<p>Ctclemmons, contact your financial aid director by phone but do not be surprised if the he/she hasn’t got a satisfactory answer for you. </p>
<p>CTClemmons, your daughter should also be hounding the financial aid office for information on other scholarships she can apply to. Schools have more for upperclassmen, and some departments offer scholarships.</p>
<p>Have you re-emailed your schools and asked for a financial review?
Do this, email them (quite persistently) with a load of facts backed up. Tell them why what they offered is unaffordable (I want to say Duke is need based, and usually the caps for those are rather high, i.e. 250k). Theres a chance you might get more, how much more, who knows, but they want to keep their yield rather high so it’s worth your time at least, even if you don’t choose them.</p>
<p>If you do email them, don’t whine and say ‘it’s expensive’ but make sure the email is quite well spoken and unoffensive (no demands etc) and you might get a much better offer (this worked for me at a school similar to Duke).</p>
<p>Good luck. </p>
<p>“Frankly, I am afraid for the first time in my life, for the future solvency of young people these days, even as I am worrying about my generation’s retirement. It’s never been really easy to get a living wage right out of college, but in the last decade, the odds have plummeted and I see many uemployed and underemployed young people who did all the right things and have not yet found a niche in the working world to become self sufficient. It’s frightening to me.”</p>
<p>Totally agree. </p>
<p>I’ve noticed in my kids’ highschool, which has a majority of low-income students, that there’s a lot of talk about how important it is to go to college, but not a lot about the cost. At most there is vague talk about how there are lots of loans and scholarships for good students, but no hard and fast advice about what the cut-off point should be beyond which a student should not take out further loans. And there needs to be a discussion like this. I don’t even like it when the advice is qualified with statements about people who majored in a STEM field and were offered $80K right out of undergrad. Students should be told, flat out, that it simply is not realistic to bind themselves to more than $X amount of monthly loan payments. Why do highschools have counselors to advise students on applying to colleges, but not financial advisors to advise them on what they’re getting themselves into when they take out massive loans? As it is, the drumbeat about GO TO COLLEGE is so loud that it drowns out the quieter “but don’t take out more loans than you can afford.”</p>
<p>OP, I think you are scorning the CSU system undeservedly. I work in Palo Alto, and I can tell you that schools like San Jose State are pretty highly regarded as a source for new hires. I can also tell you that when I look at a resume, I don’t care what school the candidate attended. I care what experience and skills they have. </p>
<p>Although it may not be enough, you should be getting need based aid from Berkeley. My guess would be about $3,000.
<a href=“http://financialaid.berkeley.edu/middle-class-access-plan”>http://financialaid.berkeley.edu/middle-class-access-plan</a></p>
<p>I know a lot of kids who got awards from Tulane, Fallenchemist, but no one who got so much merit as to bring the cost below what Berkeley instate would be. That is a pocket a lot of people fall into, by the way. Their EFC is such that they are expected to pay instate. No financial aid for instate. They qualify for enough fin aid from the schools that tend to meet need so that the cost of those private schools are about what the unaffordable state EFC is. Then in the merit department, getting more than about half the COA covered is very difficult from most schools other than a handful with NMF awards that may cover full tuition and some guaranteed awards. Tulane is generous, but they are tightening it up lately in those awards and those $30K ones are very difficult to get. But the still “only” bring the price down to about the Berkeley level. It’s very difficult to beat the home state school price if you want a sleep away experience, unless your need is way down there which then will cause certain schools to step it up and maybe give a full ride package. The OP does not qualify for those. It appears that the parental income is over that usual cut off for such options (see Wash &Lee free tuition offer, for example). </p>
<p>Bigwords, if the OP were getting money from Berkele, s/he’d know by now, so it’s in the numbers. The bottom line is what the OP has to pay and what the family can pay leaves a gap. One bigger than what can be filled with student loans. Parents have to take up the pen and debt load if kid is going to go to those choices.</p>
<p>I also don’t see anything wrong with an affordable Cal State. They are highly rated among state schools and over all. And my SIL hires in the Valley too, and yes, she looks at the top kids from all of the schools. Every single Harvard kid, Berkeley kid does not get a job there, you know, as many disappointed kids going those schools can tell you.</p>
<p>
You might not know them, but a lot have, especially those who have credentials good enough to get into Duke.</p>
<p>The Cal Berkeley website says that instate cost of attendance is $33,320 for the current school year (2013-14). <a href=“Cost - Office of Undergraduate Admissions”>http://admissions.berkeley.edu/costofattendance</a> Tulane this year was about $61,000. I know lots of people that got the Presidential Scholarship, Tulane’s top “automatic consideration” award of $30,000. She would have great odds of getting that. So call that breakeven, give or take. This person would certainly have a shot at the full tuition+fees scholarships that require an additional application. Those are worth about $46,000. 125 of those are awarded every year, 75 for the Deans Honors Scholarship and 50 for the Paul Tulane Award. Her chances for one of those would be decent, I imagine. Those are not slam dunks for anyone, but she would certainly be in the running. And if she won a DHS she would be in the running for the Stamps Foundation award, of which there are 5. This pays everything plus a stipend. Plus I suppose it is possible there could be a little FA from Tulane that would include a small need-based grant and then some loans, if she “only” got the Presidential.</p>
<p>Having said that, I agree with you that CSU is a totally viable option she should consider IMO, but I am working with the current fact that she won’t consider it. Not saying it is wrong to try and convince her it is a good option, I just wasn’t going there because you and others did such a good job making the argument.</p>
<p>Just wondering how Bowdoin got in the discussion with Duke and Berkeley. These are prestige plays for the OP, yet most people have never even heard of Bowdoin.</p>
<p>With a FAFSA EFC of $38K, it is highly unlikely the OP would get ANY fin aid before paying that. Certainly no federal aid including federal WS and subsized loans. Most school, and I don’t know if TUlane falls in that category, do not have formulas that end up with lower expected contributions than the FAFSA EFC. I doubt she’d get a dime of aid from Tulane unless the merit award leaves some FAFSA need, but then it would likely be self help.</p>
<p>I agree that the OP would be in the running for hte Presidential award. How many students get that, however? Tulane is a popular choice at my son’s school and he’ll be applying there–we’re visiting this month, in fact. But from what I was told, even those who got into HPY, and our school does get kids who go there each year, and applied to Tulane, not all of them got that top award, not to mention the full ride. But, yes, that was a viable option that she did not take. Don’t know if she was NMF; Northeastern and Fordham give full tuition remissions to most all of those such kids. Duke also has merit, but to get that is nearly impossible. The problem here seems to be that her very favorite choices did not give her enough money to make a go at it. She has a significant gap a even to go to Berkeley, all her parents will pay is $12K. She can borrow $5500, maybe make $5K (realistically and not stretching too much) which brings what she can pay to less than $25K. </p>
<p>She can go with no trouble at all to a CalState. Is it worth it for her to take the year off and try again through all of this,maybe work and save some money, say about $10K and see if she can get the Tulane award to make that school doable, or a school like Tulane? it’s no automatic, bear in mind, so there is a real risk here. Parents can save up the $12K, she can maybe match it , maybe a bit more and so her allowance per year would be up to about $12K from parents, $5500 Loans, $6K savings (1/4 of parent and her kick in from gap year), and maybe an additional $5k of earnings from continuing to work summers and part time, to bring the available money up to $27K. But would Berkely hold her spot open or any of the schools and would it then be doable? </p>
<p>That is another alternative. </p>
<p>“Please don’t mortgage your future for a name brand undergrad education!” </p>
<p>^^THIS. We told both of our sons this exact same thing. When I went to college in the mid '80s, I had to max out on loans, as did my parents. We didn’t know any better–I was a first-generation college student, and my parents were so excited to put that sticker on their cars. In order to get through what was then a fairly pricey education (approximately $20K per year–which seems laughable now, considering how much my alma mater charges for tuition, room and board today), I also worked 30-35 hours a week at a “part-time” job while also carrying a full course load. I spent much of my college years feeling financially stressed, and I couldn’t participate in certain clubs and activities because I had to work to pay just to be there. </p>
<p>This is what I told my kids: After I graduated, it took me 12 years to pay back my student loans. For a degree that only took 4 years to get. Was it worth it? In my field, I make exactly the same as the guy sitting in the next cubicle over who went to one of our state universities. My husband, who also graduated from the same university as I did, worked for 14 years as a manufacturing systems engineer before changing careers. He was a supervisor over several employees who were graduates of Harvard and Dartmouth and Brown. His boss? A graduate of the night program at the University of Massachusetts-Lowell. </p>
<p>Do not ever think you are “too good” or “too smart” to attend your state university or a less prestigious college that offers you merit. The really smart kids are the one who are able to get their degree while minimizing their debt load. Which means when they graduate, they are able to afford nice things like cars, houses and vacations a lot sooner than those who are drowing in loan payments. </p>
<p>
Lets be honest here. Foresight and planning aren’t your strong suite. There are EFC calculators you could have run last fall to see what your parents would be expected to contribute, in order to select colleges that were affordable. Targeting ones with merit aid, maybe. But having learned nothing from your planning disasters so far, you’re going to double down and take on a boatload of loans that future-you will magically be able to handle. Just because, I suppose. Because a guy like you is entitled to attend top college instead of a CSU or (gasp) a CC. </p>
<p>So I have a favor to ask. 6 years down the road come back to the forum and let the kids in a similar position to yours today know how that all worked out for you.</p>
<p>Mikemac, I don’t know very many, in fact, any 16, 17 year olds who are savvy enough to get how it works. A lot f parents don’t. In fact, most of the don’t. I 've seen this horrible awakening occur every year for the last 15 years, before a parent gets that they do not qualify for ANY financial aid because they make/have too much money, and that they have hemmed themselved in on fixed costs by buying a house that requires a certain minimal outlay and other living expenses that are commitments so that they do not have the leeway in income to pay for much at all, and they haven’t saved anything more than a short term emergency fund that they know they can’t touch because it’s constantly being tapped for those danged things in life that crip up, or long term locked up funds like 401Ks that are really inadequate even, so touching them is a bad idea. That leaves loans, but then they have to ne repaid. Also as they get older, with this economy, jobs may not be so stable, business not so good and to make a commitment the size that a private away college costs is a foolish idea. They find that the schools where the chances of merit that they were sure their kids would get, are not the schools they want their kids to attend, nor do the kids want to go there. </p>
<p>They’ve bought into the myth that it will work out somehow. Plus these costs are breath stifling. I’ve been watching them rise and it still scares me. It’s over a quarter million for a number of these private schools. A quarter million! Really more than that since there are often other costs involved other than what COA lists, like taking the kid to the school, spending some time there, buying the mug , the sweatshirt, taking kid and roommates to dinner, sort of thing.</p>
<p>Many of these kids have gotten just about every and anything they wanted, lived a pretty danged luxurious life, in a nice house with little or no money worries. They just assume that college will be provided as it’s the next natural step and everyone in their school are so talking. </p>
<p>I fit this mold but due to buying too expensive of a house, some financial disasters, having no family near by, no extra money source anywhere, some medical issues including a child with cancer, insisting on private school k-12 for the most part, and having so many danged kids, my kids always knew we were strapped. They know I have no money any given day and many of them found jobs walking dogs, giving neighbor’s kids lesson in bike riding sports and some child care, house sitting, minor repairs and heavy work so they didn’t have to ask me. Really, I never have money. and I’m always a dollar short because when I pay everything I can, I’m busted and behind, even before college was in the picture. So they knew and I told them right out. I packed lunches, had old cars, did most things around here myself, planned vacations around other needed trips and mooching off of someone living in the area. </p>
<p>One of my son’s classmates told him not long ago, that his parents just found out that even with two in college, which would be the case the year after next for them, they would still be full pay at the most expensive schools. For some reason, these very intelligent, high income parents had it in their heads that they only had to pay two years of their two kids colleges because when they were both in school, they would be in the gravy and make out like bandits. Kid 1 wants to go to BC, full pay, and they though it would cost about $40K . Yeah, right. Believe it or not, they did not face the numbers or they did not sink in till now. </p>
<p>
Reading it again I think my tone was too harsh but its the message I wanted to say. The OP has been around the forum for a few years. There are a few posters who, whenever a kid asks about the college search, mentions that the first thing they ought to do is have a talk with their parents about finances, including running an EFC estimator and seeing how that matches up with what the parents can contribute. Any kid on this forum has seen that advice time and again. It might have been an unhappy reckoning, but having the talk in August instead of April would have allowed time to explore feasible alternatives. Following up a bad search process with heavy debt to make things work out anyway seems not to be the ideal solution, IMHO.</p>
<p>I think it starts at home, really. It’s not our place to demand the particulars of the OPs family situation, some people have medical expenses or are supporting aged parents, etc. But I have family members without these burdens that complain about the cost of education yet have a pair of cars purchased for over $40K apiece parked in the driveway (and its the driveway because the garage is storage shed for all the stuff they’ve bought over the years that just sits unused). They never considered driving the previous cars a few more years, would be aghast if someone suggested selling these and buying less expensive used cars. New furniture, nice vacations, they have expenses that weren’t the same as fixing a hole in the roof. I’m going to bet the car the OP rode to school today would pay for a big chunk of one of those schools. </p>
<p>The OP’s parents no doubt work hard and are entitled to enjoy what they earn. But they don’t earn enough to have everything and have to make tradeoffs. It seems like they have enough free cash flow to afford $1K/mos towards college. Had they noticed their adorable child was growing up when she was in 7th grade and starting putting that money into a savings account they would have $60K today, and that’s without interest. </p>
<p>I get this thread mixed up with another. So many in this sort of situation. These parents seem to be earning about $100K net of taxes, but probably wanted a nice safe haven of a home, and knowing what things cost in CA, that alone can be a killer Wanting the best school district, convenience to work, amenities, can’t really argue with that as I know that’s where we put our money. My brother and SIL live in a small (by NYC standards even) rancher in CA and what they pay for the thing is obscene. Some bouts of uemployment and a medical crisis put them behind in saving and they are playing catch up.</p>
<p>I am supporting aged parents, 2 of them, but they are supporting us too, in that their pensions allow me to hire help which alleviates some of my housekeeping musts, and there is a little left over too for extra. But for years when my mother was on her own, she could not make ends meet on her meager pension and we, brothers and I did pay her so she could have that independence in a safe place and not stint that much. But really, the house here is the big thing, yet cost per person, it’s not. Gives us a lot of space and comfort for many hours a day, a lot of us. Give that up to pay for a college of choice…I don’t know.</p>
<p>Any case, this OP does have a nice choice, I think. Just disappointed because what’s affordable is not what she’d set her sights on. Wanted the mercedes and it’s the toyota she can afford. </p>
<p>She might be able to work something out yet. </p>
<p>Interesting topic. My family is one of those that had a very high EFC ($40k) which is a total joke. We live outside of Boston, where a normal 4 bedroom 2000 sq ft home now costs about $450k in a town with good schools (but not a Wellesley, Weston, Newton…). So our mortgage is higher than in most other parts of the country, and after paying our also ridiculously high taxes and car and home insurance, there isn’t much left over. Drivers Ed, school sports teams, summer day camps (“just” the YMCA and town camps to save money) because DH and I both work, braces for both kids, repairs on a 120 year old house (the norm in this old tow) so have repairs up the wazoo.
So bottom line, not a ton of money left at the end of the day. The financial adviser we met with 10 years ago said to put money into our retirement before saving for college. Suzy Orman says the same; so do a lot of financial advisers. Their point is that your child can always borrow for college, or go to a cheaper school, but you can’t borrow for retirement. So that is what we did - listened to the advisers and put our extra money into our 401ks and IRAs.<br>
Bottom line - we don’t have anything saved for college. We do not lead an extravagant life, but neither were we going to live in a 2 bedroom bungalow and shop at the thrift store so we could put aside $120k for both kids’ college in addition to saving for our retirement. So we made it clear to our children early on that they should apply to a mix of private and public schools, and that we would not borrow more than a small amount in loans to pay for their education, so they could get fabulous grades and hope for scholarships, or go to a less expensive school. This was made very clear to both kids and my senior is picking the school that has given us the most financial and merit aid, and which will be affordable. It is not her first choice, but it was one of her choices and she is very happy that she will not have a large amount of debt coming out of school.
It does sadden me that we can’t afford her first choice, because it is a wonderful school and I know she’d be very happy there, perhaps even happier than at the school she will be attending. But that is only 4 years of her life, and for at least 10 years after graduation she will have more money on hand to enjoy herself than she would have if we all went deep into debt! And she had a nice childhood with dance classes, karate lessons and drivers ed. Nothing crazy, but the things many parents want their kids to enjoy while growing up.
I say all this because I don’t think it is fair to blame parents for the fact that colleges are ridiculously expensive these days, that tuition has risen at an exorbitant rate while salaries have not and that a pretty normal family is expected to somehow come up with $40k per year, either in savings or from their normal annual wages and still eat. And without becoming a financial burden on their children when they retire and get old! And it’s crazy that students and parents think that life is over if they don’t go to an Ivy league school. Trust me, it ain’t.
Yes, many of us did hope somehow our kids would get the big scholarship and be able to afford any school they wanted and are sad they didn’t and can’t. I will do what I can for my kids now, by borrowing some money I know I can afford to pay back so that they don’t have to, but only a small amount. Helping out my children but also teaching them that life requires some compromises, and some sacrifices, may even be the best gift I can give them</p>
<p>
I think we all agree here. The point is parents should NOT be allowing their children to apply to just any school. They wouldn’t allow them to do the same with a car purchase, would they? Go ahead and get the Lamborghini, you can just take out a loan. It’s very discouraging seeing the SAME postings from students and parents year after year. IMO the list should be structured around affordable attainable schools. If you want to go for a reach school fine but attendance is contingent on finances.</p>
<p>Wow. As I read through this post, it made me contemplate my own situation. I have two kids in college – one in an Ivy, and one in our state school. We get financial aid for both, and are now reapplying for next year’s aid. One interesting point is that we pay TWICE as much out-of-pocket for our state school kid as we do for our Ivy Leaguer. When they say they try to make attending that school need-blind, they really mean it – and my family appreciates it! So, just so we’re all clear, we had to pay $6500 for my Ivy Leaguer who had tuition/room/board of $53k this year. On the other hand, for my state school kid, who does not have the strong academics of the other, and so did not receive much merit aid, we paid almost $14k this year on $23k T/R/B.</p>
<p>We are a one-income family, who got hit by the recession, and out of a “real” job for a year and a half – right when the kids were coming out of school. At one point, no one was working. (My spouse was not able to find work for an inordinate amount of time, and so is now in “semi-retirement” – no income there). I now have a “real” job again, but took a bit of a pay cut in order just to work. I’m now making @$116k/yr, but college education is still difficult to afford. While I have a decent salary, due to planning for my own retirement, I take home only @$66k. For the past couple of years, I’ve received a bonus, which left me with @$10k/yr “extra”. I use all of that extra, plus whatever else I can scrape up to pay the @$22k for kids’ college. I’m not complaining, though, and think we can afford about that amount.</p>
<p>Still, both kids are also taking out loans (the Ivy Leaguer because they think we should be able to afford more than we think we can – so that kid is taking out @$5500 in loans a year). The state school kid is taking out about $6,500/year. We are NOT taking out loans for their educations although we tried, and were denied – twice – due to our past financial difficulties. Reading these posts worries me a little as I consider how my kids are going to pay off their loans with unsure financial prospects. I think I’m going to start paying down some of the interest for their loans NOW, and then will plan to help them pay off the loans once they’re out of school – and I’m no longer paying tuition!</p>
<p>One is a junior and one is a sophomore. Both are well-situated where they are, and I’m glad they had the opportunities. But, anyway…this is sobering…</p>
<p>
Quite a few, actually. It is mostly stats based. They bend it a little one way or the other if they really want to attract a student even if the stats are not quite in the usual range for that award, and conversely they might not offer it to a student they are convinced is not really that interested in Tulane but only using it as a safety. But overall probably about 8-10% of the incoming class is coming in with a Presidential Merit Scholarship or higher (won the DHS or PTA). The key for Ivy level type students applying to Tulane is to convince them you really are serious about the school. So if the OP did go the gap year route and applied for Fall 2015, she would need a strategy for approaching Tulane. That’s another thread though.</p>
<p>I completely agree with you that CSU is the sure thing. Hopefully she is starting to realize that. Hard to know since we haven’t heard from her, lol.</p>
<p>Let me know how your visit to Tulane and NOLA goes. Send me a PM if you want, or come on over to “our” forum. If you want any advice on restaurants or whatever, I am happy to help.</p>
<p>Because I’m getting so much flack for not running NPCs or figuring out what my EFC would have been, let me say that I did do that. So did my parents. And what we saw was workable. I would graduate with some loans, yes, but a manageable amount. And then? My grandfather decided to gift my mom and her siblings his house so they didn’t have to deal with it when he died (which won’t be soon). Additionally, my mom and her siblings purchased some of his property out of foreclosure and had to pay a substantial amount of money in back taxes to get it back. So now we have assets that we weren’t expecting and that we can’t sell. Can’t sell because a) my grandfather lives in that house and b) two of my mom’s other siblings would have to agree to sell and the property isn’t screwing up their financial aid so they’d rather wait for it to gain value. We are currently trying to get rid of this property some way somehow because the calculators say that it would increase my financial aid (and yes I did get some, my schooling is about 30-40K depending on the school) by up to 10 or 15K if we didn’t have it. It’s honestly this property that is causing me an issue more than anything.
I also did receive merit aid from several of my schools, but not full tuition scholarships and I did not receive much (if any) need-based aid on top of that because, as we’ve already discussed, EFC.</p>
<p>I hope you aren’t feeling the flack from me. You’ve done a great job, and I don’t blame you. Perhaps under the circumstances, your parents taking out a loans is not such a terrible thing since the will some time in the future get asset that can repay those loans. I’m not talking about an inheritance, by the way, Not something ever to count on, no good comes from that, but the assets that were purchased and co-owned right now. </p>
<p>The easiest way to get rid of the propertyis to get a market value of it, take a loan out against it and your parent take the proceeds and sign off on their share, but most of these things are not simple when family is involved. However, they would then have a gain and cash assets so that is not necessarily going to improve their financial standing for Fin aid purposes. </p>
<p>You don’t owe us any explanation, Catiann. Hopefully through all of our pontificating, you’ve picked up some things about financial aid .</p>