The Meaning of Life

<p>A few questions for you, Videogamer,
You keep going on about embracing things "spiritually," a "spiritual connection," etc. What do you mean? It's a good word, but vague as hell in your posts. And a spiritual connection to what?
What is it you believe you do when you meditate?
Why can't the meaning of life be reasoned?
Do you deny everything that relates to the body? </p>

<p>Do you believe there is an absolute, objective truth? From what I've read you seem to embrace only relative truths ("reincarnation in the highly abstract view I have presented is viable because it gives meaning to life through a spiritual reality")</p>

<p>
[quote]
But everything you do is judged by your spirituality, or lack thereof. For you to trust in science with any reasonablility, you must embrace it on a spiritual level. This does not imply a religious level, neccessarilly. I believe that a spiritual connection is not only a viable means of finding truth, but it is the only means.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Again, what exactly do you define as spirituality, or a spiritual level, or a spiritual connection? Do you believe there is an objective truth out there for everyone, or only an inner one?</p>

<p>Have you by any chance read something by Nietzsche called (I think) "Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense?"</p>

<p>Why talk about reincarnation --nobody is gonna die then come back to life to tell us what happens..its just one of the world's many mysteries..death is inevitable so everyone will find out..but for now, enjoy youre time on eath...and watch Fight Club its a good movie and relates to many of these posts</p>

<p>i still don't get it--why is the meaning of life 42? that's what someone google.com calculations say, but why?!! what's so significant about 42? :confused:</p>

<p>paris23, it's an inside joke among The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy nerds. You have to read that book to get it.</p>

<p>"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." --someone i forgot</p>

<p>what an awesome philosophy....</p>

<p>i don't think there's a true "meaning of life." everyone should just try to live their life doing what they like to do.. our universe is so big and we're so small that it doesn't really matter what our "purpose" is.. we should just all try to be happy. sometimes i just think we're all bacteria contaminating the earth.. if you know what bacteria does, you'll realize the simalarities.</p>

<p>"a witty quote proves nothing"
-Volaire
patientlywaiting -- "our universe is so big and we're so small that it doesn't really matter what our "purpose" is"--WHAT!! NO WAY...one person can change the world...beside, if you live by that philosophy than you dont care about the world. what youre saying is that since the world is so large we should just be lazy and not strive for a better life???</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
A few questions for you, Videogamer,
You keep going on about embracing things "spiritually," a "spiritual connection," etc. What do you mean? It's a good word, but vague as hell in your posts. And a spiritual connection to what?
What is it you believe you do when you meditate?

[/QUOTE]

I believe that words are limited. Communication is limited. Reasoning rests on assumptions, and assumptions must be communicated. The meaning of life is concievable, but it is not communicable. This means that on some level we know it exists and can even understand it, but the complexity of it is too much that our simple communication lacks the facility to communicate it. This view draws much from romantic thought, I suppose, if you must classify. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

Why can't the meaning of life be reasoned?

[/QUOTE]

Because reason requires communication at a sufficient level to communicate :D. The meaning of life exceeds this level. If you think thought is all about what is put into words, you are mistaken. A picture of an object shows not that object, but a representation. I could take a high resolution photo of a house, and show it to you, but it is only a 2-d model. It is not that house. For me to attempt to create a picture for you might help you, but it cannot communicate with accuracy.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

Do you deny everything that relates to the body?

[/QUOTE]

I am unclear on what precisely you mean with this question (notice the irony with my above replies). I deny everything that is accepted as true without reason, but I also accept intuition as a reason and a tool. In this sense, the meaning of life is reasonable, but not with traditional logic. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Do you believe there is an absolute, objective truth? From what I've read you seem to embrace only relative truths ("reincarnation in the highly abstract view I have presented is viable because it gives meaning to life through a spiritual reality")

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>No, I believe in an absolute truth, as I have said I have found this meaning. I was speaking abstractly simply for the sake of abstract speaking, as to not bring out judgments about my own particular belief. It is a 'theory of spirituality' I suppose. Unless I have made a logical error, which I do not think is the case, this theory fits any form of spirituality, religion, etc, except of course its theoretical converse, unless you accept a paradox as logical, but I dont feel like addressing that. In this theory I do not believe is the truth itself, but simply a tool to explain the path to truth. I believe in one of the spiritual paths as the only absolute right path. I am an absolutist in that I believe truth is absolute, but in most cases our perception of truth is relative. Morality is how far someone is away from the truth. Somebody who is closest to the truth and follows it faithfully is moral. Both requirements must be there. However, one who follows a false spirituality faithfully is both false and immoral, and one who knows the true spirituality but is unfaithful is just as guilty. I believe I have found this truth, this meaning of life. But all I can (possibly) reveal is that for anyone else to find it, it is an individual path to enlightenment (no I am not Buddhist). My task now that I have found the meaning of life, is to fulfill its meaning with minimal hypocrisy. I speak again abstractly because I seek not to alienate.</p>

<p>Quote:
But everything you do is judged by your spirituality, or lack thereof. For you to trust in science with any reasonablility, you must embrace it on a spiritual level. This does not imply a religious level, neccessarilly. I believe that a spiritual connection is not only a viable means of finding truth, but it is the only means. </p>

<p>Again, what exactly do you define as spirituality, or a spiritual level, or a spiritual connection? Do you believe there is an objective truth out there for everyone, or only an inner one?</p>

<p>Have you by any chance read something by Nietzsche called (I think) "Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense?"</p>

<p>
[quote]
I believe that words are limited. Communication is limited. Reasoning rests on assumptions, and assumptions must be communicated. The meaning of life is concievable, but it is not communicable. This means that on some level we know it exists and can even understand it, but the complexity of it is too much that our simple communication lacks the facility to communicate it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I disagree with that assumption. Reason is simply the part of the mind that says 1+1=2 and that you can never have a hill w/o a valley. It is apart from language, and exists before and without language (and communication). It is certainly connected to language, once our thoughts begin to be rooted in language, and sometimes depends on it (syllogisms), but it is apart from language and is simply the natural order of the mind.
I've read a few papers arguing the subject... but do you think language shapes (controls) thought? What gives you resaon to doubt language? Sure, "rock" is not the rock, but it is what we have (and we both understand what I mean), and that's why I asked if you denied everything bodily, if you refute language's connection to the outside world, or sight's, or hearing's, then you've ruled out much of thought (I am ready to admit that I think mostly in words). I agree that the meaning of life cannot be taught or explained away - like Hesse's Siddhartha it must be found on one's own, however, I believe it can be explained.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I deny everything that is accepted as true without reason, but I also accept intuition as a reason and a tool. In this sense, the meaning of life is reasonable, but not with traditional logic.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What would non-traditional logic be, exactly? Something not logical? That doesn't make sense to me in the same way a meaning that couldn't be reasoned makes no sense - we couldn't conceive of it as making sense or being right.</p>

<p>The reason I asked what you believe you do when you meditate is that I'm curious what you believe about intuition. How do you suggest that people recognize that they are further/closer from the truth? What I find interesting is that you believe the meaning of life is beyond reasoning, yet intuition is a process of reasoning. If it were to depend on anything else we would not be able to reasch the same truth, our commonality is our reason. If I was wrong before, and reason does depend upon language, then the meaning of life should be expressable.</p>

<p>Do you believe there are any consequences for not realizing the truth? It seems to be at a glance that to say "intuit something" or "be spiritual about something" leaves everything wide open to stumble on what is really not truth at all. It's like expecting every man to re-discover Euclid or hell, calculus. My sincere congratulations on having found the meaning of life. I believe there are, and have been, great spiritual teachers for a reason.</p>

<p>Wow, these posts are great!</p>

<p>However, i have one question to Gamer. I've always believed the "meaning of life" is somehow connected to Happiness, but so far reading what you've written it seems like you're not gonna reveal what you found to us. This means that even if you know some crucial information for the path to happiness, you won't share it to us. Anyways...i'm really curius...I guess i would have to meet you and meditate with you to learn what you were enlightened to.</p>

<p>Limon: going back to the God thingy...i'll answer this quick
interpretation i agree with: Having spiritual communications with God as a moment of self-reflection and personal improvement for the sake of spirituality and ones own path to happiness
i don't agree: Praying in hopes of getting something which you didn't work for and don't deserve.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
I disagree with that assumption. Reason is simply the part of the mind that says 1+1=2 and that you can never have a hill w/o a valley. It is apart from language, and exists before and without language (and communication). It is certainly connected to language, once our thoughts begin to be rooted in language, and sometimes depends on it (syllogisms), but it is apart from language and is simply the natural order of the mind.
I've read a few papers arguing the subject... but do you think language shapes (controls) thought? What gives you resaon to doubt language? Sure, "rock" is not the rock, but it is what we have (and we both understand what I mean), and that's why I asked if you denied everything bodily, if you refute language's connection to the outside world, or sight's, or hearing's, then you've ruled out much of thought (I am ready to admit that I think mostly in words). I agree that the meaning of life cannot be taught or explained away - like Hesse's Siddhartha it must be found on one's own, however, I believe it can be explained.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Yes, my point was that it is perfectly reasonable to me, but I cannot explain it to you or anyone else in such a way that they can see this reason. I am not discounting the value of language; it is immense. However, it is limited, and the greatest metaphysical question seems worthy of making that limit apparent. Our comprehension of reason itself is not enough to reason the meaning, but we can see it on an intuitive level.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

What would non-traditional logic be, exactly? Something not logical? That doesn't make sense to me in the same way a meaning that couldn't be reasoned makes no sense - we couldn't conceive of it as making sense or being right.

[/QUOTE]

No. You can understand it but you may not reason your way to finding it. In a way, I suppose, it must find you, and then you must listen to it through spirituality.

[QUOTE]

The reason I asked what you believe you do when you meditate is that I'm curious what you believe about intuition. How do you suggest that people recognize that they are further/closer from the truth? What I find interesting is that you believe the meaning of life is beyond reasoning, yet intuition is a process of reasoning. If it were to depend on anything else we would not be able to reasch the same truth, our commonality is our reason. If I was wrong before, and reason does depend upon language, then the meaning of life should be expressable.

[/QUOTE]

If you find it, there is no possibility of skepticism. You cannot approach the truth, it will come to you suddenly once the pieces have fallen into place. Until one reaches this point, one knows nothing. All can reach the meaning because the meaning is absolute and universal. I would think that religion in general sprang from our intuitive desire to find this. Civilization, like much else in our daily lives, is a means of ignoring this path to truth.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

Do you believe there are any consequences for not realizing the truth? It seems to be at a glance that to say "intuit something" or "be spiritual about something" leaves everything wide open to stumble on what is really not truth at all.

[/QUOTE]

As I said, once you discover truth, you know it is true. This conviction comes greater than confidence of one's own existance. The consequence for not realizing the truth is that you do not know it. However, eventually all people learn this truth.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

It's like expecting every man to re-discover Euclid or hell, calculus.

[/QUOTE]

That is a comparable analogy, I suppose.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

My sincere congratulations on having found the meaning of life. I believe there are, and have been, great spiritual teachers for a reason.
[QUOTE]

They too have found this meaning.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

I've always believed the "meaning of life" is somehow connected to Happiness, but so far reading what you've written it seems like you're not gonna reveal what you found to us. This means that even if you know some crucial information for the path to happiness, you won't share it to us. Anyways...i'm really curius...I guess i would have to meet you and meditate with you to learn what you were enlightened to.

[/QUOTE]

Happiness, in my belief, has nothing to do with the meaning of life. While it may bring you happiness, in of itself and in finding it happiness is not required and even detrimental. My best advice is to read major religious texts with great depth, to keep an open mind, intelligent skepticism, to study much, and to think in nontraditional ways. For example, through a bit of effort, I was able to visualize a tesseract, though I have unfortunately lost this ability. Also read the "greats" of history. Descartes, Einstein, Newton, Shakespeare, Jesus Christ are some examples, though in non-western culture many others exist as well. Art is one way to finding the truth, because art deals with abstraction in the purest form that we can fabricate. For me, this has been found through music. I am sure all other arts can do the same. It is less important to hear what it is they are saying than it is to think about what made them say it. The most important thing is to approach all subjects with an open mind, but always watching what it is you feel in your heart. Don't let your mind dictate your philosophy, this is an extremely tempting form of arrogance.</p>

<p>i really believe your way of thinking is great...but in a sense, it's so complicated that most people (including me) won't completely understand it. Isn't there a more accesible theory that explains the meaning of life? Does every "truth" have to be so hard?</p>

<p>I wish it was more simple.</p>

<p>But if it was, everyone would know it already.</p>

<p>Yet still, everybody can find it.</p>

<p>Videogamer, I realize there is little point in continuing to scratch at what you've said when I don't know what you actually believe (all I can say about that is "Sure"), but I still have some questions. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Yes, my point was that it is perfectly reasonable to me, but I cannot explain it to you or anyone else in such a way that they can see this reason... Our comprehension of reason itself is not enough to reason the meaning, but we can see it on an intuitive level.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Have you tried?
Yet you suggest reading the "greats." Jesus Christ, among others, explained the meaning of life, mostly through metaphors. Are there no metaphors in language you can use that approximate what you've found to be the meaning of life?
If you comprehend it, it must guide you/inspire you/"something" you in some way, and connect to your life. Couldn't that be some sort of starting point for explaining it? If it is perfectly reasonable to you, why wouldn't it be perfectly reasonable to us? I feel you're missing a step somewhere between intuition and conviction... I do believe stories (of mystics and prophets mostly... of revelation) of people jumping to an answer without going through the steps. That doesn't mean there aren't steps (even if it takes a while to recognize them).</p>

<p>
[quote]
In a way, I suppose, it must find you, and then you must listen to it through spirituality.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What is listening through spirituality?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Limon: going back to the God thingy...i'll answer this quick
interpretation i agree with: Having spiritual communications with God as a moment of self-reflection and personal improvement for the sake of spirituality and ones own path to happiness
i don't agree: Praying in hopes of getting something which you didn't work for and don't deserve.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think you're right.
One thing I know for sure about God is that those who believe God is love and all lights and smiles and wish-fulfillment have missed one important bit - love is terrible. We usually don't want our ultimate good in a practical sense, we don't really want to go through a lifetime of boot camp, we don't really want to change that much - and God is a pretty scary drill sergeant.</p>

<p>okay...any new people have more ideas to add?</p>

<p>umm...i think this post is falling away bc too many new posts are coming in...it was a great post with SOOO many views but its dying out...dont cry...OKYTDY- this is the best post on this site.....nice job!</p>

<p>no, we must still keep this up. I mean...what could be more important than the meaning of life? this thread definitely needs to be up forever so everyone can take a break away from School/College stuff.</p>

<p>Haha, this is the only thread on this site I like.</p>

<p>yes, limon i meant thread.....meticulous......Great thread oktdy</p>