@downallunder - I think that what makes the OP’s posts so refreshing is his honesty, both with himself as well as with others on this thread. My sense is that he is well aware of the recruiting limitations most often present with relatively low rank. As you concur, even with such limitations, under the right academic circumstances, such a fencer may find herself a prize for an otherwise unattainable top DV1 program. In any case, the additional importance (as my friend @stencils points out), is that there is plenty of college fencing out there, at all competitive levels. Encouraging research into these programs, many of which are at very fine undergraduate schools, only serves to enhance the greater NCAA fencing community.
@stencils I think there was a mismatch between @sasmsb DD academics and her fencing. While many of the 45 NCAA women’s fencing teams would have LOVED to recruit her, she would not have wanted to be recruited by them given her academic stats. If the mismatch were reversed and she were high on the points list and lower in the academics (not dreadfully low), that would be a different story.
That said, sounds like @sasmsb DD was able to strike the right balance in a DIV3 school with strong academics. What an exciting new chapter, and thank you for sharing some of your journey in this forum. This recruitment business is like untangling a ball of yarn, eventually you get to the right place but it’s helpful to know how others navigated the esoteric topography. Thanks again @sasmsb for such a detailed and transparent account.
To add to the this discussion regarding level of fencing + academics is the serendipity of what the available pool is in any given year + need of the school(s). Looking at the points list, for example, someone in the top 50 of junior points list could easily be in the top 10 for the given weapon/gender for any given entering year. And then how many schools are looking for said weapon/gender to fill gaps… it is the combination of all these factors that means there is not a specific formula for “success.” And as so many have pointed out, there are many opportunities at a variety of schools and levels, and that’s all to the good for the students!
Thanks for the summary! This really helps.
As some have noted, there is a balance that every student fencer must strike when choosing a school and fencing program. I’m the OP and DD’s primary concern was that even if she gave up fencing (willingly or not), the school had to be an academic fit for her—a high-achieving student body that is collaborative rather than competitive, with an excellent liberal arts program, not extremely large, and not in NYC or on the West Coast. She ruled out all schools without varsity teams, but she also ruled out schools where she felt the coaches didn’t place the same value on academics as they did athletics. She was also constrained by my limitation of 9 schools, with no more than 4 reach and no fewer than 3 probable. There were certainly other schools that “fit” (such as Duke and Haverford), but she had to choose only nine, within the metric. Actually, writing this I just realized that I allowed her 10 schools and Brandeis was the other where she applied and was accepted.
@fencingmom I just realized that we didn’t answer your NCAA eligibility center question. When we answered that question, I think we included monthly club fees, but I don’t recall if we also included lesson fees or not. I wouldn’t get too hung up on it, as it’s just a hoop to jump through.
@SevenDad you and I discussed a year or so ago and you did this a year after I did. Do you recall what you did about club/lesson fees in the eligibility center?
@stencils: I sent fencingmom a PM to let her know what we did when registering my daughter with the NCAA Eligibility Center/Clearinghouse. I do think the wording is very confusing, though I didn’t feel the question about fees was as intrusive as fencingmom did.
My reading of the NCAA question in question is that it’s about them wanting to know if you’ve gotten paid (vs. you paying) to represent a club. IIRC, we listed our annual/monthly membership fees (if applicable…I know different clubs have different approaches to this)…the costs that covered group classes/use of space.
I do think it's helpful to have some clarity on this as it will be more important to register earlier on now that Div1 OVs are allowed Junior year of HS (Div3 OVs have been allowed Junior year for a few years now).
Very happy to see the thread come alive again, and see some new screen names adding to the body of info we’ve compiled over the years.
I wanted to comment on SpaceVoyager’s post #662 above: “…someone in the top 50 of junior points list could easily be in the top 10 for the given weapon/gender for any given entering year”. This was certainly true for my daughter, and I think it’s a point that we’ve made before (possibly initially by superdomestique) that bears repeating.
Remember that prospects are NOT competing for available slots with all the kids in on the Junior NRPS list. They are only competing with the kids in their HS graduation year. Some portion of the kids on the Junior NRPS list are already in college and others are in later graduating years (regardless of birth year, see below*).
Outside of national team/regular podium denizen fencers, this is VERY important to keep in mind. Because, as stated by SpaceVoyager, you could be well outside the top 32 on the NRPS and still be in the top 10 or so for your gender/weapon/HS Class.
Looking at the national team champion contenders, there have been 5-7 schools over the past 10 years that are generally in the mix. But there are a lot more college teams than that, including many (Div1/2/3) that send athletes to the NCAA Championships. So…if one assumes that the top 5-7 kids in a gender/weapon/HS Class are likely going to be snapped up by those schools, even if you are 8th, 9th, 10th down on the depth chart for your graduating class…you will probably still be an attractive prospect to some very attractive schools (both fencing-wise and academics-wise).
*FYI, I think it’s important to clarify that it’s not simply birth year (which is listed in USFA data)…it’s your graduating class year that matters. Some kids are advanced a year relative to other kids in their birth year and others are behind a year. In my daughter’s birth year, there were 2 very strong kids in her weapon who are a year back in school, but also 2 fairly strong kids who were birth year 1999 (not the more common 2000). It’s good to know where you stand in your graduating class’s depth chart in terms of targeting schools. Believe me, for a while there, I knew exactly who was in the top 20 of my daughter’s gender/weapon/HS Class and where my daughter stood in that ranking.
Been reading this thread for a few months, as my son is entering his Jr year. First time poster. Appreciate gaining a wealth of knowledge from everyone — @SevenDad , wondering how you can find out the graduation years of the fencers, as you mentioned that was important info to know?
Look forward to learning/sharing more as we begin this journey in earnest.
I will mention a nugget that is important to keep in mind which I heard many times when my older son was looking at schools for soccer. Make sure the school is the right fit and that you/your student would be happy there even without their sport. Coaches change, injuries happen, etc… and it’s important that the school can stand on its merits alone.
@RRRtex: By and large it is by birth year. So you can start there. It also helps to know which people are already in college (whether by checking college rosters, the college affiliation listed on NAC results, or just fencing parent osmosis).
The All-Academic and All-American lists — which have historically listed grade of fencer —are a good resource to help fine tune the list of fencers in your kid’s grade. For some reason, the All-Academic list for 2018 that’s available online does not include grade of student. We didn’t go to SN this year, but I bet you it’s listed in the program.
The 2018 All-American list does include grades:
https://www.usafencing.org/news_article/show/930085
And then there’s good old fashioned detective work for any remaining question marks…it could be as simple as asking a friend if they know what grade someone is. In my experience, the sport is small enough that most people within a gender/weapon category know each other or are at most 2 degrees of separation away.
To clarify why I think knowing graduation year is important…Say your kid is #40 on the Junior NRPS list. Some might look at that and think “S/he has no chance of being recruited.” But after doing a little homework, you might find that s/he is #11 on the list for his/her graduating class. Which is not a half-bad place to be. The higher the better, of course.
I totally agree with your final paragraph in post #667…the school has to be a good fit sports aside. Because stuff can and does happen.
Thanks, @SevenDad — I’ve got the programs for those lists as we attended the receptions at SN, and they both list the current grade of the fencers. Time to start marking up that NRPS list!
Correction- All Academic program does not include grades — grrrr…
@RRRtex: That’s interesting…because they have in years past.
Here’s a link to 2015-2016 list:
https://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0101/7780/2015-16_All_Academic_List_Web.pdf
And the 2016-2017 list via the official USA Fencing post last year:
https://www.usafencing.org/news_article/show/811641
I wouldn’t stress…all this means is you need to do a little more detective work at the Oct. NAC! 
Wait, I just realized you can probably use the 2016-17 info…keeping in mind that not every kid is going to apply for the program. But it definitely helped me fine tune the list when I was actively tracking it.
Jennie Salmon named new head coach at Brandeis:
http://www.brandeisjudges.com/sports/mfencing/2018-19/releases/20180720lj0567
Hello,
Would like to address this question to parents of students who have been recruited.
I’ve read on this forum about the support offered to recruited athletes by various Div1 programs and would like to know specifically what that entails. Tutors, preferred housing, advance registration, nutritionists, personal trainers – not sure if these fall under support or perks, or if this is a comprehensive list, but interpret as you will and add on if you are privy. What type of support has your child experienced as a recruited athlete that one might not discover on an official/unofficial visit?
Thank you in advance for your contributions. I am looking forward to giving back to this forum in the future!
@fencingmom: So you mean non-scholarship (money towards tuition/room & board) stuff?
Hi, Fencingmom! Following is a list off the top of my head:
Dedicated Guidance Counselor - This not only provides ready access and quick answers, it also provides someone to intervene should classes be closed out. The point here, as with other such services, is that the school officer is uniquely qualified to handle athlete situations.
Dedicated Financial Aid Liaison - Obviously not for everyone, but if you are in this boat, having someone handhold you through the process can be extremely helpful.
Nutritionist - Everything from talking you through your day to detailed, extensive meal plans, including recipes!
Physical Fitness - Personal training and routines.
Therapies - Massage, ice bath, and other treatments. These are not just for injuries. In fact, most avail themselves of these just to relax and stretch out.
Coach ‘Pull’ - Depending on the coach and his/her weight with the program, the coach can be extremely valuable interceding with professors and administration. For instance, many high level fencers miss classes, tests, and often need to reschedule. A coach may help with the occasional irate professor.
Expenses - Many programs provide the basic equipment (some more than others), and some travel expenses and per diem costs, at least to designated travel teams. However, some programs offer their top fencers allowances for international travel and associated expenses. The offerings vary from school to school, with some being relative modest, e.g., maybe 1 or 2 international designated events, to extremely generous, e.g., a large budget allocated for such competitions.
Tutoring - I don’t believe that ‘free’ tutoring is always exclusive to recruited athletes, but they certainly get this. We’re talking hours of private tutoring in any subject.
Special Events - Recruited athletes are often invited to interact with important alums, meet potential donors, and otherwise represent the college at PR events. There may also be unique travel opportunities. For instance, Absolute Fencing co-sponsors a quasi-University Games in China to which participating programs can send upwards of 6 (generally 1 per gender/weapon) fencers to China for an all-expenses paid week of fencing, travel, and cultural exchange.
There are probably more perqs not coming to mind. If there is some area in which you are particularly interested, please ask!
@BrooklynRye Super helpful, I’m going to pass this along to my daughter so she can ask about some of these points during meetings with coaches in the fall. The area I’m most interested in is daily living – anything that can help aid the balance and reduce stress; dorms proximal to gym, training services that go beyond fencing, ability to have special allowances for missing classes/tests etc. I think you covered most, but if anything springs to mind – please post!
@SevenDad I’m not thinking specifically of financial incentives. More along the line of school/life balance which will aid in quality of student-athlete life.
Now that day schedules have been posted for NACs through January, a quick question to the experienced folks here — is it pretty necessary for a junior looking to fence in college attend all of these, including the Div 1 events? Fencer has been on cusp of making NRPS for past years (at age appropriate levels, not Div 1), but has really made a strong commitment to the sport and has made big strides in outcomes. I ask because many of the days for these events will result in missed school days - ugh… in fact, of the 4 NACs, only one has only weekend events for Jr/Div 1 fencers. Puts these kids (not to mention their parents!) in a bit of a rock and a hard place…
@RRRtex I imagine you’ll get the standard, “it depends” answer. As in, it depends on what you mean by “looking to fence in college”. Is this the opportunity to fence anywhere, or do you mean getting onto the team at D1 or highly competitive D3 schools?
RRRtex, At your fencer’s level, maintaining as high a level of academics as possible is critical. Currently not on the NRPS, fencer is almost certainly not on the recruitment track for a DV1 program. All the more reason why academics are so significant, targeting elite schools that have DV2/DV3 programs. Assuming I understand correctly and that you are talking about the recruitment class of 2024, there is time for your fencer to make strides so I personally would not write-off at least the age-appropriate, i.e., Junior Division, events. Honestly, I think this is a must for your fencer if he/she has any aspirations for a DV1 program. The clock is already starting to tick for 2024 and 2018-2019 is pretty much your fencer’s recruitment year.