I’ve been meaning to circle back to share my thoughts on the issue of roster size/depth that superdomestique touched on in post #1177.
I do think it’s a balancing act. Too small a roster and you have the downsides SD (the “other SD”!) mentions. On the other hand, there can also be issues with having too large a roster…especially if the prospective athlete wants to compete his/her first season.
For example, when I look at the larger rosters, I sometimes see fairly strong fencers that get little to no strip time. Maybe that’s their choice. But I’m guessing it’s not…player want to play, right?
And even at schools with smaller rosters made up of excellent (national team and near-national team) fencers, there are superstars that will certainly be starting regardless of who is coming in, leaving really only 1 or 2 slots “up for grabs” in a given year. So you have to ask yourself, “What are my chances of earning the 1-2 free slots vs. the rest of the fencers on the squad…including those within my own class?” While there are pros to joining an already strong squad, there are also minuses…again, I think each fencer has to do their own calculus on what teams/rosters are the best fits or which offer the best chance of competing and contributing to the W-L columns day one.
And if a prospective athlete has eyes on competing in the NCAA Championships, remember that there is a max of 2 fencers per weapon per gender…so the opportunities are even more limited.
To further complicate things, the way each coach picks their starters/reserves is different and the line up can change even from meet to meet. Something worth asking about for anyone that has OVs lined up.
Here’s to a happy, healthy school year for all of our kids - in the classroom, on the strip, at home, with their friends, and wherever else their journeys may take them.
I think there are actually 2 issues contained in this post. The first is if and when to narrow focus to 1 sport. The second is how intensively to pursue that sport.
Unlike baseball and other major sports, fencing can be remarkably expensive. When we started we were of course aware of the expense of equipment and lessons. Little did we know that the snowball hadn’t even started to roll downhill.
12 years past our son’s first tournament, I am embarrassed as to how much money we invested into this sport. The pay-off, however, has been staggeringly in excess of that investment. While this is clearly not everyone’s path, my point is that, in the first place, the sheer cost of fencing precluded multiple sports.
As for devotion of time, I think a child’s sport takes on a life of it’s own. While there was some pressure from coaches to take more lessons and to compete in more tournaments, it was nothing compared to the pressure felt by our friends’ baseball (as well as in other major sports) kids. In the end, with no pressure from us, and relatively mild pressure from coaches, it was our son’s decision to put more time into HIS sport. We were fortunate to discover this formula early-on – ownership of the sport by the athlete. It has guided us throughout our son’s fencing career and never failed to prompt our son’s recognition of his primary responsibility for his craft.
The diverse sports activities and intensity piece are indeed issues in the life of particularly young children. As they grow, some, most I would argue, will simply leave their sport. For those who discover a passion, however, the snowball will roll right over you…
@BrooklynRye - could not agree more about the cost of the sport, and we’re not even doing international events. Can’t imagine how much that adds!
Would be interested to know about the “pay-off” you received. Is it like the MasterCard commercial - “priceless” (watching your child through success/defeat, relationships made along the way, etc…), or was your D also rewarded with scholarship funding? I’ve often laughed when talking with non-fencing folk who comment about scholarship money. I think if I had saved the $ spent on fencing, I would be able to fund several years of college!
When is the appropriate time (or is it not appropriate?) to discuss potential merit aid/scholarship with coach? Does a parent initiate this discussion? Just curious… we’ve certainly felt the “priceless” pay-off, but wouldn’t mind a little $ pay-off, too. ?
Ivies do not give scholarships or merit awards. I believe most if not all provide solely need-based aid at this point.
DV3 schools also do not give scholarships. While merit aid may be available, my understanding is that this is generally at the discretion of admissions. It may be worth addressing this with the coach to the extent to which there are ‘soft’ merit aid awards that can go to incoming athletes.
Scholarships should be discussed up front with schools that offer them, primarily the “big box” schools such as Notre Dame, OSU, PSU, and St. John’s. Availability of scholarships depends on the allocation among current fencers and/or the perceived recruiting value of the incoming freshman.
Need-based aid, if applicable, should be addressed with all schools, particularly those that are primary targets. Specifically, you should request a financial (as opposed to academic) pre-read, if available, to determine whether or not substantial need-based aid is viable.
Bottom line: Be proactive, ask questions whenever you can. Know your child’s recruiting value. This will help you know when it is appropriate (and effective) to push.
@Corraleno: Interesting choice. Sort of sucks for the crop of freshman who chose Cornell thinking Coach Schneider would be part of mix.
Cornell has to scramble now…because the don’t really have any assistants. Zach Boynton is listed as “armorer” (though I’m pretty sure he has served as an unofficial coach in recent years). Nicole Ross, who started when Coach Schneider did, is on leave for Olympic qualifying and the person who was hired to fill her spot went back to Air Force to assume the head coach job. Cornell had a strong showing at NCAAs last year with just 3 qualifiers, and IMO are getting some good fencers in the class of 2023. Let’s hope the school finds someone good to lead them — and quick!
Coach Klinkov was most recently with Wellesley…so the game of musical chairs continues.
Now Wellesley needs to find a new coach. And Cornell should probably fill their vacant Assistant Coach slot and/or make “armorer” Zach Boynton an official assistant.
The overlapping of head coaches and assistant coaches in terms of weapons expertise is pretty common. The head coaching role is so much more than lessons and strip coaching that a dedicated weapons coach who overlaps the head coach never goes to waste.
Having gone through the fencing recruiting process 2 years ago, I remember being very frustrated at times when coaches would take weeks to respond to emails or texts or not respond at all at times. I am currently at an Ivy and I can say that my coach literally has hundreds of emails to respond to at any given time between August and November on top of managing the team and many other bureaucratic things to take care of (compliance, meetings, forms, etc.) So for all of you who are getting frustrated with the lack of timely correspondence, please don’t read into it at all. It is perfectly normal and they will get back to you eventually.
@corraleno - Info spot-on! FYI @arwarw - Have firsthand familiarity with fencers applying for and receiving TUEs for ADD meds and particularly for asthma medications including for Albuterol inhalers and nebulizers.
Keep in mind that for many of these medications it’s about abuse, not about regular use. The prescribed dosages for most if not all of these meds would not come near the violation threshold in a drug test. My son was once competing in an international event where the temps were very high and there was no a/c in the venue. It caused him to have to use his Albuterol inhaler throughout the day. I mean he must have used it 5-7x. At the end of the event he was selected for drug testing and had no problems. In any case, follow the TUE path and do your due diligence.
@Fuzebox87 I haven’t heard anything about Lafayette coaches leaving, but it’s one of the few Div1 teams that hasn’t historically funded a full time head coach. I think that has contributed to consistent coaching turnover at Lafayette in the last 5 years.
If you look at the historical press release intros for both prior coach Rottau (hired 2015) and coach Kolasa (hired 2017), both bios mention other primary jobs.
For our D, currently ranked 5th in her weapon among other high school seniors, she has only recently been offered three slots.
Two non-ivy D1 and one D3 school. The D3 school coach asked her to apply ED, while the two D1 schools are regular. Of the five ivies she has worked to maintain contact with over the past year or so, three have recently offered support for her application if she applies ED, but no slot and no pre-read. I don’t think her AI of 219 is high enough to make it as a walk-on so it would probably be a waste of time to apply. We were hoping a slot might open up before ED, but nothing so far.
Actually am surprised there are no Ivy recruiting offers for a top 5 + 219 AI. This is hardly a low index. More significantly, it is substantially above the AI Ivies often play with for desirable recruits. As an athletic recruit, your daughter does not have to have the typical AI associated with Ivy League admission (let’s say this is around 220+). As long as the coach keeps the composite index of his team within acceptable norms, i.e., balancing a lower AI with a higher one. In some cases, e.g., Penn, there may be a freshman tutoring sessions requirement for recruits below a certain level of AI, but this does not impede recruitment for top candidates.
As for application choices, you are now faced with the conundrum of many top recruits which is to decide between fully committed slots (whether or not your daughter applies early) versus a coach-supported application at a perhaps more desirable school. Personally, I am always leery of “support” as I view this as heavily weighted toward the coach who has little to lose and may gain a top recruit without using up an official recruitment slot. The weight of coach support also varies from program to program. I doubt, under normal circumstances, that any coach’s supported application track record is better than 50/50, and suspect that most offer much lower odds than that.
In any case, your circumstances call for a hard evaluation of your family’s priorities when it comes to a choice of college. As is often emphasized on this thread, college should first be a choice of academics and best fit for your child. While fencing is important and will be a significant part of your child’s life in college, it is transitory and often fades sooner than we anticipate.
If admission to an Ivy is the priority, you have a tough choice; giving up the proverbial bird in the hand for a shot. It is great that she is on their radar, but it is very late in the game for an opening. Btw, however, I don’t believe that a “walk-on” position is a difficult proposition at all. This is the whole theory behind “support”…The coaches expect you to walk-on if you can gain admission on your own.
Good luck and please let us know how it turns out!