Princeton’s best Woman Epeeist, whom won the NCAA last year, didn’t compete this year. She was also on world teams. I assumed she’s preparing for a run at the Olympics.
Wow! Easy to see why Columbia and ND dominate. Phenomenal rosters. On another note, I was so proud of Columbia’s Women Epeeist whom won the NCAA this year. My daughter and she fenced out of the same club and she has grown so much as a fencer. Great girl and family. Talk about the rich getting richer, Columbia has a WE coming in this year that may be the best on the team as a freshman. She’s that good.
This is off topic a little bit, just trying to understand. How can Nicole Pustilnik fence for USA at JO’s but fence for Israel in Worlds? I thought it was one or the other?
@dinjimh Fencers can change their country allegiance. I believe each country has their own rules about when an athlete is able to do that – clearly Israel’s timeline allows for a mid-season change up.
@fencingmom: But wouldn’t she have had to qualify under the banner of Israel throughout the season which just ended?
@dinjimh - I believe it has to do with the timing of the fencer’s change in country affiliation. JO’s mark the close of the Cadet/Junior season in the US. As a championship tournament, non-US citizens/Team USA are not eligible. However, depending on when the fencer change affiliations, she may have either done so after JOs or may have been grandfathered through the remainder of the 2018-2019 season. In any case, there is no question that the fencer in question now represents Israel.
It did seem kind of fast, I had assumed she was representing US, was shocked to see that. So she will no longer be able to fence at JO’s or Nationals I assume?
@SevenDad I don’t think so. We’ve known fencers that have switched allegiance, and while it was not Israel, they did not have to fence for their respective countries before they could start representing them at international competitions. I don’t think an athlete could do this for a country with a bevy of fencers, like France or Italy, but for countries with smaller teams it seems almost immediate. The fencers we knew had to have an interview and at least one of their parents held a passport from the country to which they switched.
@dinjimh No, she will no longer be able to represent the US or participate in competitions that do not allow foreign fencers.
@fencingmom: So that still leaves me with the question of how did she qualify for worlds…wouldn’t she have had to earn points as an ISR fencer to get that slot? Or is it more about the fencer qualifying, regardless of nationality?
I’m not doubting that it’s all above board, or else the FIE would not have allowed it…just curious how national team representation at Worlds works outside of US/for nations with smaller squads.
I also noticed several JMF fencers who are regulars on the US circuit (NACs, JOs, etc) who were fencing at Worlds for different countries, although they live in the US.
@RRRtex: Except JOs is supposed to only be for US fencers…I was always relieved that the Canadians weren’t allowed to fence in that event! 
@SevenDad I’m not sure about that. I know Israel does not typically field a large number of fencers. Perhaps given previous results while fencing for another country can automatically qualify an athlete. I know several fencers who have gone this route – their results in the US (with such a strong field) are not good enough to qualify them for international events, so they change allegiance to another country with a smaller cohort. I’m not sure what the appeal is for this as these athletes never seem to do well at the internationals they then attend under the new banner, but maybe they are looking for international points or experience – not sure.
This is not unique to fencing or to youth sports. 6% of the athletes who competed this year in Pyeongchang competed under a flag different from the flag of their birth country - presumably for the reason mentioned.
I stand corrected - just checked JO results, and two “foreign” fencers were not there. Honestly, all these tournaments seem to run into one another! ?
Sticking to fencing, fencers are permitted to compete for other countries and many do for the reasons cited above. However, those fencers can no longer compete in USA Fencing national events designated as “championships”, e.g., JOs, or at international designated events including Cadet and Junior World Cups. The timing may work out that there is some overlap in the sense of seeing someone who one knows is fencing for a foreign country fencing at a domestic championship as in the Pustilnik case, but that is rare and is purely a matter of timing. Note that she is not registered for the DV1 National Championship occurring this weekend.
For any high school fencers or parents who have recently discovered this thread, I’d like to summarize what you can expect here from a small group of dedicated fencing parents who have successfully navigated the recruiting process in the last few years:
We are here to answer questions about the recruiting process, timing, and recruitability of ALL high school fencers that wish to continue fencing in college. There are fencing parents that regularly participate here that represent knowledge from a variety of fencing programs, from Ivies and other elite schools, non-Ivy Div 1 programs at large public and private schools including other top 10 fencing programs, and well-established, well-funded, competitive Div 3 fencing programs.
You should also know that you do not need to be in the “top half of the junior points list” or have multiple NAC podium finishes or international fencing experience to be a collegiate fencer. There are B and C rated fencers on top 10 Div 1 teams. There are unrated fencers that become part of a strong Div 3 squad and have an excellent experience in collegiate fencing with great squads, coaching, and general college experience.
The recent discussion on this thread has been focused on the whiff of collegiate admissions scandal touching fencing and some thoughts about recent coaching changes, because those topics have some interest to fencing parents, and have some applicability to the recruiting process.
In summary:
There are 45 collegiate fencing schools, of which only 7 are Ivy league. Many of the top 10 fencing teams are not Ivy league, and some of the strongest Div 3 fencing schools are better than some Div 1 schools. If you are a high school fencer with some level of experience, chances are there’s a collegiate program that will fit you both academically and for fencing. We’re here to help you achieve that goal if that’s what you want. We can give you guidance of good match schools for both, and help you through the process of recruitment to land on a team and school you’ll love.
I recommend reading the first page of this now 72 page thread as a starting point, and then ask questions here!!
@stencils Very nice summary ???..I would add a caveat. While it’s true that B, C, or unrated fencers are on Div 1 and 3 schools, chances are, with few exception, they made the team as walk ons, and were admitted to their schools without being recruited. I remember someone posted about a WE fencer whom was recruited to Penn U as a B fencer. When I looked it up, I noticed she was from Canada. International students are evaluated a bit differently in that regard, but still have to be very strong fencers to be recruited into the top programs. Some walkons have become the #1 in their weapon at their schools, and are valuable members of their programs.
@ShanFerg3 speaking as the parent of a non-junior points list, B rated fencer recruited to a top 10 fencing team, I can definitively say it happens.
Also, a B or C fencer is a prized recruit to most Div3 programs. Recruiting means more than an Ivy LL to 80% of the collegiate fencing community.
Again, in summary, there are 38 non-Ivy fencing schools. Let’s keep this thread inclusive, as it’s better for ALL collegiate fencing if more HS fencers continue on in college.
I agree that B and C are prize recruits to Div 3 programs. Wow! I have to say I learned something new today @stencils. If you don’t mind me asking, where was your child ranked in his/her weapon the graduating year? Just looking at the recruited fencers the years I’ve been involved in the sport. Recruited fencers to the Ivies and top Div 1 seem to follow a certain guideline. I’m not trying to be non inclusive, lol. If newcomers to this thread have certain aspirations, I think it’s beneficial to help them understand the landscape. I think if a fencer plans to be recruited to the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, Notre Dame, Penn State, Ohio State, they should be prepared to meet certain bench marks. I’m sure there are exceptions. I wouldn’t know what those exceptions are. But, I wouldn’t recommend preparing to be the exception as sound strategy. I’m confused by the pushback to this. Btw, I did say “chances are, with few exceptions” in my post. Are we in disagreement here?