Visit schools to assess the physical layout vis a vis location of dorms relative to gym and training venue. Examples off the top of my head – When we visited OSU we were struck by the 20-minute shuttle ride to get to the training facility. Heard they were renovating, but not sure if that moved the facility closer to campus. Seem to recall that Harvard’s training facility is also off campus (although in Cambridge it’s a pretty minor walk). Columbia’s is pretty much dead center of campus. Definitely something to assess on-site (or, I guess, through someone you really trust).
Most DV1 programs offer training. How much beyond the standard practices and training associated with practices is another thing to assess. Some programs actually bring in outside personal trainers to work with fencers. Depending on your fencer’s devotion to personal training, it may be worth researching resources outside of the school even if you are using the college gym and training facilities.
Missing classes at elite schools will always be tough. Communicating early with professors, introducing yourself and explaining your situation shows respect and carries a lot of weight. It does not remove the pressure of missing classes or of compressing exam schedules, but it does help to get advance work and to reschedule tests and even finals. The more interesting thing in this area is the influence the coach may have. It is good to inquire about the willingness of the coach to intercede on the student’s behalf to help with these academic issues.
Keep the questions coming, Fencingmom! These are very important.
@RRRtex I agree, if your fencer is not currently on the points list, a Div1 recruitment is too far reaching. But Div2/3 might be a fit depending on experience/rating/academics.
I would advise going to as many Junior events as you can because you said your child is committed and has made big strides in the sport. There is merit simply in that – doing something you enjoy and making progress. Results from the bulk of the season can be used as discussion fodder with some coaches if that seems appropriate at the time.
I would not suggest fencing Div1 events unless the event is easily accessible, and demands no missed school days. Div1 is hard, and unless your fencer is truly ready for a level up challenge or relishes all experiences, losing all pool bouts and being cut from DE’s is a hard hit to absorb for most people. However, depending on your child’s temperament, such an experience could still be fun, and fencing with nothing to lose could yield some unexpected results.
Thanks for the input — much appreciated! I get that many of the upper level Div 1 programs are probably out of reach fencing-wise, but it does seem like several lower level programs (at some really fine schools) have plenty of fencers who were not on points list. Perhaps they got on the teams after they were accepted by admissions…
One more quick question, as I’ve seen conflicting info and heard (somewhere, who knows?!) that rules might have changed. Are students who are Juniors able to meet with coaches at events (such as NACs), or is the rule still not until Nationals after their Jr. year?
Hi all, I’m new here. I have read the posts for a few months and it’s full of great information, but now I am interested in my daughter creating her fencing resume and I cannot find where someone had it posted, they had an example of what should be on it. It was somewhere in this thread way back but no luck finding it again.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks!
dinjimh, I have a feeling that the fencing resume is less a document etched in stone and more a product of the achievements the particular fencer is able to highlight. If the fencer is a legitimate candidate for recruitment by a top DV1 program, stick to results achieved once the fencer is in high school, and generally only report top 32 or better finishes. For the most part, if not entirely, eliminate local tournaments. Regional events should be limited to very large and/or more well known events that may be significant to a prospective college coach.
If not targeting these DV1s, or in any case not having these kind of results, best to highlight top accomplishments the best you can. This is very akin to the way any resume is developed to maximize assets even if they are perhaps a bit less than optimal. We know a D-rated fencer, with no national or even exception regional results, who prepared a highlight reel such as is more commonly done in lacrosse or other more popular sports. The reel was very creative, had some emotional impact, and exhibited a lot of personal aspects that might not otherwise come across. This fencer successfully parlayed recruitment into one of those smaller elite programs.
P.S. Final thought. I believe a regular poster on this thread, @stencils(?), can respond to this question in much greater detail.
Tex - Will defer to SevenDad who has much more current experience with the process. However, coaches will not talk to you in the venue during actual competitions, even at Summer Nationals. Other than official “blackout periods”, coaches can meet with you during unofficial campus (funded and initiated by the fencer) visits throughout the junior year. Coaches can also have contact with fencers via phone, email, text after September 1st of the junior year. If you are talking about official meetings with coaches at Summer Nationals, the general rule of thumb is after July 1st, after junior year in high school; sometimes a bit earlier depending on NCAA waivers and other circumstances. Once the fencer starts his/her senior year of high school, you can have official visits paid for by the school(s).
To circle back on @fencingmom’s post #673: I think BrooklynRye covered most of benefits/services/support offered.
A few additional points from my daughter’s recruiting journey and her experience this summer registering for classes, housing, etc.
At one school, the fencers are guaranteed a room with either a private bathroom or a bathroom shared with an adjoining suite...the coach told us they didn't want their athletes to be inconvenienced with having to walk down the hall to a bathroom. This sounds minor, but IMO, is sort of major.
The dorm my daughter will be in is attached to a dining hall...which not every dorm is. Again, seems minor, but a very welcome convenience.
This will depend on school, but many schools handle all armory/weapon repair for their athletes. I do know of one Ivy where the coach WANTS the fencers to do their own armory/weapon repair. So that they are always ready to handle whatever comes up.
Equipment: While the amount of swag athletes get will vary by school, I've heard kids call the day they get their team gear "Nike Christmas".
At many schools, all athletic gear (including whites) is washed for you...daily. At my daughter's school, we were told that only one set of whites is needed thanks to this service.
Again, school dependent, but it seemed like many of the schools we visited had varying degrees of "training table/grab and go" food and drink available. Like, had a weight room session and are hungry? Grab a protein shake and a banana before you back to your room or class. Free (though there are limits on how much ou can take).
The nutritionist/sports medicine/training room stuff should not be underestimated...have you seen what the facilities are like at D1 schools...especially schools that are powerhouses in sports other than fencing? They're OTT. And for athletes, it's all free. They want you to use these services!
More than one school my daughter visited sends the entire team to the January NAC (Junior and DIv1 events). All expenses paid, complete with per diem for meals.
Tutoring/Academic Counseling/Class Registration...most if not all of the programs we are most familiar with (all Div1) have a dedicated rep assigned to a team/individual. So earlier this summer, my daughter's academic rep reached out to see if she had any questions and also give advice on class registration process. She was able to register in the first window possible, and one mandatory frosh class was assigned to her in the fall semester so as not to conflict with the season too much. She was also able to request a tutor for a specific class, in advance.
Some schools have a dining hall just for athletes...so if you miss regular dining hall hours due to practice or whatever, you can eat there. I've heard that my daughter's team often plans to eat dinner together.
TBH, I think the fact that all of these things are available on the same campus, without — for the most part — having to drive (or be driven by mom/dad/Uber) helps student-athletes balance their many different obligations. Just think about the time they spend in the car now…all of that can now be used to rest, do homework, etc.
But getting that [INSERT SCHOOL NAME HERE] “athletes only” backpack though…rocking that on campus is priceless!
I’ll write more for RRRtex about the NAC schedule junior year when I get home, but I wanted to add some color commentary to saharafrog’s helpful link to stencils’ original fencing resume post. By and large, I agree with BrooklynRye’s points…my daughter’s fencing resume only included NAC-level results, unless she medaled at an SYC, RJCC or ROC. We do have a local/regional series that is usually an A2 or better, so strong showings in that that was included. She did include some HS scholastic league stuff, but only because she was a true standout at that level…winning two individual championships and anchoring an undefeated squad as a freshman. As BrooklyRye said “highlight top accomplishments the best you can”!
Because my daughter didn’t necessarily have the strongest final results at NACs and was sort of in the second-tier of recruits for her graduation year, I thought it was important to include mention of some key bout wins (pool or DE) vs. elite (national team or international standouts) and top college fencers in recent seasons…to show that she could hang with strong more experienced fencers. We had video of many of these bouts, which my daughter sent coaches links to. Our thinking here was “Okay, so maybe she lost in the 128 at that last NAC…but she beat an Olympian in pools, so that’s got to count for something, right?”
Thanks @SevenDad — look forward to hearing more later. And I’m glad you brought up the other highlights besides just a final result at a National tourney. Undefeated in pool round at Jr NAC and Div 1A Nationals should count for something too, right?!
@RRRtex: Regarding the off-campus meeting rules…I scanned the NCAA site just now and could not find clarification — the recruiting guide I found does not seem to have been updated (look at row for “All Other Sports”…the OV timeline still says Senior year) to reflect the OV changes announced for 2018-19 school year — namely, that OVs are now permitted in a recruit’s Junior year.
If and when I find info that clarifies things, I’ll be sure to post it.
Regarding strong pool records at NACs, I think your son should definitely mention that in his notes/updates to coaches, but it may be tough to present that in an resume format? If you haven’t seen the Michael Aufrichtig TED talk…he definitely underscores importance of success at 5 touch bouts for college prospects.
Okay, going back to your question on NACs during a prospect’s junior year…I think my advice aligns more with Brooklyn Rye’s. I think you should try to get to as many NACs as you can financially afford to go to…with the possible exception of the Dec. NAC (which is Div1 only, unless your fencer is eligible for Div 2 events as well). I recently spoke with another parent who lamented the school days missed for NACs, and I didn’t know what to say. I mean, a lot people do it, right? And they’re not all home-schooled.
FWIW, I think the ability to manage school work despite missed class time as well as the ability to self-advocate/negotiate missed days, etc. is all part of the package. Maybe we just lucked out with my daughter’s schools being flexible about things.
@SevenDad – you have to really dig into the NCAA bylaws for nitty gritty information. Here is the link – the search feature is adequate but you have to sift through. https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/
And thanks for all the specifics about athlete support at the Div1 schools – starting to think about the day to day experiences at these schools.
Thanks for the help. She’s not looking at the top Div 1 schools, so maybe she will not need the resume. She is just starting her junior year.
I will be reading through this thread some more and will come back if i have more questions. There is so much to learn and read about.
Wow, a busy few days here while I’ve been tied up with work! Thanks @saharafrog for digging out the fencing resume.
@RRRTex the info below deals specifically with a fencing resume, but I think it’s applicable to you since my D was not on the points list, but is currently fencing at an excellent Div 1 fencing school in the top 10 with a team, coach, and school she absolutely loves. She had enough individual success to qualify for NCAA regionals even though she’s not top of the roster on her team.
@dinjimh I’d really suggest doing a fencing resume, but I’d say it’s not really necessary until the second half of junior year if you’re not targeting Ivy or top 5 fencing schools. My own daughter was a B rated in her junior year, and not on the points list. She was not really a target for top 5 or Ivy league recruitment, but got plenty of recruitment attention from non-Ivy div 1 teams below top 5, and top div 3 teams. We found the resume a good initial contact. With the right information, it establishes:
Your fencer is viable academically for admission and is considering the school
Your fencer is serious about communicating with coaches and fencing in college
Their level of fencing success
All the appropriate contact info in one place
My D didn’t have any NAC podium finishes, but won or finished well in large regional events (ROCs/RJCCs primarily). She included the size and rating of the events on her resume, since she wasn’t sure coaches would take the time to look up that these events were high quality – not NAC scale, but perhaps an A3 event with over 60 fencers.
There wasn’t a single coach that didn’t respond to her resume email. Even the couple of Ivies she sent it to (ones not typically in the top 5) replied with a polite “we can’t recruit you, but if you get accepted on your own, we’re interested in you.” Div 1 coaches outside the Ivy/top 5 and all the Div 3 coaches were generally very interested and followed up regularly. She had many (I think 7) meetings with coaches at SN after her junior year (about half and half between D1 and D3). She could have had many more, but that was the list of schools she chose based on academic fit and other factors. She also did a couple of unofficial visits her junior year.
The moral of my story is one I say here from time-to-time. If your child loves to fence and is pretty good, they don’t need to be on the points list to be interesting to coaches. You do have to do your homework and target appropriately for both academic and fencing fit.
@dinjimh: I would probably go through the exercise of putting together a resume anyway. First, it will allow you to see what talking points would be good to highlight in communications with the coaches. Also, I think it will help you fill out inquiry forms in a consistent manner. And finally, I think it’s something tangible to send/give to coaches…a one-pager that addresses both academic credentials and fencing experience/accomplishments. The guide that stencil outlined earlier in the thread is extremely helpful, IMO.
For people new to the thread, I do think it’s worth starting at the beginning…the first few pages contained a “greatest hits” of the various fencing-related threads to date, along with links to the originals as well as to other resources. Again, great to see some new screen names on here as the next wave of recruiting starts to heat up.
@dinjimh I’ll add that as the parent of a current rising HS junior (who is not a fencer, but a dancer – thus the current avatar!) I recognize (and so will coaches) that she may not have taken SATs, ACTs, or APs yet. Until we had these, the lines on the fencing resume listed AP classes in progress, expected test dates, and current GPA and rank.
Updating the resume as new academic results came in later in junior year and early senior year made for an easy excuse for follow-up contact with coaches, as does any change in fencing status (good event results, new rating).
@stencils and @SevenDad thanks for the advice.
She’s a solid C rated fencer, hoping for B this year. We do not get to many National events due to cost but she does regional and local. This year we should get her to some NAC’s. She is a 4.0UW GPA student and would love the NYC area. Next month she is going to tour Columbia (she knows she can’t fence here, would be strictly academics), NYU, St. Johns and Wagner. She has no idea on a major so she’s open to different schools, wants to see if one has a better feel that the others. The last 2 have great merit scholarships if she keeps up her grades junior year.
I’ll see if she can get a resume together soon and try to send it out to a couple of the coaches from the schools above before she goes. Since it’s summer I assume she won’t be able to get a hold of them at the colleges when she’s there. I know she still has junior year to go but summer is the only time we can travel that long to check out the schools and she wants an idea of what she likes.
@stencils That’s great to hear that all the coaches at least responded back to her.
@stencils — Thanks so much for relaying your daughter’s story, as it sounds like she was around the same place my son is fencing-wise. Strong B-rated fencer with great regional success, but not necessarily strong national finishes. Did she receive assistance in the admissions process from her coach, or were her academics able to stand on their own? Glad to know she’s had great fencing success, but even better that she loves her school!
@RRRtex: I’ll take the liberty of answering your question to stencils ("Did she receive assistance in the admissions process from her coach, or were her academics able to stand on their own?).
I think stencils and I would agree that our kids were pretty similar prospects (with his daughter having stronger academics and my daughter having (slightly) stronger fencing results at the time of their recruiting process)…
For certain, my daughter’s status as a recruit helped her get into the school she will be attending). Her UW GPA was very high, but she didn’t go full IB or max out APs like you’ll see a lot of applicants to selective schools do. And her SAT scores, while in the ballpark for recruited athletes at even the most selective schools (generally accepted as 1400+), were not in the 1500s.
