<p>*People’s Republic of Berkeley</p>
<p>When colleges say they want diversity, it is a little bit disappointing to think the fact that they believe people of different color of skin can make a campus diverse. </p>
<p>The color of your skin or ethnicity isn’t really the right criterion to judge whether someone is truly underrepresented. You aren’t going to diversify the campus just because of your genetic makeup. It’s the unique personality, talent, and passion that students bring in that make a college diverse and special.</p>
<p>The real URMs are the poverty stricken, under-educated student from any background. Note that many people who attend the most competitive schools in U.S. are from a wealthy family background. </p>
<p>And if we were to continue using the Affirmative-Action policies, let’s at least use them for who truly needs them.</p>
<p>^ yes exactly. If you have to work 2 jobs while going to high school, it’s understandable why you should have a lower standard of admission. Just because you look a certain way? No.</p>
<p>The funniest thing is that people of different skin color can and will make a college campus more diverse.</p>
<p>@tlsgur1, you clearly don’t understand what AA does. It prevents minorities from being discriminated against in the college admissions, jobs, and any other competitive service process.</p>
<p>Prevention does not equal preference.</p>
<p>"@tlsgur1, you clearly don’t understand what AA does. It prevents minorities from being discriminated against in the college admissions, jobs, and any other competitive service process."</p>
<p>Well yes. In theory. This isn’t at all what happens in reality. Unless by “prevents minorities from being discriminated” you actually mean “attempts to arbitrarily counteract and account for lasting social biases that negatively affect certain racial groups and lead to a relative perpetuation of second-rate socioeconomic status”. That’s the only thing AA can do in the case of college admissions; taking a less academically qualified UM, regardless of their socioeconomic status, is not an attempt to prevent the discrimination of minorities. It is, again, an arbitrary attempt to account for the entire entire cultural bias that has been set against them. Which is not in itself a bad thing; on the contrary, it’s a great and necessary thing. But not at the individual (college,company,ect.) level. Instead, those biases themselves, at the source, need to be counteracted and diffused at the national level.</p>
<p>It made sense to have AA in the past. Considering all the unwarranted discrimination the minorities went through, yes, it was a necessary measure.</p>
<p>But how does it makes sense to give someone an unfair advantage just by their color of skin, if he or she is from an affluent family, receiving the best education? Socioeconomic status of family determines one’s quality of life much more than other factors. Being born a minority doesn’t and shouldn’t automatically label you as the one who needs help.</p>
<p>This system makes us think that it’s justice to give help to minorities and label them as the “needy.” This false notion makes us dig deeper into believing in the stereotype that certain race or ethnicity is not self-sufficient. That is discrimination.</p>
<p>Skin color correlates to culture, culture correlates to values, upbringing, and perspective on life.</p>
<p>Please, tell me more about how skin color doesn’t affect diversity.</p>
<p>If we’re going to start pinpointing everything that is wrong with admissions offices everywhere, let’s start talking about standardized testing like the SATs.</p>
<p>Even if that is true. Most of the applicants that will get accepTed that are URMs will make up usually less than 15% of the school.</p>
<p>@stressedasian152</p>
<p>Of course, but as our culture gets mixed over time, just the difference in skin color doesn’t bring too much different to the campus. But surely, you aren’t expecting American born and raised people to do be completely different just because of race?</p>
<p>And usually to be even accepted into the top universities, the URNs have to be above everyone to even be considered and are usually the top 10% of the applicants.</p>
<p>As a very low-income Asian(Indian) from New Jersey, affirmative action disgusts me. It has not been necessary for years and is just pure discrimination. It’s absolutely indefensible. It’s not like Asians don’t face discrimination. Why not examine the individual instead of embracing a racist policy?</p>
<p>I always have some trouble deciding my views on AA, especially after seeing it with two of my friends for EA at Stanford (for the record, I also applied and was flat out rejected, though I blame terrible essays and not AA). Long story short, one of my friends is a high income earning half-URM who had a 2190 SAT, middling EC’s (president of a small club and an eagle scout), and decent essays. He was deferred. Meanwhile, another non-URM middle class friend with higher SAT’s, better/more focused EC’s, and, in my opinion, significantly better essays, got rejected outright. There was little cultural difference between the two except skin color.</p>
<p>Though I support AA, I do think it might be too widely used. I understand its need, even now, especially considering URMs in similar jobs with similar experience/education are paid less than caucasians, but I can’t help but think other factors such as family income/life circumstances should play a more important role than race in the admissions process.</p>
<p>I also still hold that anybody who gets into Stanford, regardless of race, does truly deserve it.</p>
<p>Oh? Really? So you mean to tell me that you haven’t noticed that at your school all the asians like to hang out together, and all the black kids do, and all the hispanic kids do? Because I’ve noticed that at my school and every school in my area. The argument that “cultures mix over time” is only relevant in the very long run, and regardless, certain aspects of culture are retained, such as religion, family values, etc. If cultures really mixed, don’t you think we’d write on our college apps “American” instead of “Asian/Pacific Islander,” “Hispanic,” or the like?</p>
<p>A simple fact is that a correlation between culture and skin color does exist. Now, you can oppose affirmative action for any number of other reasons, including that it is unfair and whatnot, but you certainly CANNOT make the argument that it doesn’t introduce diversity to a campus.</p>
<p>And etg2013 is completely correct. The entire college admissions process is arbitrary anyways. You want to complain about affirmative action? How about legacies? Athletes? Standardized testing which may or may not be a true representation of potential? How about that they seem to arbitrarily weight your ECs, depending on what they are? That they read your essays and judge you as a person? How about just the fact that some people get better opportunities than others?</p>
<p>And why don’t we carry that over into life? What are you going to do when your boss promotes his best friend instead of you? What about when the girl you like chooses some huge loser over you?</p>
<p>Life isn’t fair. Cry about it.</p>
<p>If you truly deserve to get into a great school, no matter what race you are, if you really commit everything you have, you’ll get in. If you don’t, there are no excuses. Not your race, not your gender. At the end of the day, college admissions are an arbitrary process where there’s a committee that picks people they like and screws the rest. Nobody is entitled to admission until they have the letter in their hand that reads “Congratulations.”</p>
<p>Very good post.
Nothing is fair in life. </p>
<p>But I am not mourning for myself. </p>
<p>“if you really commit everything you have, you’ll get in. If you don’t. No excuses”</p>
<p>Only if the disadvantaged can say this.
I am sad that this is not true. That’s all.</p>
<p>@spaceduck what? what does that even mean. how does just on the color of my skin would add diversity? Can I wear a black shirt tomorrow and claim that I’m black so I add “diversity” to campus. This is so ignorant it’s not even funny. </p>
<p>@stressedasian152 Yes, affirmative introduces “diversity”, but it also significantly hurts people like you (assuming you’re asian) You also seem really bitter about something.</p>
<p>DukeStudent your example is irrelevant and nonsensical. Try again.</p>
<p>“So you mean to tell me that you haven’t noticed that at your school all the asians like to hang out together, and all the black kids do, and all the hispanic kids do?”</p>
<p>Just gonna jump in the conversation to say this doesn’t happen at my school, as far as I’m aware… Then again, its a smaller public, so maybe that’s why?</p>
<p>Gotta agree with AustroHungarian. That sort of segregation doesn’t happen at my school either.</p>
<p>And some Asians out there (I am one myself) need to get their mindset straight. You don’t NEED to go to an elite college to be successful, especially if you’re going into pre-med. It’s just the prestige. That’s all.</p>
<p>@adodie</p>
<p>You can’t act like URM status, ECs and SAT scores are the only factors in admissions at top colleges. What about sports, family legacy, grades, class rigor, etc? And when you have a basically 2200 SAT, does it really matter after that point? Is there really a significant difference in intellectual capacity between a 2200 and 2300?</p>
<p>This is exactly the problem I have with AA. Who is anyone to judge whether the URM student deserved their spot compared to a non-URM? Tens of thousands of students apply to top schools every year, and comparing students who got accepted/wait listed/rejected only serves to prove how much of a crapshoot it really is. </p>
<p>I’m an URM (AA) and I’m personally against race-based affirmative action. Like a lot of other posters have mentioned, it began with good intentions and has gotten way out of control. There are much more viable alternatives to include diversity. I’m low income as well, and I wholly believe that any disadvantages I’ve had education-wise have had everything to do with income and nothing with race. </p>
<p>Another issue I have is the stigma associated with AA. I have pretty good stats (2250 SAT, 3.97 uwGPA, lots of APs) good ECs (finances hinder them a little) and great essays and if I get accepted into a school like Cornell or UChicago, I don’t want anyone to think that it’s because of AA. Never in my life have I ever felt that my race should lower my standards compared to anyone else. Assuming that the only way to have a diverse student body is through racial diversity is inherently racist. African-Americans (or hispanic or asian Americans) are just that - AMERICANS. I’m sure that a poor people and rich people have a lot more differences than two people of different races. And being in a classroom with someone who is “culturally” different than you (aka has slightly different skin pigmentation) isn’t going to make you more worldly or open minded, especially if you’re from the same country…</p>
<p>Sorry if I sound like I’m ranting. This issue irks me so much.</p>