To clarify in light of SevenDad’s well-documented post above. Coaches will not talk/meet with fencers on the NAC floor. They will also not get into recruiting negotiations. We found NACs an opportunity for basic face time, a chance to meet coaches, even superficially, and break the ice. It puts faces to faceless emails, resumes, and transcripts. At the outset of the recruiting process, we knew no one. We met most of the coaches with whom we ultimately had official visits, at NACs for the first time.
In our limited experience, we too have had some light superficial conversations, just as @BrooklynRye noted, and that helped with a follow up email to get things rolling for planning the unofficial visits. Also, a more extensive but general conversation with a Div III coach. It was more about what the school/program had than any specifics about the recruiting or qualifications of the prospective student.
Greetings from Virginia Beach, where I guess they don’t believe in snow plowing.
One thing that the recent posts have reminded me of is that, in many ways, the recruiting process (like so many things) is about developing relationships. So the putting a face (and a smile!) to a name/email is a good start.
Another thing for prospective fencers and their parents to consider doing at NACs is to see how coaches of various programs you are targeting interact with their athletes on and off the strip. Are they loud or soft-spoken? What is their demeanor after an athlete’s victory or defeat? And how do you think you/your kid might handle working with that coach.
Yes, I understand that often at NACs, the personal/club coaches are sometimes the ones working with the fencers, but I personally observed a number of NCAA coaches watching/working with their fencers in the venue yesterday.
The most impressive thing for me in VAB, attending my first NAC in about 2 years, was seeing so many of the 2022 fencing recruits perform so incredibly well. Please, to all of you nourished and mentored via this thread, share your experiences. They are truly, truly invaluable to those who will come after you. Many of the college coaches I spoke with in VAB (and so many were there!) are well into the 2023 recruiting season. Give your peer parents and fencers the benefit of your experience. You have so much to share!
Nothing new to share (yet), but I am hopeful of mooching off other parents’ experience(s) once again. Thank you in advance.
I am really looking forward to watching my daughter in her first NCAA competition this month. While I’ve been to both large and small USA Fencing tournaments and have gotten used to the controlled chaos of those, I’ve never been to any NCAA fencing. I am wondering how spectator friendly is college fencing? I would assume spectators are not allowed to just wander the floor from strip to strip, are they? Is there generally a sectioned off viewing area? Or is each venue different, so the answer is, “it depends”? Any “gotchas” I haven’t asked about, but should be aware of?
Thank you,
–S.F.
Attended the Temple Open this fall, and it was on the basketball court. Spectators were restricted to the stands. Could move around to get the best view. Elevated seating provided great unobstructed views. We could see over the director.
Really enjoyed seeing the different college teams’ pre-tournament cheer/huddle-up routine. There was more talent disparity than what I’m used to seeing at a NAC. There were college club fencers (who had obviously just started) fencing against world-class fencers. To me, seemed a little dangerous for the world-class fencers.
I think it depends. I’ve been a spectator at tournaments hosted by Brown, Columbia, Penn, and Princeton. IIRC, at Brown and Princeton, you could get closer to the action, more like a NAC. But at Columbia and Penn, there was a bigger buffer zone around the strips, as well as bleachers (at Penn, in the “overflow” room downstairs) to provide a higher vantage point.
arwarw’s point about the disparity in skill/experience/talent leads to some lopsided bouts — but also the chance for some unexpected upsets, especially in epee (which has more variability to it regardless). I watched a relative unknown beat then future-NCAA champion Anna Van Brummen at one of these events.
A few good spectating opportunities coming up in the NY/NJ/PA tri-state area over the next few weeks, including Ivy Round-Robins at Princeton Feb 10 & 11.
a friend calls them ‘wonky’ fencers- never know what they’re gonna do- uncharacteristic reactions compared to the NAC fencers and ultimately very difficult to fence.
BTW- did anyone feel like they made mistakes during the process? I didn’t think of the perils until I heard about a squandered ED application over the VAB weekend. Any warnings to leave for others?
Uh oh – can you share anything more about what you mean by a “squandered ED application,” @chelsea465 ? (without giving away any details the person wants to be kept private of course). As someone starting to wade deep into the process, I would also be interested in any other words of caution. There are some in the various posts from this community, but anything additional is welcome. Thanks!
While my husband was pushing for the best school academically possible, I was a bit more of a ‘bird in the hand person’ and ultimately it wasn’t our choice anyway. I was surprised to hear of a good fencer that applied ED, with coach contact, but no clear support, and was rejected. I don’t want to rely on second hand info. I’m sure there were other details that I’m not privy to, but I was reminded that it’s not all candy and roses.
We found the coaches to be fairly open and direct, “I’m not recruiting that weapon this year”, “How are your scores”, “Let’s talk about a recruiting spot”, but perhaps they aren’t as direct with an outright “no, thank you”
Make sure you are hearing the same thing that the coach is saying, and if you are unsure, ask for clarification.
Despite a great outcome for my daughter, there were definitely mistakes that we made that people can learn from. I’ll try to phrase them as proactive vs. cautionary.
- Be extremely realistic about your kid's appeal to schools — and in some cases, to a specific school. I think I may have noted this above, but I think that, generally speaking, parents have an inherent bias toward seeing their kids in the best light. And I think this works against your kid in the recruiting process. Because you could overestimate his/her attractiveness to various programs and end up wondering why nobody seemed that interested. I included the bit about "to a specific school" because you have to think about the current roster (among other things). How deep are they in your weapon type/gender? Because you could be the #1 WF recruit in your graduating class, but if that school got the #1 WF recruit of the previous year and needs WS and WE this year, you might not be that attractive to that particular school. (As noted by chelsea465 above.)
- Don't forget about the academic aspects of all of this. Again, I may have stated this in my most recent post or even well upstream. The fencer's academic profile matters. Probably more than you (the collective "you") are weighing. For the academically rigorous/more selective schools, I might even argue that no amount of fencing talent can overcome significant deficiencies on the academic side of things. (Yes, I'm sure we can find cases where it happened...but they will be few and far between.) A related consideration is "is this school a good academic fit for my kid". Beyond the school being strong in the area of study you kid wants to pursue, you have to really ask yourself if your kid will be able to handle the workload (on top of fencing).
- Cast a wide net. Remember the 7-3-1 guideline I mentioned? Keep in mind that before we got to that 7 number, we considered an even wider range of schools, both Div1 and Div3. And even then, I think we probably could have done our DD on more. And even if your kid has the academic chops to be an Ivy contender, it's a great idea to still include non-Ivies — heck, even a "big box" school or two — on your list.
- Be sure to discern between what is said by a coach and what you thought you heard/wanted to hear. Chelsea465 gets at this in her post #470. Try not to read too much in to statements that aren't direct/clear. Do not leap to conclusions/make assumptions.
Hello Everyone, I am new here. I have a question. Does the fencer only need to compare others in his/her graduating year in the cadet or junior national ranking?
Thank you.
I believe most coaches are more concerned with the Junior ranking, although some did briefly inquire about cadet results
@Happylife4: Yes, for college recruiting purposes, that is what matters. Of course, the higher the better…but one could be outside of top 32 overall Junior points list and still be fairly high up within one’s graduating class.
@SevenDad :Right, some older and also younger fences can be very good and on the top list. Thank you for the information.
@fencingdood, ok, I see. Junior ranking will be more important. Thank you.
@Happylife4 I’ll add it really depends on the level of school you are targeting. Junior points list standing, and your relative standing in your academic year IS important if you are trying to get a Ivy recruitment slot or be recruited to other top 10 fencing schools like Notre Dame.
However, outside the NCAA top 10 fencing schools and Ivies, and especially for Div 3 schools, there’s not really an expectation that you are on the points list. Most collegiate fencers in Div 3 were not on the Junior points list in high school. Even within Ivies and other top 10 fencing schools there are non-Junior points list fencers on the squads.
While you may not get a Likely Letter offer/recruitment slot from an Ivy coach if you’re not on the points list, you may be welcomed to the squad as a walk-on if you can get accepted at the school. Also, some of the non-Ivy schools in the top 10 carry large squads and will take non-points list experienced fencers as walk-ons. If you meet with coaches at summer nationals between junior and senior year, they will general be up front about your standing for possible inclusion their squad, whether it be as an official recruit or a walk-on.
And as @SevenDad pointed out in post #471 above, academic standing – grades and standardized test scores – are a key part of the process.
Ah, I think I misread your question. I was focusing on the “compare others in his/her graduating year” part.
I agree with fencingdood that Junior points matters more. That said, if someone was on the Cadet World Team then, for whatever reasons, dropped well down in the standings…I’m sure s/he would still be of interest to college coaches. I can think of more than a few fencers at top programs who sort of fall into this category.
And then, there are the great points made by stencils in post #477.
@stencils and @SevenDad, your inputs are really helpful. Now I have better understanding on the college fencing recruiting process. My daughter is in 7th grade, she likes to do fencing, but we just started two years ago. I know the college recruiting is too early for us, but still this information is very helpful. Thank you so much.