@BrooklynRye You can talk about whatever you choose as, in this case, you often do. I don’t see why you feel it’s appropriate to tell others how much they should talk about what’s going on at Harvard and Yale. You can participate or not. But, it’s germane to this thread. In regards to Harutunian the first I’m and am sure others have heard of sexual impropriety in his program, is here, from you. I think the time to let facts unfold was probably before dispersing of your rumor. It is a rumor until it’s at least formally alleged sir. Have you seen that anywhere? Or, did I miss it.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Just so we are clear on concept, the only person who can dictate what can be said or not said on a thread is me (or one of my colleagues). And while I would prefer that the conversation center on recruitment, it’s unrealistic to assume that the actions of fencing coaches, and what they may or may not have done, will not be discussed.
Now, if the conversation shifts to non-fencing/general athletic recruitment/Felicity Huffman, etc., I will politely guide you to the appropriate thread.
I did not tell or direct others on this thread. I suggested that we keep in mind that we are ostensibly here to listen to each other, to pay forward the benefits of our experience, and to generally maintain a pedagogic tone, rather than dwell on situations beyond our control which will most likely have limited impact on the thread’s community. At a minimum, Yale and Harvard fencing prospects represent an infinitesimal portion of posters and lurkers on this thread. I still recommend moving on, and feel it’s appropriate for me to do so as a de facto co-founder and co-host of this thread, but you are certainly free to continue to pontificate and hypothesize as you deem appropriate.
When or if others on this thread heard about any impropriety is a matter of conjecture. There are several, apparently outside of your personal circle, who are certainly aware. This is also not limited to this thread and there are many in the fencing community at large who are also aware.
As far as letting facts unfold, we are all conjecturing, whether it be in relation to the Harvard or the Yale situation. Your posts to the effect that Yale was abrupt or that Harutunian was shocked, that alumni are up in arms, and that student support is solid, are not only conjecture, they also imply that Yale is at fault. I was merely balancing the scales. As for the matter at hand, it has been formally alleged, sir, and you are indeed unaware. Appropriately, we will not necessarily hear more other than the fact of its allegation, particularly if the matter(s) was/were settled and the parties sworn to confidentiality.
@BrooklynRye my comments regarding Harutunian’s reaction and alumni support came from direct quotes in the University’s newspaper. Where did your info come from? And, I didn’t imply anyone was at fault. Only that Henry and Alumni were surprised according to their statements. I also didn’t suggest letting things unfold while injecting info I heard.
A big thank you to @BrooklynRye and @skieurope for their content and moderation respectively.
SF3: “Interesting that Harutunian’s contract wasn’t renewed after he won Ivy coach of the year, his team finished 3rd in the Ivy Championships, 7th in the NCAA Championships, and he has a good class coming in this year.”
The article you cite mentioned nothing about this situation being “interesting” let alone citing Harutunian’s achievements. This is all you. How is this situation “interesting”? What is your implication here?
SF3: “Funny in which way? I think it’s odd that it happened so abruptly, and on the heels of his most successful season in some time. One would think it would’ve happened much earlier. I find the timing curious. It also seems that he has the support of fencing Alumni. This says a lot about the impact they believe he’s had.”
Again, the above is your commentary, not strictly from the Yale article. “Funny in which way?” clearly relates to your “interesting” comment above. You note that is is “odd” that it happened so abruptly. Does the article comment on this as well? Odd? Abrupt? Did I miss something? How is the “timing curious”?
The coach claims he spent “hours” on the phone with frustrated alumni. Does this in your mind amount to “support of fencing Alumni”? If so, to what degree are we assuming this support? Granting for argument’s sake that there may be more at work here than a simple abrupt dismissal, is it possible said fencing alumni are unaware of the circumstances surrounding the firing? As @fencingmom is fond of noting, context is most often critical.
As a whole, however, we are not all privy to Yale News postings. For many, your commentary may be their first exposure/take on this issue. IMHO, your disclaimer aside, the implication in your posts is that Yale was precipitous in dismissing the coach. Your cites of his various accomplishments supports your sense of the unjustness of his firing. You are entitled to your opinion, just not to your own facts.
Rather than arduously parse your prior comments, I think at this point, I will leave it to the community to make their own assessments and judgments. As you noted, it is my prerogative to comment and join in as I deem fit. I am done.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Might I remind members of the forum rules: “Our forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place.”
Let’s support each other instead of throwing shade at one another. The snark ends now. I have deleted several posts without commentary, but if I have to delete any more after this point, my commentary will be attached to a warning.
@BrooklynRye I found it surprising, yes. Placed blame on either party, no. I don’t have enough information to responsibly do that at this point.
The latest from Yale News. It sounds to me that Alumni was in support of Harutunian, and desired to protect his legacy. Outside of him feeling blindsided, it could be great timing for a change. Mike did great things when he took over Columbia, and he certainly had his detractors when he was hired. An injection of energy and enthusiasm from a younger coach could build on one of their best seasons in some time. I did hear rumors of a coach I’m familiar with. He’s a brilliant young coach and I think would be an excellent hire. I hope the rumor is true…
Brendan McCarthy from the Boston Globe here. I’ve received permission from College Confidential to post. Our recent story about Harvard fencing has prompted a lot of discussion on this thread.
I’m interested in hearing from anyone who wishes to share their fencing recruitment experiences, offer insight on the process, or suggest aspects that merit further examination. I can be reached here or via email brendan.mccarthy@globe.com.
In other news, there’s a lot of American talent on the podium at Cadet and Junior Worlds in Turin thus far! Super exciting bouts and top notch coverage from FIE.
Especially nice post @fencingmom to ‘lighten’ the mood. In particular, a 15-year old representing Team USA just won BOTH the Junior AND the Cadet World Championships in Women’s Foil. She did this competing on consecutive days. Just awesome!
Double gold, impressive, but coming back from 9-14 with 25 seconds is insane. Six straight unanswered points in the time span of two deep breaths.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Confirming that @mccarthyglobe is with the Globe and that he has received authorization to post on the site.
USA in good hands
From a recruiting perspective, it is interesting to note that a lot of the top NCAA head coaches attend Cadet & Junior Worlds. It is a showcase for top fencers from around the world. It is also an opportunity for coaches to get some extensive viewing of fencers of both genders, in all weapons, often for the first time. A strong showing by an up and coming prospective recruit can go a long way toward enhancing that fencer’s recruitment value. Making a Cadet and/or a Junior World team is the pinnacle of success for Cadet and Junior Division fencers, most of whom will not make a Senior Team let alone an Olympic Team. It is from these younger division fencers that competitive NCAA teams draw and one can rest assured many if not all of the names you see competing for Team USA at these events, will be showcased at colleges around the country in the near future.
I think it’s safe to say that while not all fencers who make the world team will make the Olympics, most US Olympians 30 and under have made the world teams. So, it can definitely be a harbinger of things to come. Pretty much making a world team places a fencer at the very top of their recruiting class.
An interesting point regarding Olympic teams. As it relates to recruitment and college fencing, I did a rough count during the recent NCAA Championships in Cleveland and am willing to bet that upwards of 25% of the field made at least one Cadet or Junior World Team. Notably, I would bet even more that the overwhelming majority of that 25% are fencing for the top 4 finishers - Columbia, PSU, Notre Dame, or Harvard.
@BrooklynRye I agree with this, very good point. I would have to throw Princeton in there for Women Epee.
I believe that PU had 2 former World Team members competing in Cleveland, yes, 1 in WE. CU had something like 8-10. Same for ND. With maybe 4 or 5 each for PSU and Harvard.