@SpaceVoyager - Hey, even coaches are human. Tough to literally ignore someone. Recall during my son’s recruitment period that most coaches would say “Hello” at NACs, but would never stand around and chat.
In my experience, college visits with coaches can happen as early as freshman year. Contact via email text w/e can happen after september 1st, and actual meeting with coaches at a competition venue can happen after July 1st, or when your lasts Nationals event is over.
On an unrelated note, went to a saber camp in italy and it was probably one of the best training camps i’ve been to. Many of the top junior/cadet fencers from all over the world were there, and It definitely helped me improve. Recommend any saber fencer committed to the sport to check it out at the very least.
@cashcarti With the new NCAA rules changes, things are still a bit confusing for many people. But it is my understanding that before Sept 1 of the beginning of the athlete’s junior year, unofficial visits with the coaches can no longer happen. The athlete may visit the campus on their own accord, but the coaches and his staff are not allowed to discuss recruiting. Therefore, freshmen and sophomores can no longer meet with the coaches. Seasoned parents please correct me if I am wrong.
@noanswers wow, had no idea they were still updating rules. I remember reading about someone whose daughter visited some division 1 schools and met with coaches as a freshman or sophomore (can’t remember), but I guess that’s changing. Still kind of confused why guidelines regarding meeting with coaches are so strict, especially that fencing is a pretty small scene.
@cashcarti Last year while we were waiting outside the coaches office to meet with him, he was meeting with a very highly ranked sophomore. The rule changes are across the board with all sports. They are trying to eliminate early commitments. But for fencing, generally most fencers, including the top highly ranked ones usually commit sometime in their junior year anyway and not before.
@cashcarti noanswers is correct – new NCAA rules that went into effect this summer are pretty clear. The rules prevent commitments in the freshman and sophomore years, and put the whole of that graduating class on the same timeline. I think it’s a good move – it’s hard to know what you want as a 15 or 16 year old just trying to navigate the demands of high school.
@fencingmom - and yet there are notable DV1 coaches that will exchange a commitment, in writing, with high school sophomores and immediately rising juniors. always felt that applying ncaa recruitment rules to fencing was a bit like killing an ant with a bazooka. just doesn’t seem to be applicable as it is in big money sports. for anyone who has been at cadet and junior worlds, you get an eye-opening view of all-bets-are-off recruiting…
Now that we’re into the school year, I thought I’d bump the thread in case any HS juniors/seniors have questions before they take official visits — or have questions after taking an OV.
Thought this would be of interest in this thread. Delaware Valley University (Doylestown, PA) will be adding a fencing team that will begin competing in the 2019-2020 season. Nothing wrong with there being one more option for future fencers to have available to them. Delaware Valley is a DIII school. The article refers to it being a co-ed fencing team, but I imagine it is a men’s team and a women’s team that share a coach and practice together/against each other.
Here’s the article: https://athletics.delval.edu/news/2018/9/5/general-delval-to-add-womens-wrestling-and-co-ed-fencing-as-intercollegiate-sports.aspx
@saharafrog - One of the highlights at last season’s NCAA Championhips was the inclusion of 2 fencers from the University of the Incarnate Word, a Catholic University in San Antonio recently accredited as a DV1 fencing program. In fact, in just its first season, UIW had it’s first All-American result! In addition to UIW, there were 3 DV3 programs + 1 DV2 program with representation at Penn State last year. One of the DV2 fencers even took a silver individual medal! I think the addition of new college fencing programs is great for the sport, great for prospective college fencers, and wonderful for the occasional magic it brings to NCAA fencing.
Always good to see a new NCAA team. Will be interesting to see who Delaware Valley hires to coach the team…plenty of area clubs to choose from, not to mention the Philadelphia area clubs.
So I met with a division 3 coach who wanted me to fence for them, and gave me rough percentages on my chances of getting in depending on the application type. I know that my application will be flagged as an athlete, but other than that, do D3 coaches have recruiting power with admissions that will give me an advantage? Ignoring my fencing stats, the school is a match, but given what the coach told me it felt more like a safety school. Can the coach influence admissions though? I’m hoping to have this school as a safety net, but I’m worried that there’s still a decent chance I might get rejected. I’d really hate to not be able to get recruited. (FYI I am a B rated fencer, and I’m low on the Junior list.)
Depending on the school some coaches will have more pull than others. The coach will be able to give you an honest guestimate of your chances, since he/she will know of the influence they have on the adcom. But in the end as with all schools, it is the adcom who will have the final say, based on all the material submitted in your application. With all things be equal between you and another non athlete, the coach’s pull will have a significant impact.
@cashcarti If you’re worried, you can always add in a second safety net. Check out the less selective DIII schools and you’ll find some where your academics should get you in, without needing any pull from a coach, and where your B rating should put you at or near the top of the team. If you find one with non-binding early action and no application fee (there’s at least one out there), you can have a safety school acceptance in hand by mid-December and only be out the time it took you to submit the app. If/when your first school turns into a yes, you can then decline the second school (unless you fell in love with it in the meantime…).
@cashcarti I am familiar with an athlete who was recruited to a Div3 program at a prestigious university recently. I believe the athlete was an academic match for the school and a competent fencer (similar to your stats), but the coach definitely had recruitment power; ran the athlete’s stats through admissions at the school and then once green lighted, he instructed the athlete to apply EA. He didn’t just flag the application as you are indicating.
I would advise reaching out to the coach and asking a straight up question – “what does your recruitment process look like, are you interested in recruiting me” etc… Coaches, like athletes, appreciate transparency and good communication. No sense in guessing – just put it out there, with diplomacy of course 
Thanks so much for the responses. One more question: I would really like to drop an AP course of mine as I only took it due to a scheduling conflict and wanted to look good for schools, which I now recruit. The problem is that I’ve submitted my senior year courses to some college coaches who have went through with the pre read process, so I’m scared it will look worse if I drop. Thoughts?
@cashcarti: I think if you can explain the change as not necessarily being about “taking an easier route”, you should be fine. You may also want to be pro-active in disclosing this, so send a note that says something like “Hey, just wanted to let you know that I finalized my senior year schedule and I’m only taking X AP courses due to scheduling, etc…I trust that this will not be an issue.” My daughter had a similar situation and did as I outlined above (pro-active email), and it was not an issue.
I was scanning the rosters of a few schools yesterday to see if they had updated the lists to include new freshman. Some had, some had not.
One thing that I was struck by was the great variability in squad size. To pick somewhat extreme examples, Penn has 11 women’s epeeists on their roster whereas Princeton only has 4 currently listed. Obviously, this means that a women’s epeeist on the Princeton squad has a much greater chance of making the travel squad/seeing NCAA playing time than a WE at Penn. (Yes, I know that a lot depends on the individual, but just consider an average “good enough to fence in college” fencer.)
So this raises a question…let’s say a recruit wants to study business, which would make Penn (with its highly ranked Wharton School) arguably more desirable from an academic perspective — do you pick the school where you are probably going to get more playing time or do you go with what’s a better academic fit?
And for that matter, how should roster size play into decision-making, if at all?
If one is lucky enough to have a choice of which school he/she will attend, but most athletes will not have that choice, since recruiting for many is a game of musical chairs. The fortunate few who do have a choice of any school they want to attend will not leave much choice for those who still need to rush to choose a vacant chair.
You post a challenging response, Down. Nice use of the musical chairs metaphor, btw…
Yes, there will always be fencers who are fortunate enough to have locked choices. However, I do not believe that most athletes are left without choices. I think it comes down to a combination of proactivity, persistence, and realistic expectations. There are a multitude of factors and resulting permutations that can afford opportunities for a fencer outside of the top recruiting group. To name a few: (i) a weak or sparse field in a particular season for the fencer’s weapon/gender; (ii) a need by a school to recruit a larger than usual number in the fencer’s weapon/gender; (iii) grades and scores and how those may relate to a school’s need to improve its average AI, and, not least, (iv) the unexpected. The last can be as simple and as normal an occurrence as a change of plans by a top recruit that leaves an unanticipated vacancy, or an injury to or withdrawal by a fencer already counted on the team.
This all goes to the combination I propose above. If you are tracking the needs of each schools, realistically evaluating your chances (both as a fencer and as an academic candidate), and are ready to act should the dominoes fall in an unexpected manner, then I think that most fencers can find an acceptable slot. Most importantly in this calculus, is prioritizing goals; which I believe is Seven’s focus in his most recent post. Is the priority the level and academic offerings of the school or is it fencing? If the latter, is it to fence at the best program possible, without regard to individual fencing time, or is it to fence for a team where one gets the best opportunities to compete? Anyone, and I mean pretty much anyone, can fence in college. The lowest ranked, least competitive fencer can fence for a club or intramural program in the SUNY system, for instance, or at colleges and universities throughout the country. There are even DV3 programs at elite colleges such as MIT, Haverford, and Johns Hopkins, that field significantly less competitive fencers [see (iii) above].
There are always chairs in the game, Down, it’s more a question of how one views the field. 