Funny in which way? I think it’s odd that it happened so abruptly, and on the heels of his most successful season in some time. One would think it would’ve happened much earlier. I find the timing curious. It also seems that he has the support of fencing Alumni. This says a lot about the impact they believe he’s had.
Let’s not try anyone in the court of public opinion or participate in call-out culture. Binary comments assuming someone was recruited who didn’t deserve to be, or that what transpired wasn’t the “right way” whip up a potentially false narrative. The Globe did a good job of reporting. Talk about what you know to be true.
Ok, what we know to be true is that Mr. Zhao paid nearly double for the house of the coach who then put his son on his fencing team. We also know that Mr. Zhao never lived in the house (because he lives in the DC suburbs), then sold it for a loss. We can see his son’s ranking in high school, and can compare that with others on the team. I am glad this is being investigated to be sure the narrative is correct. Surely no one can disagree that it looks suspicious?
I believe most of the people on this thread are adults. I donʻt think anyone should be offering direction on what is to be said or speculated about. Anyone who has been through the recruitment or college application process is not naïve about some questionable admits.
Also College Confidential is pretty much the king of the “call out culture.”
So, let’s look at some facts (as I referred to as above). There are currently five saber fencers on the Harvard roster. There were six a few days ago, but Zhao has been removed. Let’s compare them at the end of their junior year in high school when many conversations with coaches take place.
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Eli Dershwitz (senior) - Currently #1 in the world. I’m not bothering to look him up, but I’m sure that he was in the top few of the Juniors list at the end of his junior year of HS. He and Andy Mackiewicz were clearly the top two saber recruits that year.
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Erwin Cai (junior) - Was on several Cadet and Junior international teams.Was “only” #24 on the junior list in April 2015, but he had been much higher earlier.
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Phillipe Guy (junior) - Was “only” #26 on the junior list in April 2015.
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Danny Solomon (freshman) - Was #7 on the Juniors list in April, 2017 at the end of his junior year of HS. If memory serves correctly, he made the Cadet and Junior teams at least once each and maybe more.
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Jason Oh (freshman) - Was #4 on the Juniors list in April, 2017 at the end of his junior year of HS. I don’t recall if he made either the Cadet and/or Junior team at some point.
Edward Zhao (a sophomore) wasn’t even on the list in April 2016 but did get on it later and may have been on it earlier.
@cleoforshort It was a solicitation, not a mandate — I understand, nuance is sometimes lost in these contexts. The fact that CC is a call out culture does not presuppose one’s behavior. We can always strive to do better, be better.
@Lvillegrad We don’t know if Zhao was a recruit or a walk-on. That’s an important piece of information.
@RRRtex Agree, it’s worth looking into.
Let’s play nice everyone.
Yes it is
Here is some information about Zhao from the cached Harvard fencing roster website:
Before Harvard:
Fencer at the Virginia Academy of Fencing … In 2014-15, fenced at five different cadet world cups … Made the top 32 in the North American Cup in 2015 and 2016 … National Merit Commended Scholar … Member of the St. Albans Cum Laude Society … Brother, Eric Zhao ’18 fences at Harvard.
Compare that to the descriptions of the other five:
Eli Dershwitz:
Before Harvard:
2014 Division-I National Champion … Helped the U.S. to a bronze medal at the Junior World Championship in 2014 … Placed 74th at the Warsaw saber Grand Prix in 2014 … In 2013, captured bronze at the Junior World Championships … Won gold at the Sosnoweic Junior World Cup in 2013 … Took silver at the Junior World Championship in 2012 … Member of National Honor Society.
Erwin Cai:
Before Harvard:
Fenced at Nellya Fencers Club in Atlanta … 2016 U17 Mixed Team World Champion … 2016 U17 Individual World Silver Medalist … Took gold at the 2015 Konin, Poland U17 World Cup … Finished second at the 2014 Godollo, Hungary U17 World Cup … Four-time national champion … Three-time North American Cup champion … Co-President of the Academic Bowl Team … National Honor Society … Received awards for performance in mathematics and Spanish … Performed 140 hours of community service in high school
Phillipe Guy:
Before Harvard:
Fenced at Spartak Fencing Club … Bronze medalist at the Junior World Cup team event in Phoenix, Arizona (2016) … Finished fifth at the Junior North American Cup in Salt Lake City, Utah (2015) … Was the Cadet Summer Nationals champion (2014) … Captained the 2016 US Junior National Team at the Phoenix World Cup … AP Scholar … Performed in a Russian theater troupe … Father, Dmitriy, is a former US Open champion.
Danny Solomon:
Before Harvard:
Fenced at Mission Fencing from 2011-2018 … Named Long Island Fencer of the Year in 2016 … Suffolk County 2016 Individual Champion … Named to the Suffolk County first team from 2014-16 … Received All-Long Island Fencing honors from 2014-16 … Won gold as a cadet in the Junior Olympics in 2017 … Received the silver medal at the Junior Olympics in 2018 … Won gold as a cadet at the Konan European Cup in 2015 … Earned the bronze medal as a junior at the 2016 Phoenix Junior World Cup … Received the bronze medal as a cadet at the Godolla European Cup in 2015 … Member of the US Cadet National Team in 2016 and 2017 … Member of the National Honor Society in 2017 and 2018 … Father, Bruce, played lacrosse at Roanoke … Sister Ilana, fences at Columbia.
Jason Oh:
Before Harvard:
Fenced at the Manhattan Fencing Center for six years … Earned a bronze medal at the Junior Olympics and European World Cup … Received the silver medal at Junior NAC … Claimed gold at Summer Nationals … Brother, Justin, fenced at Johns Hopkins.
There seems to be a fairly large gap between Zhao’s credentials and those of the rest of the team.
Also, to @fencingmom ‘s point, even if Zhao was a recruit and even if his fencing stats are deemed subpar, he may have been recruited for academic balance, perhaps even balancing out lesser stats from some of the fencing elites you have cited.
One of the key things about the Harvard issue is whether the fencer was recruited or not.
If the fencer was recruited, then it does not matter whether he was a sub-par fencer, or a super-par candidate, because cheating is cheating. If a great fencer is caught cheating, he should be disqualified and if a great student is caught cheating, he should be expelled - even if he was good enough to have not needed the boost gained from cheating.
Just my $0.02.
@Lvillegrad Apologies in advance for my bluntness, but so what?
Not everyone on the team has World Cup stats. The disparity you cite is by no means a smoking gun.
@BrooklynRye “Also, to @fencingmom ‘s point, even if Zhao was a recruit and even if his fencing stats are deemed subpar, he may have been recruited for academic balance, perhaps even balancing out lesser stats from some of the fencing elites you have cited”
I don’t think this logic quite works. Even if he was recruited to meet Selection Index requirements, mightn’t the coach have had other possible recruits to fill that role also? And the fact that the coach chose this specific fencer becomes automatically suspicious because of the real estate transaction.
There should certainly be an investigation and nobody should be convicted without some form of due process. However, this scenario looks suspicious, at least to me.
I agree it’s no smoking gun, but if you look back through the 1000+ posts on this thread, you can’t help but see the importance of NRPS and stats in the college recruitment process.
Does Harvard even allow walk-ons? Could they not fill that spot with another highly ranked fencer?
In other (unrelated) head coach news, apparently UNC hired Ron Miller’s replacement this week:
https://goheels.com/news/2019/4/4/jednak-named-carolina-fencing-head-coach.aspx?path=fencing
Also, fencingmom has the honor of putting this thread over the 1000-post mark.
@fencingmom Sure, the disparity is not a “smoking gun”. But it is still evidence. And in combination with the real estate transaction, it certainly smells bad.
Please note that I have given my opinion of the situation based on hard evidence (rankings) and my first hand observations from being around the same segment of the fencing world as Zhao for a number of years.
@Lvillegrad - My point regarding Selection Index balancing is not to say there was nothing untoward in the Zhao recruitment. It was to note that comparing Zhao’s fencing statistics with fencing stars on the Harvard team may not be relevant toward inferring any malfeasance. As far as citing the circumstances as “evidence” I think that in doing so one must also differentiate between hard evidence, e.g., a witness or confession, versus circumstantial evidence, e.g., it just really looks bad. To my knowledge, there is no hard evidence (rankings and one’s personal observations are circumstantial) that Zhao and Brand conspired to enrich the head coach in exchange for a recruitment slot. It certainly looks bad though…
@RRRtex - Despite the importance of national points, there are fencers on most teams that are recruited for academic balancing purposes and/or due to the financial or other clout of the family. My sense is that what is pushing this situation over the edge is that Brand may have benefited personally. If, for instance, Zhou had donated a new fencing floor for the Harvard fencing program, it might not pass the smell test, but it might also not be subject to such scrutiny; and certainly not resulting in the presumptive dismissal of the head coach.
There are also other aspects to this case including Zhao flying Harvard fencers to China, maybe even international business class, and the contributions to NFF by Zhao from which Brand may also have received financial benefit. I am sure that all of these will be looked into certainly by Harvard and presumably by the NCAA.
“If, for instance, Zhou had donated a new fencing floor for the Harvard fencing program, it might not pass the smell test, but it might also not be subject to such scrutiny; and certainly not resulting in the presumptive dismissal of the head coach.”
Is that really okay? There was a U Penn basketball player who was designated a recruit to be admitted to Wharton. He legitimately played high school basketball and was a good player, but a middle class player with the same stats would have been dismissed out of hand as a recruit. The U Penn player’s dad gave money to the basketball coach so it was clearly wrong. But would it have been okay if he had donated new flooring for the gym instead?
Zhao also had a financial connection to Brand the year his older son applied to Harvard. He donated a million dollars to a foundation, where he was a board member, and that foundation then awarded a $100,000 grant to a nonprofit that Brand and his wife set up at the same time in Delaware. Both of the sons were (and, as far as I can tell, still are) B-rated fencers who were generally ranked in the 60s & 70s as Juniors, although the younger brother does not seem to have been on the JPL at all during the time he would have been “recruited.”
@ShanFerg3
The article stated that the fencing coach was “forced” into “early retirement”, then later mentioned he was 87 years old.
I found that funny.
@57special yes it is funny lol…the sentence could’ve done without the word “early”…