We’ve joked with D that fencing is her on-campus job, and she gets paid in clothing. I rarely see her NOT in school-provided clothing. It’s almost obscene the amount of “free” (included) stuff they are given.
At my son’s DV1 there are 2 practices per week for each weapon. Both men’s and women’s squads of a particular weapon practice together during their twice per week session. Private lessons are pretty much in the individual fencer’s prerogative. The coaches are generally accessible and flexible. Some fencers take several lessons per week. Others take none. Some are intermittent. Still others take lessons with outside personal coaches. So it is a very mixed bag. To my knowledge there is no team-mandated weight training. Occasionally the coach will bring in a strength-training coach to work with the team, but generally the coach leaves it to the fencers to organize their own strength and conditioning and other non-bouting training. I know that there are some schools, including some very competitive programs, that are much more rigorous in scheduling lessons, and strictly mandated practices as well as strength & conditioning sessions.
D practices every day, lifts a few times a week, and has one private lesson.
My opinion on the championship team vs the less competitive team. Hopefully if you are lucky, you end up at a great school with opportunities to fence. Thatʻs the dream! If you really love the sport, why wouldnʻt you find a school thatʻs a great academic and athletic fit? Even in college kids are still developing, and plenty of opportunities exist for competition after college. I think it would be smart to find a school that meets your academic criteria with a program and coach thatʻs committed to developing their athletes. I want my kids in a place where they can learn, make great friends, have a healthy well rounded life, develop in their sport, stay injury free (as much as possible), and make a positive and meaningful contribution to their team.
@cleoforshort So, which scenario do you feel would work for your daughter? Do you believe she could be fulfilled being on a championship team but not fencing as much as she would like?
@ShanFerg3 My daughter is a Sophomore in college and part of a D1 fencing program. In the last two weeks she was challenged by another fencer on her squad so she is no longer a starter. She only fenced in high school and didnʻt start until Sophomore year, but was number 3 in our state her senior year and a tri-varsity athlete. She was not a recruitable athlete because she had no rating or ranking. When she was choosing among the schools she was accepted to she looked at academics and the fencing program and ultimately choose the school that hit all of her criteria which included an enthusiastic coach who told her “you will fence.” She showed up to college Freshman year on crutches after hip surgery and did not fence until January but ended up at NCAA regionals. She loves fencing so it makes sense that sheʻs at a school where she can do it and participate in the teamʻs outcomes. I expect she will successfully revisit the challenge and return to her starting position but sheʻs in the middle of midterms and summer REU applications, so itʻs on the back burner for now.
D is highly competitive academically and athletically so she would not be happy on a high profile team as basically a member of the practice squad. She loves to get out there and play, and was very successful in her other sports as well - she had an offer from USNA in another sport but ultimately decided to fence. She is a double major, in two honors programs, top 10% of her class, an honor roll kid, a researcher and a member of 4 or 5 clubs. She leads a big life and is so happy that fencing is a part of it.
@cleoforshort your daughter sounds absolutely amazing. Thank you for sharing. I can absolutely see how someone with her competitive spirit would feel that way.
@ShanFerg3 Thank you! She is amazing!
@cleoforshort - Very impressive and a testimony as to why good balance between academics and fencing, as well as honest introspection in making a college choice, are so critical. To put an even finer point on it, there were approximately 100 recruits at top programs in all NCAA divisions in my son’s recruitment year. Of those, as of the 2018-2019 season, nearly 25% are no longer on their team’s roster and actively fencing. For those we know included in that 25%, most simply moved on with their lives. School, other extracurricular interests, social life, relationships, careers, and so many other things just took priority. Many of these fencers were top national competitors. Many had success during the time they competed at the NCAA level. What they all had in common is that fencing ran its course and they moved on. Best to be able to do this in an academic and social environment in which you will be happy sans fencing.
@BrooklynRye I couldnʻt agree more! Many of these kids find other interests, burn out, or realize that NCAA sports can be a grind and choose not to participate. These kids can also fence on their own terms outside of college so the required practices, volunteerism, and team bonding might not be their cup of tea - especially if they are not fencing in competition - they figure whatʻs the point? I wonder if fencing has more attrition than other sports? Seeing that itʻs an individual sport for most kids until they get to college, where sacrificing for the good of a team is a foreign idea .My D learned the harsh realization of these kids being individuals in a team environment a couple of weeks ago, it was very eye opening and a bit shocking to her as she has always played sports as a member of a team.
Weighing in on the practice time comments. My D fences at a small Div 3 school, and her weekly schedule consists of:
Weights 2x per week
Individual lesson 1x per week
Practice 4x per week (unless there was a meet the weekend before, or if they are traveling on Friday)
Club practice 1x per week - this is not officially part of their schedule, and no coach is present. A bunch of the kids (including my D) on the fencing team help run/coach the campus’s fencing club (at the end of last year, they “promoted” a fencer from the club to the team).
One interesting thing where this small D3 school differs from most D1s - the coach has to schedule fencing practice/weight lifting around the team’s collective schedule, rather than the other way around.
I’ll second (or third) that varsity fencing has a large time commitment, but to me this can be a good thing. It forces the student-athletes to look ahead a week or two and schedule out their time. As @stencils noted, long bus rides are great for writing labs. Also, any teammate in any of the same classes as you immediately become your study buddy.
As to the philosophical question about whether it is more fun to be a bench player for a championship team vs a full-time starter for an unranked team vs part-time starter for a ranked team. The answer, as usual, is “it depends on the person”. Were I a college fencer, I’d probably want to be in the stencils “goldilocks” zone - a contributor on a ranked team. My D, however, would much rather be exhausted on Sunday evening, having fenced 30+ bouts of a two day mega-meet, than to have not faced each and every school on her team’s schedule.
FYI, CollegeFencing360.com just updated its site (well, a little). But it now provides a nice consolidated place to refer to 2018-19 season results (mostly correct) for most (if not all) the college fencing teams — plus a consolidated schedule of events. There’s also some color commentary on the two Coaches Polls from this season.
@SevenDad CollegeFencing360.com is not an intuitive site! It’s like outlet shopping – you really have to dig around. In any case, are there pool or round robin archives for any of these events, or just a tally of a win or loss. I’d like to see what athletes are fencing.
@fencingmom: That’s a funny and apt characterization! In terms of finding bout sheets, in my experience that’s very much hit or miss. And can depend on the school. For example, Penn seems to include PDFs regularly…but many schools do not:
From Northwestern Duals (see links to PDFs on this page):
https://pennathletics.com/news/2019/2/3/womens-fencing-goes-4-2-at-northwestern-duals.aspx
If you’re interested in the Ivies, Princeton posted the bout sheets:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/princeton.sidearmsports.com/documents/2019/2/10/Ivy2019Combined.pdf
Also, some schools give a break down per weapon, including personnel in a given match, but that is hit or miss.
Thanks @SevenDad – those links are helpful. It’s interesting to see who the teams are putting in.
I’m not sure I can go back to CollegeFencing360. It’s a bit of a rabbit hole.
Bout sheet posting is completely hit or miss and not just between schools, the same school will post them sometimes and not others. In the week after a meet, I’ll often hit the websites of all schools at that meet just in case someone posted them. UCSD posted their bout sheets from the Northwestern duals, but they don’t seem to have posted for other meets (luckily it was the NU duals I was interested in): http://www.ucsdtritons.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=93257&SPID=11061&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211788935&DB_OEM_ID=5800 (pdf links at the top of the article)
It would be wonderful if there was a central clearinghouse for meet results, but NCAA fencing is not quite as big as football or basketball…
@saharafrog perhaps the lack of bout sheets speaks to the fact that college fencing is really a team sport – the cumulative effort/tally of many fencers. The shift from the individual to the collective is always interesting.
@fencingmom Change “college fencing is really a team sport” to “college fencing is MOSTLY a team sport” and I’ll be on board with you. Conference meets have both team and individual champions, you qualify for NCAA regionals as an individual (there are team restrictions), and at the NCAA championships you are competing as both an individual and as a member of a team - and can be a champion in one and not the other.
In light of that, I re-assert it would be nice if there were a central location to see individual results. I also want to see the team results, but those are already much easier to find - and CollegeFencing360 has brought many (though not all) of those results together.
To @fencingmom 's point, in our experience, there is very little focus on the individual fencer. Of course there are standouts and attention given to the ‘aces’ on the team. And, yes, there are individual titles at NCAAs, Ivies, and at other tournaments. Oh, and there are always fencers (and usually parents) who are more concerned with individual performance than they should be. But on the whole, NCAA is marked by Team with a capital “T”. I don’t know any fencer who would not immediately give up his or her individual title at any event for a team championship. Nice to see the individual stats, particularly of one’s own kid, and it can have some NCAA-stats resonance, but on the whole not particularly important.
Hey, no argument from me that NCAA fencing should be team first, then individual. I am fully on board with that.
Perhaps I should have stated that I wish there was a central repository for BOTH team and individual results. Until/unless NCAA regional qualification changes, I think being able to see individual stats would be helpful.
Plus I am a data person by occupation, so I naturally want to see the numbers behind the numbers. Heck, I wish the bout sheets would include in what order the individual points were scored for each bout.
Totally hear you @saharafrog. Personally, loved reviewing the data from Ivies and NCAAs. Fun to see the individual match-ups and results.