<p>@NothingImportant How exactly does your post make sense?
If there is such a thing as IQ, it changes up till the late teens. And intelligence is so difficult to define that the most carefully crafted of IQ tests still cannot accurately measure all people’s mental prowess.
Frankly, I’m tired of the “socioeconomic factor”. Perhaps I’m just being prejudiced, but coming from a country where a ten thousand dollar income is considered upper middle class, it all sounds like whining to me. Poor students in the US don’t have access to resources? Really? Here, ‘public school’ is more often than not equivalent to ‘a couple of teachers handling all subjects for upward of five hundred kids’. Thankfully I skipped that trap and went private all the way.
And no, this isn’t Oppression Olympics. What I’m trying to point out is that we were still held to a really high standard (we follow the British system) despite the constraints. Honestly, compared to the exams I’ve had to suffer through, the SAT was a holiday - I mean, I’ve written three-hour papers on a single subject, two or three of them in one day. I agree that the exam is too fast-paced for most students and doesn’t account for individual strengths (there are kids who would breeze through a math section in ten minutes or so but sweat over the critical reading, and vice versa), but the actual content of the test shouldn’t be a challenge if you have access to a library. I can say that because none of my hundred-odd classmates had a chance to get test prep; we were a boarding school and we had our hands full with our own curriculum. Yup, for many internationals, SAT math is ridiculous - I see no reason why the States should ■■■■■■ people like that. Honestly, the kid isn’t going to die if you teach him quadratics or trig in eighth grade. Millions of students the world over didn’t. As for the critical reading and writing sections, it boils down to people not reading anymore (I don’t mean just sticking to vanilla reading lists - I mean really reading). If you’d been working through a medium-sized book every two weeks or so, you’d have picked up most, if not all, of the grammar rules that are tested on the SAT, as well as a healthy vocabulary and word sense - and you wouldn’t have paid a dime for it (okay, maybe the cost of a library card).
Personally I think it’s the US lower education system that needs a reform, not the tests at the end of it. I don’t see why the AP curriculum should be separate from the normal one - here, for instance, calculus was part of ‘ordinary’ math. I don’t think there are many kids who truly cannot pass the ‘advanced’ classes; most times, it’s because they have been coddled with substandard work all their lives.
<em>runs away and hides before people start throwing stones</em></p>
<p>I feel too!</p>
<p>@Bartleby007 “If free, online prep offered by Khan Academy is “sufficient” for the new SAT, then parents will be less willing to pay for expensive test prep, resulting in a significant loss of revenue for Elite and other test prep companies. Coleman’s proposed SAT changes directly attack Arguelles’ wallet.”</p>
<p>I’m an idealist when it comes to giving students a chance. I’m also a tutor, and I am glad they are offering free tutoring. However, unless Arguelles is priced at the low end of the market, and I’m guessing he is not, he will not likely be threatened at all by Coleman’s changes. In fact, Coleman’s changes will definitely help the tutoring industry for several years, and will likely not affect it in the long-run. </p>
<p>Here’s the worst-kept secret of all time: THE FREE TUTORING IS HERE - it is on THIS WEBSITE and MANY OTHERS. Kids, if you are reading this, click on Xiggy’s name he has some great ideas. In fact, you can get Khan Academy’s help for the current SAT right now! It’s on (I don’t know if I’m allowed to mention specific websites) the site where you get all the other free videos. </p>
<p>There are some sharks in the market, but unless you have personal experience with Arguelles, how do you know what kids in his program get? Before you paint with a broad brush, you should not assume all of us just throw out some word lists and call it a day. </p>
<p>You have no idea what quality tutors do for their kids. I care about and work for my kids, morning, noon, and night. Economics aside, free tutoring (again, I am glad it exists) is not going to make a huge difference. Do you know why? It is hard to get kids to study for the SAT. It’s human nature, people don’t prepare for things until the last minute. If a lot of my students didn’t have someone to help them along and coach them and hold them accountable, the students would not study nearly as much on their own.</p>
<p>Besides that, the way I teach the SAT isn’t just about “test prep,” it is about teaching them skills for reading and writing that will help them in their future academic career. </p>
<p>As to your other comment,
“For years, Elite Education, along with test prep companies like it, has been tilting the college admissions scales in favor of affluent high school students.”</p>
<p>If you think that tutoring is the cause of economic inequality in the college admissions market, is that because you are affluent enough, or naive enough, to not notice the wealth gap created by:
- The way schools are funded in America
- The cost of private school tuition</p>
<p>If you think the fact that kids can get some classes and some 1-1 tutoring for the SAT is more expensive, and has a greater impact on the wealth divide, than the factors I just mentioned, then my “SAT” vocabulary escapes me and all I can say is… wow.</p>
<p>@mathyone “I have an 8th grader and am wondering if I should try to get her though SAT testing in the fall of her sophomore year, which will probably put her at a disadvantage due to age/maturity/education or else take the new SAT.” </p>
<p>Please do your own research, but when I looked at it, it seems to only be for the Class of 2017 or younger. Therefore, even if your daughter was a grade ahead, she would still have to take the new version. You should definitely check before you invest the time and resources into preparing your daughter for the current SAT (if you see anything different, please let me know). Even if you could, I would not take such a step unless your daughter has certain qualities that uniquely position her for this incarnation of the SAT (such as an incredible vocabulary, even for an 11th or 12th grader). </p>
<p>I agree with Xiggi that you should not lose too much sleep over it because
- You can’t control it (except for choosing to have her take the ACT, or unless I’m wrong about my class of 2017 comment).
- Your daughter will be, almost exclusively, people who took the new SAT, which means they have all the same disadvantages in terms of not having access to the new exam as earlier, less resources available for prep, etc.</p>
<p>You make some excellent points about the inequality between CC and non-CC states. Could be the basis for some lawsuits IMHO. However, it can also have the effect of getting the non-CC states to accept the CC.</p>
<p>@mathyone
Correct to my last post. Even when giving free advice, I am obsessively thorough.
Now I’m seeing this (I explain after this why I thought differently"
“We’ve outlined the major changes to the SAT® and how they will affect the
K–12 community.
▸ Students affected: The first administration of the SAT will be in spring
2016. The first cohort of students to primarily take the redesigned SAT will
be the college entering class of 2017. However, some students will take
the current SAT before spring 2016 and then take the redesigned SAT
later. In those cases, it is recommended that students send both scores to
the colleges they apply to.”</p>
<p>When I looked this up earlier, I at first was having trouble finding the info from the College Board in spite of some extensive Google searches, so I figured I would check the basic info from the larger test prep companies, which is what made me think the information in my last post was correct:</p>
<p>Kaplan:
“The test change will impact students in the Class of 2017. If you are in the class of 2014, 2015, or 2016, these changes will not impact you.”</p>
<p>IvyGlobal:
For students who are in the class of 2014, 2015, or 2016, these changes will not affect you. However, for the class of 2017 and onwards, these changes will impact their preparation.</p>
<p>My apologies.</p>
<p>“when I looked at it, it seems to only be for the Class of 2017 or younger.” Class of 2017 can take the old SAT as fall juniors and 2018 can test as sophomores. The impact is by testing date not by class. Not sure what colleges will think since I’m sure the overwhelming majority of 2018 and 2017 will submit the new SAT.</p>
<p>“Your daughter will be, almost exclusively, people who took the new SAT, which means they have all the same disadvantages in terms of not having access to the new exam as earlier, less resources available for prep, etc.” This isn’t the point. The point is that the test is being changed in ways that will depend more on the particular hs curriculum. If the test is aligned to common core topics or testing, that will benefit kids in common core states and not those in the 6 non-core states, or those who covered the tested material prior to implementation of core instruction. If the test is made even more time-pressured that will tend to hurt the slow careful workers and reward those who work quickly. (I predict an uptick in the number of kids who discover they have LD’s and need extra time.) If the test requires close analysis and DBQ essays of historical documents, that’s nice for kids who get US history and gov in the first two years of hs and have already gone over those with a fine tooth comb, not so nice for those who haven’t had US history since 6th grade and have never even heard of those documents. If the test no longer tests “obscure” SAT words, kids who actually read and have large vocabularies will not have a way of showing that. These are all issues. For some the new test may be easier. For others it will be harder. For my daughter it will be harder and/or harder to distinguish herself on every single measure I can think of.</p>
<p>"Personally I think it’s the US lower education system that needs a reform, not the tests at the end of it. "</p>
<ul>
<li>jewelessien</li>
</ul>
<p>Perfect.</p>
<p>@@ The impact is by testing date not by class." Yes, I already issued a correction to that in the post several hours before yours.</p>
<p>When they release sample test questions on April 16, why not have your daughter do some practice ones, then haver her do some practice questions from the current SAT and see if one offers her an advantage. </p>
<p>
@testadvice: I couldn’t disagree more. If a percentage of potential Elite customers in Arguelles’ area find that Khan Academy prep is sufficient for SAT test prep, then they won’t sign up for classes at his office.
Having taught for the company, I’m very familiar with the company’s curriculum (instructor packets, class handouts, tests, quizzes, SAT practice tests, subject tests, etc.). I think I’m in a very good position to say that I know what he teaches and how he teaches it. The company goes to great lengths to standardize the education product being sold.
Out of curiosity, how many years have you worked as a test prep tutor?
I stand by that comment. I wouldn’t describe myself as “affluent” or “naive”…just realistic. You’ll notice I didn’t write that Elite and other test prep companies are the only things tilting the scales. Other factors certainly are at play.
Where do you work as a test prep tutor?
Elite is a CA-based company. In my area, the number of kids going through the doors of Elite (and other test prep companies like it) is impressive. Every year I worked there, I knew about half of all the names of kids accepted at my alma mater (one of the HYPS schools).</p>
<p>@testadvice, You quoted two test prep agencies citing impact by class year, which is why I said that’s the wrong way to think about it… If my daughter were in class of 2017, there would be no “impact” on her, since she would simply have taken the old test in the fall, like her sister did. Oh now I see that you were saying the test prep agencies were wrong. </p>
<p>Also, release of some sample questions is helpful but really one needs a full test to evaluate the time pressure, which is one of the main things they are testing in these tests anyhow. For a kid who says she reads slowly (I’ve never tried to quantify that so I don’t know how objectively true it is, but she does seem to read more slowly than other family members), who has careful, thorough, perfectionist type work habits, who gets stressed under extreme time pressure, my concern is as much about the number of questions as their reworking to fit curriculum she hasn’t had.</p>
<p>@mathyone - You said “You quoted two test prep agencies citing impact by class year, which is why I said that’s the wrong way to think about it… If my daughter were in class of 2017, there would be no “impact” on her, since she would simply have taken the old test in the fall, like her sister did.”</p>
<p>You missed the part where I cited them as examples of WHAT MADE ME THINK THE INFORMATION IS MY ORIGINAL POST WAS CORRECT:</p>
<p>Here was my entire post:
April 8
@mathyone
Correct to my last post. Even when giving free advice, I am obsessively thorough.
Now I’m seeing this (I explain after this why I thought differently"
“We’ve outlined the major changes to the SAT® and how they will affect the
K–12 community.
▸ Students affected: The first administration of the SAT will be in spring
2016. The first cohort of students to primarily take the redesigned SAT will
be the college entering class of 2017. However, some students will take
the current SAT before spring 2016 and then take the redesigned SAT
later. In those cases, it is recommended that students send both scores to
the colleges they apply to.”</p>
<p>When I looked this up earlier, I at first was having trouble finding the info from the College Board in spite of some extensive Google searches, so I figured I would check the basic info from the larger test prep companies, which is what made me think the information in my last post was correct:</p>
<p>Kaplan:
“The test change will impact students in the Class of 2017. If you are in the class of 2014, 2015, or 2016, these changes will not impact you.”</p>
<p>IvyGlobal:
For students who are in the class of 2014, 2015, or 2016, these changes will not affect you. However, for the class of 2017 and onwards, these changes will impact their preparation.</p>
<p>My apologies.</p>
<p>@bartleby007: “I couldn’t disagree more. If a percentage of potential Elite customers in Arguelles’ area find that Khan Academy prep is sufficient for SAT test prep, then they won’t sign up for classes at his office.”</p>
<p>But I hold to my “unless Arguelles is priced at the low end of the market” statement. Is Elite Education priced at the lower end of the market? If not, I would say it will not hurt them in any significant way. As I said, I’m glad the free prep is there for those who cannot, or are having trouble affording tutoring. For those who do not, they will not want “sufficient.” If you consider the cost of tutoring with the other costs of preparing for, and paying for, a college education, tutoring is a wise investment.</p>
<p>“Out of curiosity, how many years have you worked as a test prep tutor?”</p>
<p>Four years.</p>
<p>“Where do you work as a test prep tutor?”</p>
<p>If it’s all the same to you, I’d rather preserve my anonymity. What I like about this board is I can let my hair down, not worry if I’ve proofread my grammar. If I think people might know where I work, I would have to maintain a more professional image, and I already have to do that enough at work. This way I can do things like argue with you about whether or not we (tutors) are the root of all evil:)</p>
<p>“Having taught for the company, I’m very familiar with the company’s curriculum (instructor packets, class handouts, tests, quizzes, SAT practice tests, subject tests, etc.). I think I’m in a very good position to say that I know what he teaches and how he teaches it. The company goes to great lengths to standardize the education product being sold.” </p>
<p>You are in a good position to say what they do, but considering you see us as part of the problem, how are you atoning for your time there? :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>All of us have opinions on the above, and will have to speculate a bit longer about the accuracy of the statement. Inasmuch as we have a pretty good idea about how Elite and numerous similar companies work, we know absolulety nothing about the resources the College Board will offer Khan Academy. If the past and present are any indication, Arguelles can sleep profoundly on both ears. The past offerings of Sal for the SAT Math were instructive but hardly fun and inspiring. One can love the guy, but except for being free, it required a special student to sith through more than a few sessions. The current site, which offers a glimpse at the future, is at best at the level of similar offering and just a tad above the TCB paid tutoring site. On a personal basis, I would not spend much time Khan old and new site, and would have not used it more than a decade ago. </p>
<p>This said, with the resources and market intelliigence of KA --and the ability to recruit many people who REALLY understand the SAT-- there is hope that the end product will be better and abandon the current design and approach. </p>
<p>All in all, I maintain that The College Board is following the wrong path IF their objective is to level the playing field and really help the less advanatged. We do not need a Mario Kart approach to the SAT. but we (as in the world of students) is free access to ALL the past tests. In simpler words, we need access to the tests that the large tutoring companies acquire through semi-legitimate actions or totally corrupt ones as is the case in Asia. </p>
<p>Since the automatic release is so simple, the conclusion is that Coleman is either hypocritical or cynical. Or a combination of both! </p>
<p>@testadvice, sorry I did initially misunderstand your post.</p>
<p>@xiggi, Yes, it would be nice to have released tests for those who find that siting through videos is not the best use of their time. I doubt my daughter will make much use of that material. It’s just so much faster to read, and so much easier to skip to the parts you don’t know. </p>
<p>But I’m not clear on the logic of using a test of what are supposed to be basic skills, then having so much prep effort directed at it. If we’re going to set this up as a thing where we expect ordinary kids to put real time into prepping, why not go to a more rigorous test of more of what they are actually learning in school. I’ve never seen the O and A level tests, but I imagine they are more along the lines of what makes sense, if kids are expected to be prepping.</p>
<p>FYI <a href=“https://www.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files/test_specifications_for_the_redesigned_sat_na3.pdf”>https://www.collegeboard.org/sites/default/files/test_specifications_for_the_redesigned_sat_na3.pdf</a></p>
<p>So much for becoming more like the ACT :)</p>
<p>^^ Thanks for posting. That document looks like a job employment program / act for a whole lot of people. It is interesting to read what it is going to be tested. Eerily similar to what the test did before, it seems. Or maybe I am not reading critically enough. I am sure if I am wrong someone will correct. </p>
<p>On the math section, I don’t see radical changes. Yes, they have cut back on geometry and number property(remainders etc,) and raised emphasis on Algebra, but the style and format of the questions will be continuation of what they have tested in the past. My sense is that a lot of the older SAT official questions would still be relevant to the new SAT. </p>
<p>They have dumbed the reading section from high school level to middle school. As an 8th grader with a 670 in CR, the New Sat I can do without even trying, the old SAT I actually had to think about roots and stuff.</p>
<p>@wcao9311, did you try to do those questions in the amount of time you would have for them? </p>
<p>@mathyone Idid the questions for the new SAT in about 15 sec. a piece.</p>
<p>All the free KA materials won’t help a kid who lacks the motivation and discipline to put in the time to take advantage of the free resources available.</p>