The Only College Fencing Recruiting Thread You Need to Read

Athletic Recruits
981

For those of you currently participating in NCAA competitions, those of you expecting to compete in 2019-2020 and beyond, and those just interested in the competition, the upcoming weekend marks Regionals in the Mid-Atlantic/South, Midwest, Northeast, and West Regions of NCAA Fencing.

The Mid-Atlantic/South region features top fencers from Princeton, Penn, Duke, Penn State, UNC, and an array of competitive DV3 programs. The Midwest features reigning champs Notre Dame, together with OSU, Northwestern, and Cleveland State. In perhaps the most hotly competed regional tournament, the Northeast hosts Columbia, Brown, NYU, Yale, Sacred Heart, Brandeis, Harvard, St. John’s, and a host of competitive DV3 programs. In the Golden West, Stanford leads a pack including UCSD, USAFA, and Cal Tech.

The tournament format is similar to NCAA Championships, but is completed in one day(!) and does not include an individual final 4. Depending on the size and number of fencers, there is often a preliminary fence-off pool from which the top seeds are exempt. The main competition then consists of a series of pools, with eliminations after each pools, coming down to a final pool. Fencers are competing to qualify for an NCAA Championships berth in each weapon/gender. Results from Regionals count for 60% of the total formula, together with regular season statistics, toward an NCAA berth.

Good luck to all competing fencers!

982

Thank you @BrooklynRye. I wish there was at least a Facebook live feed or some broadcast of it.

983

@BrooklynRye We’re heading to Notre Dame to watch the Midwest regionals. It looks like for the last 4 years, the Midwest region has gone with one big pool as their format. And with three of the top ten women’s teams (#1, #2, and #8) among the seven schools in that region, I’m looking forward to a long but exciting day of spectating. This will be the first big college meet my wife and I will have gone to, so I’m also expecting to be a bit overwhelmed.

984

@saharafrog - Yes. The West and Midwest regionals tend to start/come down to a single pool. The South/Mid-Atlantic and Northeast have much larger fields and tend to start with an elimination round of lower-seeded fencers, into 3 or so round of pools with cuts at each level. Last year, for instance, the Northeast had an average of 40+ competitors in each gender/weapon. Good luck in South Bend!

985

@BrooklynRye - 'just looking at the regionals format, past results as well as initial seedings that are up on fencingtime. It looks like they try to separate club mates like at NACs. Is this correct?

986

They try early on to do this, size of the field permitting, but eventually, teammates end up in the later pools together.

987

I was relieved to see no fencing coaches named in Operation Varsity Blues. I’m hopeful the headlines will discourage all NCAA coaches from selling slots in the future. I think the USA Fencing easily verifiable ranking and rating system would make it difficult to pass off a non-fencers as a recruit.

988

Watched my first full NCAA Regional event last weekend. I’d dropped in on a few before, when people we knew were competing. But this time I stayed for the whole thing to cheer on my kid and her teammates.

A few thoughts:

  • It’s a long day. Pools start at 9 or 10 AM and only get done around 5 or 6 PM. I’m talking about the larger regions here, the Northeast and the Mid-Atlantic/South — which both feature four rounds of pools.
  • It’s a tough day. The final pool of 12 in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic/South has been referred to by some as the “Death Pool”. But look at the results from the 2019 Northeast and Mid-Atlantic/South Regional Qualifiers and you’ll see plenty of strong fencers who didn’t even make that final pool. The various rounds of pools can be difficult, and mentally/physically grueling.
  • It is an important day. (But not as important as you might think, based on some outcomes this year). BrooklynRye once mentioned to me that that the regular season results don't matter much — that it was the league championships, Regionals, and NCAA Championships that really mattered. And now I get what he’s saying. Because if you’re the #1 seed going into regionals but fail to make the final 12 or 18, you are probably not going to the NCAA Championship. Not to say that you didn’t have a great season…but most likely you’re not going to represent your school at the big dance/help them win a championship.

However, in a few cases this year, someone finishing outside the Top 8 (or even Top 12) in a region was able to qualify based on the strength of their overall season. So keep in mind that while your placement at Regionals is important, it’s only 60% of the equation. The other 40% is based on your season-results, a combination of strength of schedule and record vs. top fencers.

Another interesting thing about Regionals is that you’ll probably fence people you haven’t faced in NCAA competition before that day. And that always makes things interesting. A solid D3-school fencer can beat a D1-school fencer on any given day. And even then…even a not-so-solid D1 or D3 fencer can beat a top seed if their styles don’t happen to sync well…or if one of the fencers is just on (or off) for that bout.

989

With the 2019 NCAA Championship nearly upon us, I wanted to bring up the topic of “matching target schools/programs with a fencer’s competitive goals”.

This topic has come up before, but the NCAA Championship field of competitors underscores the issue for me. For fencers who have their eyes on making nationals, there are pros and cons of targeting strong schools with deep rosters.

Remember that only 2 people per weapon per gender can represent a school at nationals. When you look at the rosters for some of the strongest programs like ND and CU…the “third” fencer on the depth chart (in this case, I mean the strongest fencer NOT going to nationals) is probably a great fencer who could add to their team win total and maybe even contend for an individual medal or All-American honors — but they won’t get a chance. They might have to wait until more stronger or more senior fencers graduate to have their shot. And even then, they might not have the best Regional showing or have to compete against strong incoming recruits for those two slots.

I don’t think there is any one “right” answer to this calculus. It’s really an individual decision.

990

Looking at the women Epeeist who qualified for their respective teams, it’s exciting to see fencers my daughter competed against over the years. It’s surreal to see them representing their Universities. Looking forward to having my daughter join them next year and compete for her school. I feel it will be a blast for her to compete with a team.

991

How do wild cards work for NCAA championships?

992

@slimeszn -

There is no such thing as a “wild card” in NCAA fencing. People use the term to describe the 2 additional NCAA Championships berths allotted to each gender/weapon in each Region. The technical term is “Fencer-at-Large”. Each Region takes the next 2 fencers in a given gender/weapon who are not otherwise qualified, but who have the best regular season Power Ranking.

Keep in mind that Regionals counts for only 60% of the formula to determine an NCAA Championship berth. The remaining 40% is from regular season competition results. There were several instances this year where fencers who finished highest at Regionals were not sent to Cleveland because other members on the team had a higher combined score factoring in the regular season.

Hope this clarifies… :o)

993

A heads-up to all prospective recruits. Yale announced that they have fired head coach, Henry Harutunian, after 49 years at Yale. The firing appears to be somewhat abrupt and there is some posted controversy about the manner in which Coach Harutunian was dismissed. However, the end result is that, after nearly 5 decades, there will be a new head fencing coach. Yale is a phenomenal school and it’s fencing team boast a lot of truly stellar fencers. I personally hope the new coach re-energizes this program, making it competitive and a great option for prospective fencing recruits. Good luck, Eli!

994

In case anyone is interested in the Yale Daily News’ take on things:
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2019/04/01/yale-fires-fencing-coach-after-49-years/

(Ignore that it was posted on April 1…this is a true story.)

995

Interesting that Harutunian’s contract wasn’t renewed after he won Ivy coach of the year, his team finished 3rd in the Ivy Championships, 7th in the NCAA Championships, and he has a good class coming in this year. Well, he had a 49 year run and left the program in great shape on his way out. Hopefully, Yale picks the perfect person to build on the success of this season.

996

Did you see this story? Harvard fencing coach is being investigated:

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2019/4/5/harvard-investigates-fencing-coach/

997

How discouraging to everyone trying to do things the right way…

998

Ugh. This is not good.

999

…an interview with the News, Harutunian expressed his confusion over the Athletics Department’s decision, saying that Chun did not tell him why the department had decided against renewing his contract. Harutunian added that he has since spent hours on the phone with frustrated alumni, unable to tell them why he has been forced into early retirement.
Harutunian, who is 87 years old, added that in his first ever conversation …

Does anyone else find this funny?

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1000

Popping in here for the first time in a few years. My son is the same year and same weapon as the younger brother from this situation so he fenced him a few times over the years. Although he was a decent fencer, my opinion is that his ability alone was not enough for Harvard to be interested in him. He was on the Junior points list, but far from the levels that would justify being recruited by Harvard.