got nothing in aid form the other two. Didn’t Berkeley offer you anything? Mu niece goes there and she wasn’t as good a student as you appear to be, but she got some kind of smallish scholarship from UCB besides her need based aid. But if you are going to do this reckless thing, do it at Berkeley,</p>
<p>I am not going to beat up on your parents, because I have no idea what the particulars of the last 18 years or so have been for them. But if the reason they can only give you $12,000 a year out of that income and, based on the lack of any mention of it, saved nothing for your college years, they did you a grave disservice. You also screwed up by not researching excellent schools that are much more generous with merit scholarships (more on that soon). But what is done is done.</p>
<p>Personally, I completely understand your wanting to be in a top level academic environment. It makes perfect sense. But not at any price. But there are alternatives.</p>
<p>You haven’t responded to the suggestions that you take a gap year and reapply for the Fall 2015 to a variety of very good schools that offer generous merit scholarships. You would almost no doubt get top awards since you had the qualifications to get into Duke. Tulane, U Miami (FL), Pitt, and a number of other schools provide generous scholarships based strictly on merit, your financials have zero consideration. These are high quality schools. Tulane, for example, has 125 scholarships that are full tuition and fees, and 5 of those winners are selected for a Stamps Foundation scholarship that is a full ride. Miami is similar, I think. But at Tulane, which I know a lot more about, even besides those 125 they award numerous scholarships worth $10k-$30K, and you only have to apply to the school (free application btw) to be considered for those. You would definitely be at the higher end of that range.</p>
<p>The point, of course, is that you do have options for getting a top education at schools similar to Duke in many ways without going into massive debt. You just would have to wait a year to do it, and in the meantime you could be working and getting some money of your own. Not the worst thing in the world. Your parents could also put that $12K aside as if you were going, and then continue it when you would actually start. That would also reduce your debt considerably. As many have said, few people think that debt free is an absolute, you were a bit hyperbolic on that point in your initial posting. It is most definitely a matter of keeping it manageable for when you get out.</p>
<p>So what do you think? Doesn’t that make the most sense in that it keeps your dream of going to a “real college” (my term, not yours but one I think captures exactly how you feel) alive while at the same time addressing the potential debt issue. All it costs you is a gap year. Many articles have been written about the large increase in students taking gap years.</p>
<p>Very good thread with lots of great stories and information. What I’m getting from all this is that if at all possible don’t take out ANY type of loan and that even includes the Stafford Unsubsidized loan. Am I correct? Or if a student can get out in four years with just the unsub loans that would be OK?</p>
<p>The OP is in a very difficult place in terms of getting enough money to go to a school that she desires. Her family EFC basically makes so that she is entitled to NO financial aid at the California state school, and even if OOS schools were inclined to meet her need, she is right at that line where she is entitled to little or none from them. The privates that meet full need will give her about what her state schools will cost.</p>
<p>When you are talking merit money, getting huge amounts is not easy. Especially because she wants something that is “better” than her Cal State option. Basically she needs close to a full ride, her at least full tuition covered. With private school costs, going into the $60K range more, getting that kind of money is highly unlikely, a lottery ticket. She already does have at least one affordable option but she doesn’t want it. She wants a more prestigious school. I doubt she’d find the schools with guaranteed merit or where she is likely to get her cost down to less than $20K a year are going be what she wants. </p>
<p>I don’t think the situation will change much is she gives it a try again next year. She could have more choices of the schools she does not want. So right now, she can give it a go at Berkeley, working hard at a paying job and living poor to pay the costs, barely scraping by and trying to beg some more money off her parents and maybe a bit of loans on their part, and doing this for 4 years, or making the best of it at a school that is affordable and where she can work hard, be top dog and consider going whereever she pleases for grad school since that would be on her tab. </p>
<p>@cptofthehouse - You could be right about her not being satisfied with the likes of Tulane, Miami, Pitt, etc. If so, then there is little else to be said. That would represent a myopia that leaves no wiggle room. But how about we wait and see what she has to say about it?</p>
<p>@scsiguru - Well of course no loans at all is a better situation than any loan, at least in this context. If you go to business school you will learn all about the joys of leverage. But for your personal situation it is usually better if you can come out loan free. However, that shouldn’t make you shy away from a small amount of loans if you need them.</p>
<p>cpofthehouse, I am grateful for your penetrating and informed guidance. My daughter is finishing her freshman year at Union College. Because of our low 2012 income and a $10,000 grant from a generous local civic association (she was salutatorian and had a103 average and amazing ECs) we had our first yr paid altogether! Now our 2013 income is higher (due to my husbands part-time and freelance work) and there will be no $10,000 gift. I wrote a letter to the financial aid dept explaining how due to y husband’s job loss in 2009 we took thousands (they will see this from our tax info) from our retirement savings just to live on. My husband lost his six-figure job in the recession of 2009 and we have three daughters adopted from China (very expensive ventures). I have a jr in HS (first in her class and such a perfect girl!) and an 11 yr old. I am wondering if I should call the director of financial aid and saying, that beyond the facts of our cordial, business-like letter, we frankly are broke with credit card debt and we help an indigent sister in law and her poor son who actually lives on the streets of NYC. What I am saying is, I am afraid of her getting into a loan hole, and after a yr of Union, I cannot imagine pulling her out to attend a CC and then go on to a SUNY. </p>