Question for the experienced group: do you recommend that your fencer set up a meeting with a coach at Summer Nationals they have already met with on their college visit? I have a Junior on national points list, although not super high. I’ve tried to narrow down where he is based on birth year and eliminating those I know are different graduating year. That gets him to 35, at worse, but I suspect better than that as I’m sure they’re fencers with different graduating year I haven’t been able to eliminate with limited knowledge. What programs would be realistic, fencing-wise? He’s a solid B fencer, has been within a few touches of A ranking multiple times. Do coaches have much pull with Admissions? Don’t have enough $$ to buy a coach’s house, so… ?
@RRRtex I’m sure those with experience in this arena will provide excellent advice once they read your post. I will say you are absolutely correct in regards to some fencers in your son’s birth year may not be coming out his year. Also, his academic stats will be an important part of this equation.
Good point on academics. He has strong grades, Full IB diploma candidate, but SAT score a bit lower than other admitted students. He’s working on getting that up now. Has looked at some “lower level” Div 1 programs and Div 3. He would like to contribute to his college team, not just ride the bench. But would also like to be challenged by his teammates.
I feel, sometimes, like we’re trying to thread a needle with a rope!
Great description lol. Have you considered the ACT? I read somewhere this test is more popular amongst fencers. I know my daughter felt the ACT was better suited for her,
@ShanFerg3 Took the ACT yesterday. ??
Fantastic! I would recommend sending a PM to @BrooklynRye and @SevenDad. It seems @stencils has some experience in this arena as well.
@RRRtex btw, some could’ve traveled to the Div 1 Championships in Salt Lake this weekend.
@RRRtex My daughter was in a similar situation and level of fencing. She wanted to compete and not just sit on the bench or be just practice squad, but also have fencers better than her on the squad that could help her continue to improve. As I’m sure you’ve figured out, this means moving past the Ivies and other perennial powerhouse or selective schools like ND, Stanford, PSU, and Ohio State.
My D’s experience was that non-elite schools near the bottom of the top 10 or just outside the top 10 were the sweet spot for coach interest at this level, as well as those at the top of division 3. I’m more knowledgeable about women’s than men’s program strength, so someone else may add additional color, but for us this was non-Ivy schools in the rankings range of Duke, St. Johns, UNC, NYU, Temple, Brandeis, and Stevens. I’ll say that Duke has gotten better in the last two years though, so they may be a reach fencing-wise.
Expanding the scope a bit further, I’d include Boston College, JHU, UCSD, and NJIT, but the quality of individual weapon squads becomes more variable as you move further down the list to the point a strong B fencer might be the strongest on a given weapon squad. Our experience is this will depend very much by school, weapon, and strength of the incoming and outgoing class where you may get the most attention, so it helps to do your homework to know where the best fit may be.
I’ll also add that Summer Nationals are the perfect opportunity to get face-to-face with many coaches and have a solid 30 minutes of one-on-one time. My daughter’s experience was that coaches were honest about where you were on the recruiting possibility list.
NCAA Championships will be in Detroit in 2020, corresponding to the March NAC for Y10, Y12, & Y14. Clever, as it will be a good opportunity for future recruits to see NCAA fencing.
@chelsea456: Literally same weekend? I didn’t really check the posted sched. past the events my daughter might be interested in. I do think that’s good coordination between the various organizations. I can remember going to my kid’s first “youth” NAC back when they combined it with Div1…was great to see all the “famous” fencers walking around the venue.
@chelsea465 - This is great! There has been a lot of talk about greater cooperation between the NCAA and USA Fencing. Now, with Don Anthony wearing hats in both of these organizations, it appears there will be some real headway made in this area. Kudos to both organizations!
As new parents in the big recruiting year now with high school juniors about to start the summer before their senior year…can someone explain the summer national process and what to expect? Can you break it down for top ranked fencers, mid range fencers and newer lower ranked fencers to help everyone out on what to expect. Do college coaches seek you out and schedule times, do your club coaches need to set meetings up, do the fencers need to do it, a combonation of all of the above. Are the meetings scheduled before nationals or ad-hoc during nationals. Should they be starting now that April NAC is finished or does it start in June closer to nationals? When we plan our travel how many days past the Jr/Div 1 should we stay? Do parents participate or allow our kids to step up and start showing showing some maturity in their future? Are there any etiquette rules on what you do or don’t say to other parents or kids about who you are talking to or thinking about?
We would really appreciate hearing your experiences of summer nationals and how that was for you and your kids. There is a perception that if you are a top ranked fencer you will know by the end of nationals where you will likely be going. Is that realistic?
And…thank you for this thread and all the great advice, links and information. Excellent source and glad we found it.
Welcome! DS went through this process last year, so I’ll answer your questions as best as I can. Hopefully, you’ve had a chance to read through this entire string of posts. The multiple perspectives and experiences were extremely enlightening about the process. In fact, much of what I will write here has already been shared by others before.
RE: can someone explain the summer national process and what to expect? Can you break it down for top ranked fencers, mid range fencers and newer lower ranked fencers to help everyone out on what to expect.
This can vary substantially by year, college, coach, weapon, and fencer. Most top ranked (i.e., top 10 in grade) fencers in their junior year for a given gender and weapon will have already committed and received a commitment from a college coach prior to summer nationals before senior year. For everyone else, summer nationals is a convenient and timely place to set up interviews with college coaches. You will see coaches and kids meeting all over the convention center.
RE: Do college coaches seek you out and schedule times, do your club coaches need to set meetings up, do the fencers need to do it, a combination of all of the above.
Typically, appointments are made by the fencer by email ahead of time with the respective coaches. As recommended in this thread, fencers should already have had email correspondence with coaches and possibly an informal visit with the coach well before summer after junior year.
RE: Are the meetings scheduled before nationals or ad-hoc during nationals. Should they be starting now that April NAC is finished or does it start in June closer to nationals? When we plan our travel how many days past the Jr/Div 1 should we stay?
Unofficial meetings at the college that are initiated by the fencer can occur at any time. Indeed, the new rule this year is that official visits can occur once the fencer has started junior year. Again, these are generally arranged by email between fencer and coach. Lots of advice on this thread about the nature of the email correspondence between fencer and coach, including what the fencing and academic resume might contain. Spring break, which has probably passed for your child, is a common time to visit with the coaches at their offices. For meetings at Summer Nationals, these traditionally are scheduled for a time after the fencer has completed the Junior Challenge.
RE: Do parents participate or allow our kids to step up and start showing showing some maturity in their future?
I’ve seen and heard of either. This is a fencer, coach, and family decision. There is no hard and fast rule.
RE: Are there any etiquette rules on what you do or don’t say to other parents or kids about who you are talking to or thinking about?
All the same stuff we were supposed to learn in kindergarten. Be kind and humble. Don’t gossip. Only share what you feel comfortable with.
RE: We would really appreciate hearing your experiences of summer nationals and how that was for you and your kids. There is a perception that if you are a top ranked fencer you will know by the end of nationals where you will likely be going. Is that realistic?
I posted my son’s experience earlier in this thread. Last year, as I wrote above, nearly all of the top 10 male and female foilists that were juniors had already made commitments prior to the end of May. So, yes, a top ranked fencer may very well be a recruit even before summer nationals begin. However, being a recruit does not equal where the fencer is going. The fencer must still apply, get accepted, and then decide to go to that school. Being recruited only gets your application reviewed early with the possibility of a likely letter or equivalent, and subsequent acceptance. The admission committee makes the final decision.
Good luck in this exciting process. As mentioned many times in this thread, If a student wants to fence in college, then they can make it happen!
Welcome @SaberJR ! I just wanted to echo what @helmut? said (all excellent advice) and emphasize that ideally your fencer(s) should be starting the process during junior year, i.e., now. If you/they have identified some schools of interest, then s/he should send those coaches brief emails with resumes, transcripts, fencing resumes (more fully discussed elsewhere on the thread), and the responses will help to determine next steps. If there are schools of particular interest and you are thinking of visiting, definitely say so. You are allowed to visit the campuses on unofficial visits now or of course over the summer. Our experience is that the coaches responded positively to the fencer showing initiative/maturity/meeting without parents in tow but I’m sure that varies widely.
Good luck!
Welcome to the thread, SaberJR! While there are lots of pages to go through, I would encourage trying to read through this thread from the beginning.
As noted by helmut?, I think the SN-meeting process is really more for the fencers below the top tier (my daughter was in this category). While lots of meetings do go on at SN in plain sight (and some more clandestine), you probably won’t see any current or former national team members sitting across a table from coaches because those commitments have already been made.
At this point in the process, my daughter was the one contacting coaches, and set up two meetings with coaches with whom she had already been corresponding/already had done an unofficial visit with (this was under the old rules). While in her case nothing was finalized at these meetings (where we were also present), it was a chance to reaffirm interest (for both parties)…and both coaches eventually offered her an OV in the fall, after which she committed to the D1 school she currently attends.
Interestingly, one program (where she had also done an unofficial visit) declined to meet with her at SN, stating that they had other fencers above her that they were pursuing but that they’d “keep her in mind if anything changed.” TBH, I thought it was very poor form of that program to not even take a meeting…it would have been a mere 15-20 minutes of their time. The school (an Ivy) later offered her an LL, which she declined. My point in sharing this part of her story is to say that sometimes various dominos have to fall into place before the lower tiers of fencers get serious consideration.
Welcome @SaberJR !
I’m just back from a week of business travel, and have only a small bit to add to the excellent commentary above. My D was a half-step below sevendad’s D in the recruiting pecking order, but the process was nearly identical.
She had 5 or 6 coach interviews during SNs, many with coaches that she was meeting face to face for the first time. All were pre-arranged via email prior to arrival. This led to two D1 official visits, one unofficial visit, and two D3 coach/school visits the during senior year. I attended all of the meetings, but my D did 90%+ of the talking.
Coaches were honest on where my D was in recruiting order during the meetings. One coach that we met with during SNs said my D was probably below the cutoff on their recruiting list contacted her again later in the fall as a couple of their higher level recruits made other decisions, so @SevenDad 's comment that “sometimes various dominos have to fall into place before the lower tiers of fencers get serious consideration” was definitely our experience as well.
Thank you @helmut? @SpaceVoyager @SevenDad and @Stencils for the warm welcome and feedback. We have done some unofficial visits this spring to his top school choices and have talked with a few coaches. Thought maybe it was at the summer nationals when the more formal discussions start but sounds like we are doing the right things and will see where this all leads. I was able to look back at some of the post from a few of you last December and very helpful to see your timelines of when/how things fell into line. Sounds like it can all be a bit different for everyone and like several have said it also depends on what each school needs, what other fencers decide to do, and of course academics always a top requirement. Really appreciate this thread and all of your wisdom and guidance for those who have gone through this ahead of us!!!
I’m going to disagree a little bit about the number of top fencers who commit well before Nationals. My son was one of the top 3 recruits in his weapon/year, and of the top three, one committed before Nationals, my son committed at Nationals after meeting with multiple coaches (he had already made an unofficial visit to his first choice, but he wanted to compare offers), and the other did not commit until October of senior year, after taking official visits at his top three choices. At least one other kid who was in the top 10 for weapon/year was still talking to several colleges in August and ultimately committed to an Ivy in September (after the August SAT scores were released).
I also know that one of the very highest recruits in any gender/weapon last year did not commit until Nationals (or even later), because I saw the student, with parent and personal coach in tow, in a very earnest meeting with several coaches from one of the top fencing programs. This student later committed to a different program.
I think the early commits are more likely to be fencers for whom finances are not an issue. Those who need to take finances into account may be more likely to wait until Nationals, in order to meet with multiple coaches and compare offers. I think this is especially true when academic scholarships are also involved, since most kids are still taking SATs/ACTs in spring of Junior year. And in the case of the student I mentioned above who committed in September, his Ivy offer was contingent on hitting a certain score on the August SAT; if he had not gotten the score he needed, he would have moved on to his second choice school, and the coach would have moved on to his second choice recruit.
@Corraleno: FWIW, I did hedge my statement about this: “I think the SN-meeting process is really more for the fencers below the top tier”…I didn’t say it was exclusively for the sub-top tier groups. I think you make a great point about the early-early commits likely being fencers for whom finances are not an issue.