Dang, NYC really is the center of the universe when it comes to fencing. If it wasn’t a six hour drive, we’d attend.
@stencils - Kind of like going to a college fair just for fencing recruits. You always have us, Stencils!
For all fencers/parents approaching the college selection process, this article is an excellent summary of admission percents, SAT/ACT mid 50% ranges, and salary outcomes for NCAA fencing schools. It’s really nice to have all of this in one list.
http://nationalfencingclubrankings.com/colleges-ranked-earnings-alumni/
The default sort is based on median salary 10 years post-graduation for each school, which includes some schools that may be surprises near the top of the list. Stevens scores particularly well, ahead of some Ivies, due to the high percentage of STEM majors there. Lafayette is the top LAC in the list, finishing in the top third, again likely due to a high percentage of engineering students.
For female prospective college fencers: recently Cornell (which has a women’s varsity program and a men’s club program) announced that they are adding Olympian Nicole Ross to their coaching staff.
FYI, have also heard rumors that Cornell may move to reestablish its men’s fencing program. This would be great!
My daughter (HS senior this year, C rated foilist) visited Lafayette and liked the campus and the academic program she’s considering. She has not been in contact with any of the fencing coach staff there yet.
The Lafayette team is the only NCAA fencing program designated as “mixed” as opposed to separate men’s / women’s. There aren’t enough women on the team to field a full roster for women’s events, so the women on the team competed very little last year, and when they did, they had to forfeit bouts due to an incomplete squad.
What does the “mixed” designation mean? I spent some time trying to find information on the NCAA website, but couldn’t find anything definitive.
Does anyone have any general insight into the program, coaching, and school support for fencing at Lafayette?
Thanks in advance for any info!
I can give you a little insight into Lafayette’s coach’s and athletic department’s (lack of) responsiveness to recruiting inquiries. I am a huge fan of LACs, especially the few, like Lafayette, that are gender balanced, and several years ago encouraged my daughter to give Lafayette a look. She completed the online recruiting questionnaire and reached out to the coach by phone and email, but never heard a response. This was particularly odd given that her academic stats were above average for the school and she fenced at a higher level than most of the team.
After she heard nothing I followed up with the athletic department, was advised by an Assistant Athletic Director how to proceed, and followed those instructions, including sending this email to the Head Coach, the Assistant Coach, and copying the Assistant AD:
We never heard a word in response, we visited and took the standard tour, but DD was unimpressed. More than anything, the experience reinforced her desire to attend Duke.
In retrospect, this was a case of the applicant doing everything correctly and the coach and Athletic Department doing everything wrong.
Edit to add: I just checked the Lafayette fencing webpage and see that the head coach that ignored my daughter is still there, but now as an assistant coach
Thanks @sherpa for the insight. It sounds like the program is very casual for a Div 1 school, relying mostly on walk-ons. Either that, or perhaps due to the mixed designation they only actively recruit male fencers?
Does the mixed designation mean if a female fencer was in the top 3 on the squad, she would compete in men’s events (if she wanted). I don’t think my DD would really want to do that, just curious.
A question came to me via PM which I think poses an interesting conundrum. Thoughts please… Highly ranked junior fencer is recruited by several top programs. Fencer receives oral ‘offers’ of recruitment slots from several colleges.Fencer accepts one of these offers, however, the school in question recommends that the fencer not apply ED, but apply RD. Question, despite the reassurances from the school of choice, should this fencer nevertheless file RD application with the other schools on the fencer’s list?
My initial reaction is to absolutely apply to other schools RD; it is not binding and keeps whatever options that family has open.
A few assumptions (pls correct me if I am wrong)
- This fencer is a current senior
- The first choice school is not an Ivy (LL is not part of the conversation).
This conundrum brings up other questions:
- What are the reasons the first choice school suggested RD over ED?
- Is this fencer the absolute 1st choice for the given weapon/gender?
A few suggestions:
- If this fencer has other EA/ED/LL options, to make sure the 1st choice school is aware of the level of interest at the other schools (we really want to come to ____, however it is hard to turn down a LL letter in October…)
- If you do apply to other schools, make sure your 1st choice hears this directly from you and that you are just keeping your options open. Assuring the coach this school is your first choice, but hedging the knowabables is completely reasonable. (it is a long time until April 1st without something in writing. An injury, coaching change, etc are the unknowables that can really be stressful while waiting).
Hope this helps. Let us know what happens
I agree, it sounds odd. Perhaps there was a concern about the financial aid offer being acceptable since ED is binding and there’s no chance to negotiate/compare aid offers? Of course if it’s an Ivy, then any aid is strictly need-based, but if it’s a non-Ivy, then there could be a merit possibility and perhaps the school is more generous with RD vs ED merit.
My understanding is that there are non-Ivies that have recruits apply RD for a couple of reasons. First, primary recruits may take up the coach’s allotment of ED admissions, i.e., pure recruitment slots are used ED. Second, the coach has a certain amount of “support” votes that get kids in, but can only use those for RD applicants. Not sure of all the machinations, but have discussed bits and pieces with DV1 coaches and gleaned some of this.
Can any of the experienced (meaning "kid in or through a NCAA fencing program) speak to the concept of the AI (Academic Index)? With the Oct SAT results now available, I’m curious how to interpret the results that come out something like the Tier One Athletics AI Calculator.
Specifically, if you know, could you share what sort of AI the various programs are looking for?
In case people want the link to Tier 1 AI Calculator:
http://www.tier1athletics.org/2012/10/01/academic-index-calculator-2016/
Generally, I know that some schools (in my experience, specifically the Ivies) subscribe to a floor AI. I know for a fact, directly from coaches and fencers at these schools, that there are exceptions. In particular, I know that some schools require mandatory tutoring sessions for recruited athletes who are below the minimum AI. So there is some flexibility, but this index is definitely used as a guideline.
Thanks BrooklynRye…any sense of what the “floor” might be for some of the more competitive teams/schools?
When I was engaged in the recruitment process firsthand, the Ivies with whom I spoke were using the 240-max score scale for Academic Index. Don’t hold me to this, but I believe the minimum was around 216. If you use an AI calculator, you will find that this is roughly 750 on each section of the old SAT and on each of the SAT II test, together with Top 10% in a graduating class of 250-300. Falling back to an average of 700 per section of the old standardized tests puts you below 210. Big variables include the size of the athlete’s high school graduating class and their class rank.
@sevendad, while I don’t think the following made the greatest hits from the old thread, these were my thoughts on AI:
“The Ivy League has an agreement with its member schools that it can only accept students within a certain range of academic index scores. The highest AI is 240 and anecdotally it seems difficult to get accepted at an Ivy with and AI less than 175. While this range varies from school to school, most Ivys need their athletes to have an average AI in the 205-210 range.
This means that if they take some real geniuses, they can go lower in other areas. Sometimes average athlete with an outstanding AI may get recruited so a school/team/program can also recruit an outstanding athlete with a lower AI. A school’s average AI can also go across sports, so a team of high AI fencers can help the football team recruit lower AI athletes (or vice versa…haha).
Calculating your AI once your junior year grades and test scores are available should really give you an idea of where you realistically stand in the recruiting process and hopefully will help in scheduling those post-SN/pre-senior year meetings with the coaches.”
Generally, I think the AI of fencers is higher than the general Ivy athletic population and are often used to offset the lower AI of other sports.
@BrooklynRye - How do class size and rank affect the AI? I was under the impression that the inputs were SAT/ACT scores, SAT Subject Test scores (the new name for SAT II, but I still think of them as Achievement Tests 
) and GPA on a 4.0 scale (if unweighted). Am I missing something?
I am not overly-familiar with AI calculations as this never came up in my son’s case, however, there is apparently weight given based on class size and rank. As a matter of common sense, I assume that a larger class size is deemed more competitive and that, therefore, a high rank is deemed more significant. This may just be a way of offsetting somewhat generic class rankings which can differ so much from school to school and may be diluted by small class size. Check out this link previously posted on CC to an AI calculator:
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/academic_index_calculator/
My son fenced for Lafayette and had a very good experience there. He was a good HS fencer, D rated, did local tournaments and a few NACs/SN’s. The good things are that as a C rated fencer you will fence varsity,the team is pretty laid back (so you can skip practice if you have a test) but they still compete a full schedule, you will get to qualify for Regionals. There is good parent support for the team, they come watch the meets and bring food etc. Lafayette has hosted Regionals twice recently which is also a lot of fun. The not as good thing about the program is that the coaches are part time (they have regular full time jobs) and they do not recruit so they do not always get all the fencers they need in each weapon. If you like the school and it fits your academics it would be a good fit because you will get to fence, where as a C rated fencer you might not get to fence much at the bigger schools.
I’m not sure on the mixed team, I think it has to do with NCAA and Title IX rules. They run the team the same as the other comparable college teams. If you go on the website you can see the roster and the schedule. If you are interested send the coach an email to let him know you are applying and he may have some influence on your application. Coach is Jarrod Rottau, rottauj@lafayette.edu