The Magnitude of Asian Discrimination.. I mean Affirmative Action.. at Stanford Admit

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
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<p>I have to agree with stressedasian152. If I got accepted to Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford, and the % of Asians at each was 80%, 50%, 20%, respectively, I would go to Stanford.</p>

<p>It’s hard to know to what extent AA affects Asians (unless you’re an admissions officer or whatever), but I disagree that it only affects Asians. It affects people that only have good test scores and grades, people that are strikingly one-dimensional, which, overwhelmingly tend to be Asian.</p>

<p>And for the record, I’m Asian as well, haha.</p>

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<p>I just want to get in.</p>

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<p>I posted about this issue on the duke thread before when someone who had like an 1700 SAT got into Duke’s ED. Unless you’re an athlete or your dad/mom is the president, you don’t deserve special treatment, especially not because of the color of your skin. It’s absurd to assume why a black/latino/native american contributes more “diversity” than an asian/white student. Last time, I checked, not all white or asian students are the same and it’s considered racist to assume so. To those who rationalizing this decision, “why don’t you just try harder” or “blame your other asian friends” I feel really bad for you that you’re internalizing this racism and accepting it as the norm.</p>

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<p>Also, once upon a time, actually not that long ago, if you were a person of color, you would refused service at a restaurant. or be forced to the back of the bus. This was the culturally accepted norm and the law in lots of places. However, since the civil rights movement, this obviously has changed. However, at the time, people just accepted this and many blacks as well (read up on the uncle tom case). Just because things are the way they are, doesn’t mean it’s right. </p>

<p>Also, yes, Asians are also people of color and a minority and face discrimination as well (Chinese exclusion act comes to mind)</p>

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<p>Athletes don’t deserve “special treatment” and neither children of political figures (aside from security which would be provided by the government anyway). Nobody is getting “special treatment” like athletes and legacies/children of big donors get. That’s an indisputable fact.</p>

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<p>That’s not true at all.</p>

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<p>Minorities(excluding Asians) might not get preferred treatment on campus, but they sure do in admissions. Otherwise, why would there even be a thread on this. So I have curly hair, and I never see any discussions about how curly hair people get preferred admissions even though it does add “diversity” to the majority straight haired people.</p>

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<p>DukeStudent, naturally curly hair is biologically more common than naturally straight hair.</p>

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<p>What’s your point? Let’s say I got preferred treatment in admissions for my hair either way, I would personally want to get this fact a secret when I get to campus.</p>

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<p>The reason why athletes and donors get special treatment in admissions is that they add to the revenue and endowment of the school. You don’t do that by being black, hispanic, or latino.</p>

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<p>ugh this is never a good discussion topic, and sorry for the lengthy post in advance, but</p>

<p>-The context of accomplishments is important. Student A has parents that make 500k a year, goes to a prestigious prep school, has counselors and teachers that care immensely for their students and write good recommendations, an environment that fosters the importance of education, time to take SAT prep classes, money to do ECs and travel the world and have new insights, etc. Student B has parents that make 40k a year, goes to a moderate public school where there may be good teachers and counselors, but they’re more concerned with making sure more kids graduate than helping a student apply to top-tier universities, and they may not know how to write good recommendations. Their environment and culture shuns education, their parents can’t justify spending 50 extra dollars for their student to join clubs, they haven’t traveled outside their city, and they may need to work part time to help their family. If student A gets a 2300 and student B gets a 2100, the latter is much more impressive because student B most likely worked harder against more adverse circumstances.</p>

<p>-Most of the above circumstances have to do with socioeconomic status, but race does play some part. Exceeding academically as a black student has been difficult because it seems like, at least where I live, urban black culture belittles education, and I’ve gotten a lot of flak from peers for it. This is a poor blanket statement of course – somewhere there’s an Asian student facing the same problem – but overall it seems to affect black and Hispanic students in urban areas more.</p>

<p>-Quite frankly, the notion that someone with a 1700 shouldn’t get into Duke (or any top tier university) is silly. Coming from someone with an SAT score higher than Stanford’s 75th percentile, the SAT is a poor test of intelligence. The SAT is a test on how well you can take the SAT. People with more money, time, and access to prep materials are going to do better. I’m not close to high income, but the simple fact that I have Internet access (online guides and practice tests) helped me practice and probably led me to score over 300 points higher than I would have without any of that prep. Some of the brightest people I know don’t score well on the SAT because they don’t know how to take the test, or don’t read fast enough, or learned English as a second language, etc. Really, the fact that you can even prepare for the test to get a higher score defeats the notion of it being a true “intelligence” test.</p>

<p>-Nobody gets in over anybody else. Okay, technically yes, but there are more than enough qualified applicants to fill the Stanford undergrad pool many times over. Nobody can say that they didn’t get in because some minority “less deserving” of it got in instead, because Stanford admissions officers don’t admit students on any set criteria. Does someone “deserve” to get in over another student because they scored 80 points higher on the SAT and had a .1 better GPA? Does someone “deserve” to get in over another student because they’re a minority and had 200 more community service hours? Does someone “deserve” to get in because they won a prestigious math competition? Nobody “deserves” anything; college admissions doesn’t work like that. Stanford is building the class they want, which is why people call admissions a crapshoot – the same people that get accepted one year could very well all be denied the next, and vice-versa.</p>

<p>Admissions isn’t predictable. Everyone who applies is extraordinarily talented, gifted, and unique in some way, so there’s really no way to guarantee an acceptance. AA is a factor, but it isn’t the reason why someone does or doesn’t get accepted to a university.</p>

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Those of us old enough to remember those times–and especially those of us who lived in the South–understand why affirmative action is still necessary. I guess it’s a sign of progress that younger people can’t quite grasp it.</p>

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<p>Check out northwestern’s website. There is a great article on how the Asian today is like the Jew of the 1950’s when it comes to college admissions. They said colleges will pick the white over the Asian with the same credentials almost always. And they make up “special” things they look for as an excuse</p>

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<p>I find it cute that people who cry for Affirmative Action to go away probably have never faced overt, blatant discrimination before in their lifetime and most likely never will.</p>

<p>The funniest thing is that people do not, or better yet, CHOOSE NOT to understand what Affirmative Action does anyway.</p>

<p>When a high scoring Asian/White gets denied, everyone wants to kick and scream, but when a lower scoring Asian/White gets admitted, no one seems to say much at all.</p>

<p>But when a low scoring minority gets admitted, ALL HELL seems to break loose among the WASPs and the pseudo-WASP-Asians who try to mimic “whiteness”.</p>

<p>Weird.</p>

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<p>I hardly complain about affirmative action and I always try to restrain from such complain, but I sometimes can’t resist from speaking it out when some low scoring URM flaunt with their admission to other rejected high scoring ORM. Some of them don’t even acknowledge the existence of affirmative action. Affirmative action is well-known for its existence at top American universities. When accepted low scoring URMs insist they are ‘better’ in person than rejected high scoring ORMs, it’s very provocative for ORMs. It’s quite aggravating to see accepted URM with 1700s SAT flaunt at rejected ORMs with 2200+ SAT.</p>

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<p>@SpaceDuck</p>

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<p>Are you implying that the only type of discrimination that can be faced today in based on race, and furthermore, that only those minorities benefited by Affirmative Action face racial discrimination? Is discrimination based on other factors impossible?</p>

<p>You have posted before that you are African American and from a well-off family ($100k+). Can you provide us with an example of "overt, blatant discrimination you’ve faced that you feel should automatically qualify you for an admissions advantage?</p>

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<p>Well then, explain to us what AA DOES do. If its purpose is to give to those who have been truly disadvantaged in their life an advantage in college admissions, wouldn’t it make more sense to give that advantage to people of a low socioeconomic class, regardless or race?</p>

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<p>Of course, only the most ignorant people would assume that no minority was admitted on his or her own merits, and every otherwise well-qualified applicant was rejected because he or she was White or Asian…</p>

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<p>…and here is a perfect example of that level of ignorance. Surely you, who is presumably a proponent of racial equality by means of Affirmative Action, would not stoop to using the same type of sophomoric racial stereotyping you criticize earlier in the SAME SENTENCE?</p>

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<p>I don’t necessarily want to go down this road yet again, but I do think it’s important to distinguish between two things that always get mixed up in these discussions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The choice by colleges to use affirmative action to increase diversity and/or address past discrimination by providing advantages in admission to URM students. This clearly happens, and it clearly disadvantages white and Asian students in terms of overall admission chances. Nevertheless, it does not constitute racial discrimination AGAINST anybody because of race, and many people, including me, think it continues to be a good thing to do.</p></li>
<li><p>The possibility that colleges are discriminating against Asian students in favor of white students in order to prevent the schools from becoming “too Asian,” or simply because of unfair stereotyping. In my opinion, after reading discussions of this and looking for data over several years, I think it’s possible that this is happening, but it’s far from proven, and there are other factors that can explain some of the apparent discrepancies. This, however, I don’t think schools should do–and they deny that they are doing it.</p></li>
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<p>As a half white, half asian person who looks more on the Asian side and as someone has held leadership positions in student government (mostly white) and asian student associations(mostly asian). I can’t really speak about the experiences of other race groups such hispanic, black, and native american. However, based my personal experiences, I can say with 100% certainly, there’s many culture differences between asians and whites. And it’s not like they’re joining forces against everyone else. Not all asians want to be white and not all white people like asians. It’s a myth that asians don’t face discrimination (again, Chinese exclusion act, affirmative action policies, etc.) People are people. Being of whatever race doesn’t automatically mean you’re x, y, and z. My parents who are relatively old, think that all black people are criminals. It’s not so much as racist, but downright stupid in my opinion.</p>

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<p>It’s been 50 years and at least two generations since Rosa Parks, etc. al. AA is not “necessary” any longer by any stretch. However, it is highly politically incorrect to say so or to act as if it were no longer necessary. Everyone – and I do mean everyone – gets that black people are a protected class in this country and if AA were to go away, AA thinking would not. After two generations, black preferences are engrained in our society and the “leg up” or “hand out” is now virtually automatic. You could do away with AA entirely and its effects are so pervasive as to be intractable. It is no longer useful or necessary to continue AA as a “policy” or an an explicit statement of goals in admissions or in hiring.</p>

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<p>Look at what happens when you have a top tier school (UC Berkeley) that is banned by law from practicing race based preferences in admissions. BAM, you have 40-50% asian population. and people even joke about “Republic of Berkley” If this isn’t a clear sign that this discrimination against asians, I don’t know what is. You can make all the excuses you want, more asians in cali, more asians applying, etc.</p>