The Only College Fencing Recruiting Thread You Need to Read

Athletic Recruits
801

I’ll second @BrooklynRye comments above. My D, now a sophomore fencer in a top 10 D1 program, has significantly more time commitment and level of expectation than in HS. In HS, she’d sometimes miss practice to study for mid-terms, finals, SATs/ACTs, or a big test. That’s just not allowed in competitive D1 programs. You have to show up; it’s expected. Even if you’re sick, only the trainer can declare you “too sick to practice.”

For my D, it’s 3 hours of practice a day, plus separate lesson time with the weapon coach, plus mandatory weightlifting 3x weekly. During season, there’s an event every other weekend, and most are away. There’s also the occasional mandatory athletic meeting or event. It’s just way more time than HS!

Don’t get me wrong, she loves her coach, her team, and NCAA fencing in general… and manages it all even with an engineering courseload, but it’s hard. She now falls into the first category BrooklynRye mentioned above: Gung-ho NCAA fencing, with little or no interest in pursuing fencing outside of college.

But, sometimes sleep loses out… and she’s addicted to coffee now :slight_smile:

802

Related to the above posts #799 and #800 (that’s a lot of posts!), I’m curious about what the experience has been for regarding the various schools/coaches perspectives on athletes who do want to spend time away from school at national/international competitions? I wanted to throw this out there on this forum because this is a question we are getting from the new recruiting year families, and we don’t know enough about what the broader answer is – also if there are recent experiences/insights that might be valuable for prospective recruits.

(as an aside, I know anecdotally that there are lots of people now looking at schools for fencing and we always recommend this site when we are asked for advice, but I don’t see all the questions I know people are asking posted here. Maybe they are finding the answers already among the 800 posts!).

803

I will try to be as succinct as possible in responding. Please feel free to add follow-up questions.

If you have an effective system in place in high school that facilitated the balance between school and fencing, this is generally transferable, recognizing that a college curriculum will pose unique challenges.

To this end, I suggest sending an email from the student to each professor (each semester), introducing him/herself and explaining a bit about the challenges and upcoming travel and missed classes due to fencing. Suggest getting work ahead of time to stay ahead. Also offer advance notice on absences to facilitate alternative testing dates when necessary.

If possible, try to keep the college coach engaged in this. He/she may prove to be helpful should there be glitches down the line, e.g., rescheduling midterms or finals. This relationship will also be a factor when it comes to conflicts between team practices and your regular training schedule with your personal coach. This will also be critical when it comes to conflicts between international competitions and NCAA competitions. If you are a recruited fencer at an Ivy, for instance, you will have to go a long way to convince your coach that you need to miss the Ivy League Championships to fence in a World Cup in Bratislava. Re national events, NACs are usually scheduled so as to not conflict with international designated events. It happens, but not often.

You will also want to keep your outside personal coach, if applicable, in the loop. The days of building a training schedule first, and adjusting a high school schedule after the fact, are over. There will have to be some patience and some mature give and take when it comes to acclimating to a rigorous college course load. While your at it, you might also want to address NCAA competitions and team practices. Most personal coaches are not all that gung-ho about NCAA obligations, particularly when they interfere with the personal training and competition schedule. Determine your personal commitment to NCAA fencing and hold firm.

Avail yourself of tutors! Don’t wait until a subject proves a bit more challenging than expected or you fall behind. On this line, also try to establish consistent study buddies and/or study groups. These may well be your go-tos when it comes to getting class notes and keeping up with announcements made in class during one of your absences.

When it comes to travel, particularly international trips, squeeze time. These are kids. They are very adaptable. For an international competition, say occurring on a Saturday, leave Thursday, arrive Friday, compete, and come home Sunday. To the extent to which you might have taken an extra day or so on either end to take the edge of the travel or to spend some time in a particular country, don’t. For domestic travel, although it can be difficult, try to fly out the night of the competition, particularly if your event falls on a Sunday or Monday. Missed college classes are difficult to make up and every day you save will pay you back tenfold.

If you are trying to do multiple age divisions, e.g., Junior and Senior World Cups, the challenges will be magnified. This is one of the most difficult rows to hoe. May the force be with you on this one!

What can I say? First World problems?

Good luck!!!

804

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805

Regarding USA Fencing events, I think some college programs fund some/all travel to some NACs. I know of at least 2 schools that bring their entire team to the Jan NAC (generally held before second semester starts at most schools and featuring both Div1 and Junior events).

My daughter (a frosh at a D1 non-Ivy school) went to the Oct NAC, and was one of only a handful of kids from her team who did so. OTOH, Northwestern, which is just a 1-hour drive from Milwaukee, seemed to roll with their whole team at the NAC.

I think Brooklyn Rye’s point about squeezing time with regard to travel is spot on. If you have a Friday afternoon event that in HS you’d usually fly in Thursday night for…college students might opt to fly out Friday AM to minimize missed class time. My daughter also brought a bunch of work with her and prioritized doing it. She did miss one class, which she had given the prof a heads up about and was expected to do the work due as if she were on campus.

Circling back to an earlier point…it’s because of this sort of stuff that I think the “They were juggling all of this in HS, so why should college be any harder?” argument falls short. If you are a truly elite fencer, pursuing a world team berth at the Junior or Senior level, I can’t imagine the sacrifices that have to get made. Because the most rigorous schools are hard enough for your average NARP-y (Non-Athletic Regular Person) smart kid.

806

@SevenDad I will cede a bit on the workload argument, but not capitulate entirely. I think BrooklynRye makes common sense points and offers excellent advice surrounding this. It’s fantastic to have generalizations as guidelines, and every data point is valuable in this regard, but it’s paramount to factor the individual into the equation. How much can each person do, miss, train, catch up, and balance is unique. We all know those students who don’t need to study quite as much, or the athletes who have to train twice as hard.

Prospective students shadowing at my daughter’s school always ask how long evening homework takes and/or how late students stay up doing homework. It would be better to know how much homework is assigned and calculate projections based on your own history with such tasks, while making a note of ancillary data. If ninety percent of students at the school are staying up until 2am, well that says something. Unfortunately, I’m not sure the data set for competitive fencers within the three categories BrooklynRye lays out in post #799 is large enough from which to mine anything conclusive. When one sets a gauge to another’s marker or makes decisions using blanket statements as a primary guide, one moves away from the epicenter of the calculus.

807

Well, just going from my experience, I would say fencers in at least the top 5, perhaps 7 of their graduating class would have a choice to make between schools at the beginning of the process. This narrows as the end of junior year winds down, and fencers start committing.

808

@starwars 1 post # 793…Agreed

809

We are indeed the macro and the micro, fencingmom, my friend! Yes, of course, past results are no guarantee of future performance, and individual results may vary. Absolutely!

Re the academics, however, while I believe that top recruits have genuinely been performing at a very high level coordinating high school with fencing, this is simply not the same thing once in college. Yes, there are high schools that are extremely rigorous, perhaps rivaling the workload and intensity of college. I have heard this quite often from fellow parents with kids at elite private and public schools. However, perhaps best speaking from experience, coming from a typical, mid-level public high school, my child was able to skate a lot of the way home between international fencing tournaments and a rigorous training schedule. Not so much at an Ivy League institution…not so much at all!

810

@ShanFerg3 Playing the musical chairs game, the top fencers, as you said the top 5 to 7 in their graduating class of their weapon and gender, would have the choice of the school they can choose from, assuming they are also academically viable. One problem for the first guy to sit on the “chair” is that he/she is asked to commit asap by the coach. Since the academic preread will not be officially done until the summer in most cases, it’s a chance these student athletes will have to take they may not pass the preread, especially if their academic stats are good but not stellar. I just heard of a top fencer, despite receiving a positive preread, didn’t receive her Likely Letter this month from the adcom.

811

It’s a fencer’s job to be knowledgeable and the coach’s job to be transparent about “good but not stellar” stats. If a fencer is on the bubble, then it’s their decision of whether or not to take the risk of turning down other, more likely but less desirable, offers for the chance of something better. Isn’t this really a bird in the hand and two in the bush scenario? I find there’s always more to the story than the sound bites — preread good then no LL — that’s a sensationalized headline but some details are invariably missing. Important details.

812

Very often perspective of top recruits is a bit skewed. There is a prioritizing of top fencing programs, often at elite academic institutions, without regard to academic fit. Just because you are the top junior fencer in your recruiting class does not mean you automatically get into CHYP (or “CHYMPS”?). Making realistic projections can be critical. As FM points out, you may pass on the proverbial bird in the hand only to find all birds in the bush have flown…

813

@starwars1 Just based on my daughter’s experience, you are absolutely correct.

814

@fencingmom Perhaps I misunderstood…but I read it as didn’t receive LL as of yet, as oppose to not going to receive it at all. In this case that would be surprising to me unless they had a very poor start to senior year academically…perhaps ??‍♂️

815

@ShanFerg3 Yes, perhaps they’ve not receive it YET. @starwars1 keep us posted!

816

@FencingDad I’m admittedly a bit biased lol. But, I think the critique on Yale’s fencing program should be revisited. They finished 9th last fencing season and stepped up their recruiting in the last 2 recruiting classes.

817

@ShanFerg3 - Is there an actual written critique of the Yale fencing program or are you referring to the general sense/talk among the fencing community? To me, Yale often seems to take forward steps followed by backwards steps in terms of recruiting. The school brought in some great foil coaching over the past couple of years, but I understand this is now gone. Some very top recruits in some weapons/genders. Not so strong in others. I think Yale will continue to be a potential spoiler at Ivies. I don’t think the program is even close to seriously competing at NCAA Championships. That said, I do think the school may see a bump in fencers selected to compete in Cleveland this spring…

818

I think I’m a bit biased…but I know they brought in a pretty good freshman class. And, this was what was shared with me by a few coaches as my daughter was being recruited this past season. I know the class of 2023 has some pretty good fencers…and the woman finishing 9th in NCAA last season is a step in the right direction.

819

Bias is fine. Pretty normal. Facts are good too. Yale went way deep on male recruits for 2022. It looks as if they recruited upwards of 10 Men. Women, I’m only seeing 3. More importantly, to my knowledge there are only a couple of top fencers in the whole group. You never know who takes to NCAA fencing in a surprising way, performing way above their prior national results. But within the range of predictability, I think Yale picked up a great MF and a very decent ME. I think they also picked up a nice WE. Can’t say I recognize most of the other names (my bias?). NCAA Championships are a wonderful arena. Not everyone comes in with a shot at a championship, but everyone comes in with a chance to show skill, character, and grit. Yale probably won’t send enough to make a serious run at a top finish, but I think they have a shot at increasing their reps over last year and therefore a chance at a higher team finish. I hope Yale recruits a great 2023 class. Makes it more competitive and interesting for all!

820

Yes, I think your sentiments align with mine. You are also pretty accurate about the recruits. I think finishing 9th was a pretty good space. Especially finishing higher than St. John’s. I wasn’t predicting being on Columbia or ND’s level. But, they were right there with NW, U Penn, etc…with the potential to improve over the next couple of years.