<p>@mathyone - no worries, thanks for the acknowledgement :). Has the release of the test questions affected your feelings either way?</p>
<p>@testadvice, it is difficult to judge. My 8th grader is more of the slow careful type, she says she reads slowly, I know she doesn’t like to feel rushed, and so I am concerned about time limitations, for which a full test would be much more helpful. This site is full of stories from kids who weren’t able to finish the ACT. She is really too busy to worry about it now, but when she has more time this summer, I will try her out on whatever questions I can and see what she thinks.</p>
<p>I saw the article in the New York times which included the released questions from the new format and I found myself wondering about my youngest, who has Asperger’s. The new essay asked the writer to analyze the thought process of the person who produced the document. My child would be absolutely hopeless at that, despite the fact that she is a fine writer – great vocabulary, wonderful sentence structure. She’d probably also be okay if she were asked to deconstruct the essay and point to the flaws or weaknesses in the argumentation etc. but the way the question is written it requires Theory of Mind, which is not a skill set she will ever be particularly strong on. I feel as though the exam questions which I saw were written by someone who had no sense of people’s learning differences. </p>
<p>They also felt really American-centric to me. I wonder if on some level, it’s a ploy to make it harder for foreign students to get into American universities. </p>
<p>The one bright spot I did see is that it would be significantly harder to game the test. When my oldest kids did Stanley kaplan, it became a running joke that my daughter was able to answer ALL of her essay questions using two examples: nelson Mandela and Michael Phelps. Apparently that’s what they were taught – memorize a few pithy anecdotes and then practice shaping those anecdotes in such a way that they can be used in multiple scenarios with just a tweak here and there. My understanding is that kids in China are actually taught to memorize entire chunks of English and then how to fit those chunks into the mold so that they can be “dumped” into multiple essays. The essay example that the NY Times had would clearly make that more difficult. (My sense is that’s what the College Board isn’t saying – that this is just a way to make it harder for people to use tricks to alter their scores significantly.)</p>
<p>I was disappointed that we did not get more questions from CB. The next thing to look forward to is the release of the blue book, which is supposed to happen this Fall. </p>
<p>If you are seriously considering testing her for the current SAT, I would do a full-length practice test (under test conditions) and see where she is at. Then you will know what the road ahead would look like. </p>
<p>What kind of schools are you looking at for her, if you don’t mind me asking?</p>
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<p>I am afraid that you will find getting a perfect of close to perfect score on the official “new” SAT just as elusive as it ever was. In the end, the test will be calibrated to yield an average of 500 and you can safely expect the bell curve to remain quite flat at its extremes. </p>
<p>Fwiw, the fact that you find the test easier (or at least the preliminary parts that are released) does not mean it is dumbed down. It means that it fits your particular background and abilities better than it used to. Perhaps you do well in critical reading and have good reasoning abilities! The majority of the testers, unfortunately, are precisely weak in those areas. </p>
<p>My take remains the same: I expect a decrease in scores, and not the opposite! </p>
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<p>There is a lot of things that TCB could and should to make it harder for foreign students, starting with eradicating the blatant cheating that has permeated the testing for years. However, it is good to remember that TCB is owned by its clients and members – and that group is none other than the colleges. The same colleges that do not seem to give a damn about the fact that the qualifications sent from abroad are often as legitimate as a three dollar bill. It is known that the “packages” of students from many countries are fabricated with inflated grades, mercenary essays, and tests scores obtained through fradulent manners.</p>
<p>As far as the colleges, all they would REALLY need to do is offer probationary acceptances subject to a phone interview and a secure testing via computer to ascertain the validity of the application. Students who score high on the SAT verbal but cannot speak English beyond a 4th grade level will be caught easily. </p>
<p>But again, the schools do not care, especially if the students are full-pay. The same type of students who can purchase his or her application package. </p>
<p>If the test is easier, how do you “curve” a bunch of perfect papers? Do you now deduct 100 points for the poor kid who missed a single question to keep the average at 500? Pity the kid who misses 2 questions…</p>
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<p>Obviously the most important word here is “if” and since we do NOT know if the test will be easier or not, we can safely ignore the rest of the question. Again, the key will be how much recentering ETS/TCB will be interested in adding to this overhaul. Fwiw, the technical part of accomplishing this is a walk in the park for the Princeton boys as they know which questions will trip Joe Six Pack and be challenging for the Exeter boys and Kumon prodigies. </p>
<p>Again, my money is on a harder test, and one that will not be copycat of its inferior cousin in Iowa. </p>
<p>“Obviously the most important word here is “if” and since we do NOT know if the test will be easier or not, we can safely ignore the rest of the question.” It is one of three possibilities, and really the main one which concerns me. I wouldn’t ignore it.</p>
<p>Ignore it at … this time. And, know that it it were the case, ETS has plenty of tools to separate the 800 from the students who score lower. </p>
<p>I think it could be difficult for them to sort that out in the first few administrations. What if it becomes like math level 2? Notice how the 220 page document they released had words like draft all over it. They aren’t even willing at this point to commit to those being the kinds of questions they will ask. Obviously they can curve everything up if the test is too difficult but no, they do not have any tools to separate too many perfect papers.</p>
<p>wcao seems like the sort of overachiever that will be scoring high and his vote is that it’s much easier. I can imagine it being much easier for top students and not so much easier for middling ones. Although 4 answers instead of 5 and no penalty for wrong answers means that the curve as a whole should be higher and tighter.</p>
<p>My reaction is looks the same in general, but is a deeper test of logical and critical thinking skills. Easier vocab is not going to change things much because students still have to know vocal. The issue will be the same though, do they know the vocab on the test they take. </p>
<p>Before the release of the specific question examples, my concern was the talk it would be more like the ACT would result in average higher scores, which really would not do much to help colleges discern students. This new test though, as been pointed out, is not like the ACT - so much for the rumor mill.</p>
<p>In my undergrad, where grade deflation was in place 30 years ago, the professors would announce the first days of class how many As, Bs, etc. they were giving out. And they never failed to have tests that did just as they predicted, and these profs did not have the same granular answer range data per question as The College Board.</p>
<p>Therefore, I do think the testing companies have more than enough tools to recenter the test to whatever they want. And given their wealth of history of how different student cohorts answer questions of particular phrasing and complexity, they can probably get pretty close on the first one or two tests administrations. That’s my 2 cents worth; worth about 1/2 a cent.</p>
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<p>Humm, I think I now understand what you meant. A perfect “paper” as in having 100 percent correct answers as opposed to a “paper” that earns a double 800 through the help of a curve. </p>
<p>And, you are correct that ETS cannot retool a test that has 100 percent answers. It will be in the 99+ percentile, no matter what. On the other hand, I believe that ETS has plenty of tools to address the 800 that are earned through the curves, and plenty of tools to ensure that the number of 100 percent correct tests remains as close to zero as possible. </p>
<p>“plenty of tools to ensure that the number of 100 percent correct tests remains as close to zero as possible”. Sure. But if the test as a whole is easier, that means they either have to put in a few curveballs or they have to add in more questions to make kids miss more questions due to rushing or not finishing. Neither is good.</p>
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<p>And, again, we have a major disconnect here. You seem to think that it is a foregone conclusion that the test will be easier. I happen to think the opposite, and the problem is that there is NO evidence to indicate it will be one or the other. Obviously, based on history, I think the test will yield lower numbers, either through increased difficulty or through the adjusting curve. </p>
<p>Fwiw, I am not sure if the term curveball is appropriate here. That is just part of the test and is a misnomer. </p>
<p>They’re asking questions about what the writer is thinking? That’s the same thing they did on this year’s NY ELA state tests for middle school students. How is that reading comprehension? The text should stand on its own. Maybe the writer was drunk or had other unusual “lifestyle choices”, like some of our best authors. Is the reader supposed to figure that out too?</p>
<p>Does anyone know if we can just submit our old SAT score for Class of 2017? I’m thinking of taking it in December Junior year if I can get a good score. Or do colleges expect us to take the new SAT too? I read somewhere that if we take both of them, then we should send both scores, but I never read anything that stated the new SAT is required.</p>
<p>My daughter submitted her Dec of junior year SAT score with no issues. I doubt the colleges would expect you to retake it to do the new format if you had already taken it in dec of junior year. I expect they will just compare percentiles for your class, or deal with it however they are currently dealing with students who submit one or the other of the SAT/ACT. However, I don’t know what might happen if there are any SAT-based scholarships involved. It might be safest to contact the colleges of most interest to you and ask what they think.</p>
<p>@mathyone
"Notice how the 220 page document they released had words like draft all over it. They aren’t even willing at this point to commit to those being the kinds of questions they will ask. "
I noticed it. Statements such as that, have brought me closer to the “take the current SAT” if possible camp (for those students who are truly willing to prepare early). I have parents of 9th graders who have asked me recently what they should do. I lay out the options for them, but my advice for parents who want to do intensive prep is to take the current exam. Not knowing what will be on the test lessens the efficiency and advantages of their preparation for the exam. Plus, I’ve always been of the opinion that it’s better to get the heavy lifting (in terms of SAT prep) out of the way early. 11th grade is very, very difficult for most students. It’s best that they can take the test early in their junior year, do well, and move on.</p>
<p>@oniongrass - I’m not sure which sample question(s) you are referring to. But, if you are talking about the questions about why an author says something or what his or her opinion is, those are inferences a normal reading comprehension question would expect you to make. If that’s not what you meant, please post the question, and maybe I can help you with it.</p>
<p>@sjwon3789 - Unless you are going to a school that has an unusually draconian admissions policy, you will not have to take both. With that in mind, you should not wait until December to take it. I would get ready to take it in October, and then you can take it later and have time to prep if you’re not happy. Once March 2016 rolls around, you can’t take the current exam, and then you have to start your prep all over if you didn’t get the score you want.</p>
<p>I took the SAT recently and one section (100% sure it was the experimental) seemed very strange. It was a writing section that featured one long essay and asked us to correct underlined parts. Strangely enough, punctuation rules were on it. I couldn’t help but feel like I was taking the ACT (which is bad for me, as I perform better on the SAT). The only good thing was the time (I think it was 18 questions in 25 minutes). Overall, I feel like the new SAT is basically the ACT in disguise. My friends got the reading experimental and based off of their reactions, i think the reading won’t be like the ACT… it’ll be very similar to the current format just with some questions requiring you to justify your answer for a previous one. Also, more documents and even graphs in the reading. For the math, I heard it was very similar just more in depth and overall more difficult (testing skill not reasoning). I kinda don’t know how this will work out, but I am pretty sure the results will remain the same. The SAT is based on percentile after all. </p>