The Only College Fencing Recruiting Thread You Need to Read

Athletic Recruits
401

To parse this a bit more for @arwarw, Stanford is offering a super-elite school, a very nurturing fencing program and, hey, it’s gorgeous.

What it is not offering is strong recruitment commitments or a nationally competitive fencing program.

If you are of the school that you want an LL or NLI in your pocket, Stanford is almost certainly not for you. Pink Letters are almost as rare as T-Rex. Even with Lisa’s support, admissions is uber-competitive and you take your recruiting life in your hands if you put your eggs in the Stanford basket without a Pink Letter.

If you want a nationally competitive fencing program, Stanford is also not for you. The historical contenders are UND, OSU, Columbia, Princeton. Things are fluid as classes graduate and new recruits come in, but these have been the most consistent perennial challengers at NCAA Championships. Increasingly strong showings from UPenn and Duke, as well as strong recruiting at Yale and Harvard are worth noting.

Where Stanford has impact is to the extent to which top recruits hold-off on Ivy decisions pending an early response from Stanford. While Ivy coaches like to commit early, they may well hold a slot for a very top recruit even if the fencer places them 2nd to Stanford. Have seen this personally twice in the last 2 seasons.

For instance, in one case, Fencer #1 was being recruited by an Ivy. Fencer #1 applied early to Stanford. Fencer #2 wanted to go to the same Ivy. Fencer #2 was forced to wait because the Ivy really wanted Fencer #1. When Fencer #1 got into Stanford, Ivy found itself without Fencer #2 who had committed to another Ivy. So Ivy took a fencer much lower down the JNPL. Lots of moving parts and permutations…

Finally, must diverge a bit in opinion on Ivies treatment of athletes. Fencers at at least some of the top Ivy programs receive academic support, class scheduling preference, and are generally in an elite class at school. My son has received all of this support and more (a lot more) at his Ivy.

402

Thanks. Makes sense to me - Div I athletic reverence plus an HYP-comparable education. However, not sure I would forgo the bird in hand.

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I agree with brooklynrye. Athletes at at least one highly competitive Ivy receive first pick for classes

404

A few years ago, I noticed that the November NAC was sort of the start of HS seniors being more open about their commits/decisions. Possibly because it falls in the middle of the early signing period for the NLI. Will be interesting to see if that bears out in Kansas City.

FWIW, at a ROC this weekend, more than a few people (many who seemed surprised she was a senior) asked my daughter coded and not-so-coded questions about her recruiting/college process: from “Did you apply early anywhere?” to “Did you get your letter yet?” (<-- This person I guess assumed that she had applied early somewhere.) With her NLI paperwork in hand and signing date imminent, she was pretty open with most of the people who asked.

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Looking forward to your (hopefully) good news when the ink has dried on your daughter’s signing.

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Congrats, @SevenDad - how exciting!!

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X-post from another thread: Daughter signed her NLI today, the first day of the early signing period.

To paraphrase superdomestique:
“My daughter received an NLI and I owe it to all the great advice we got from the experts at College Confidential!”

Because she went the non-Ivy Div1 route, I do think I’ll have some experience/insight on that path to share with future prospect/their parents. But lemme get through this NAC first.

408

Quick report from Kansas City that at least some of non-Ivy Div1 recruits were repping gear from the colleges they have committed to. The rumored Ivy LL-holders (at least the ones I’ve heard about through the grapevine) did not.

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LL came in but, ummmmm, the language is not quite as reassuring as I was expecting. I would imagine that each school is different and that some students might feel more comfortable yelling it from the mountaintops, but in the meantime, I’m good to wait until the proper acceptance arrives. As College Confidential was my main source of advice in this process, I’m happy to share more details a little later down the line. @BrooklynRye! I would be interested to know if the text in the letter has changed at all in the last couple of years. :wink:

410

@chelsea465, feel free to PM me a copy of the LL. Honestly, I cannot for the life of me recall the text of the letter my son received. I do remember being firmly of the belief that the Ivy in question would honor the historical import of the letter. Never really worried about it… B-)

411

The wording in ours did not inspire confidence, and if I were a lawyer, I might have thought we would have been foolish to rely on it. Nevertheless, these things are what they are and have been for quite some time.

While Ivy LLs vary by school in their specificity and the level of comfort they provide, the LL is definitively binding in the same way any Ivy letter of acceptance is. A steep drop off in grades, legal troubles, cheating etc. are the only ways to fumble the ball at this point in the process.

As we are more than two weeks past the EA/ED deadline, I would imagine most top recruits should have/know their binding commitments by now and the remaining recruiting dominoes are in the process of falling.

Anyone who doesn’t have a commitment at this point, however, should not feel all is lost, but it is probably time to get aggressive/creative. Call coaches directly (or have your club coaches call on your behalf) to see what is still possible/available.

Earlier in the recruiting season there were a number of posters who really seemed to have the process figured out (experts-in-waiting) and some who wondered out loud about how to choose between multiple early recruitment offers. As I am more a believer that early recruitments that come to fruition are more the exception than the rule, I am curious to hear about this year’s recruiting class experiences with early recruiting and whether the intoxicating and seductive offers of “early non-binding commitment” is a siren’s song, or something that ultimately works out more often than not.

Controversial, I know, but the thread has gotten too quiet given all the good news that has come out in the last several weeks.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

412

At a tournament this weekend, I was able to pow-wow with a few parents/fencers and learn/confirm (I was sort of brazen in just asking people :wink: ) where some of the likely LL-holders and NLI-signers in daughter’s weapon type are going. Only a few ? left in this particular recruiting depth chart through the top -15 or so kids.

It will be interesting to see how this HS class of young women, who are mostly very friendly with each other, react to having to fence each other on the NCAA stage. I certainly hope the camaraderie continues!

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@SevenDad interesting that you mention this. Are you referring to current HS seniors or juniors? I have heard early recruitment going on especially in women’s sabre where there seems to be a shortage of academically proven juniors and seniors.

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Current HS Seniors…

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@duelist73 - The early recruitment to which you refer (or at least seem to be implicating) is indeed prevalent. I am personally aware of recruitment offers and commitments well in advance of the July 1st eligibility date, some as early as during the prior summer. In addition, there were fencers, currently juniors in high school, talking pretty openly about already committing to colleges for the class of 2023. Whatever the wisdom of extending NCAA recruitment and eligibility regulations to niche sports such as fencing, they are currently the law of the NCAA landscape. My understanding is that, the general understanding that such premature commitments are not binding until the ink is dry on the admissions acceptance (or at least on the NLI or LL, as the case may be), somehow renders such early offers not in violation of NCAA rules. Whatever expertise and experience I bring to this thread, the nuances and intricacies of NCAA recruitment rules is just beyond my consistent understanding. Exceptions, glitches, pardons, just seem to make these rules a moving target. Navigate this minefield with great care.

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@duelist73: One thing I do want to comment on with regard to your post #412 is that, at least in our experience, in the non-saber weapons most of the kids in the top 15 or so have grades/scores in the ballpark for even the most selective schools.

Using both the Absolute All-Academic Team lists and hearsay/commits…I estimate 2/3 of the top 15 or so kids in 7D2’s weapon/recruiting year meet the generally accepted threshold for Ivies.

A few NACs ago, I happened to share a cab with a coach from one of the elite clubs. We discussed the theory that only 50% of the kids in a given class will have the academics to be viable for a selective college. He disagreed, asserting that, in his experience, most of the top performing athletes from his club also had/have great grades/scores. I was not encouraged by that conversation…

Again, this is for a non-saber weapon. YMMV.

417

I know that the top three recruits this year in my son’s weapon all had Ivy-level stats, although 2 of the 3 (including my son) turned down Ivy options in favor of generous scholarships elsewhere. I believe the 3rd is Ivy bound, but I have only heard that through the grapevine, not directly from him. And I know another kid, among the top 6 recruits, who is definitely headed to an Ivy, so that’s at least 4 of the top 6 recruits this year with Ivy-level stats. (And the others may have as well, I just don’t know.)

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418

@Corraleno, of the top 3 recruits in each men’s weapon for 2022, I can safely confirm 7 of 9. Of these 3 to Ivies. 1 to Stanford. The other 3 of which I am aware are all “big box” including PSU and UND.

419

Hello group – during your recruiting year (HS junior) do you know if coaches look solely at junior NRPS, or do they also look at Cadet NRPS, especially if you’re still fencing cadet. Depending on birth year and school, some high school juniors are in their last year of cadet. Curious.

420

Hi, Fencingmom. During the year in which my son was recruited, he was also fencing cadet. College coaches are definitely aware of this level, particularly if your fencer is competing for or actually makes a Cadet World Team. However, they are looking for top junior level fencers. The jump from cadet to junior can be a big one. With solely cadet results, the coach is betting a lot more on potential than on current results.