<p>Cal got worst after I came there. The California budget crisis was just starting to bloom. Before, it was an acceptable price of 25k a year plus living expenses to go to Cal as an out of state student, not 40k. </p>
<p>I'm sorry I couldn't predict the political winds of California, I'm not a god. All I can do now is deter those who would come to Berkeley from coming and wasting the best years of their lives at a mediocre institution filled with mediocre, unrealistic people.</p>
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I'm not a god.
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<p>Thankfully.</p>
<p>Even if you did have a bad time, dont you have something better to do rather than spend all your time telling people to not go to Berkeley.</p>
<p>Shiboing, it is a common misconception to assume that state universities do not offer personalized education. The reason for that is simple. All major state schools, be it Cal, UCLA, Wisconsin, UIUC, UNC, UT-Austin, Michigan etc... are primarily major research universities with faculties that are world authorities in their chosen fields and as such, conduct cutting edge research to better this world. That cannot be said of all private universities. Not all private universities are primarily "research institutions". Some of them, like Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, MIT and Stanford definitely are primarily research universities. However, a great many private universities, like Brown, Dartmouth, Duke, Emory, Georgetown, Princeton, Vanderbilt, Washington University and dozens of excellent LACs are primarily instrcutional institutions.</p>
<p>I personally know several people who did their undergraduate studies at places like Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard and Stanford and then proceeded to complete their PhD studies at places like Cal or Michigan and they told me the way undergrads are treated at the privates is no better than the way they are treated at the publics.</p>
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I personally know several people who did their undergraduate studies at places like Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard and Stanford and then proceeded to complete their PhD studies at places like Cal or Michigan and they told me the way undergrads are treated at the privates is no better than the way they are treated at the publics.
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<p>Well it's important to remember that undergrads can get LOTS of personal attention if they put in a little extra effort. For example, at Cal, undergraduate research apprentices are frequently encouraged to audit graduate seminars on the subject of the research. Apparently, Shiboing Boing failed at knowing that.</p>
<p>That is definitely true. Students who take the initiative and are willing to work hard will generally get what they want at a school like Cal. Those who aren't as aggressive and assertive will generally do better at a LAC. However, those who think a private research institution will treat its undergrads better than the publics are in for a major disapointment. Undergads are as much a priority at Harvard as they are at Cal.</p>
<p>Though Harvard has a similar policy of focusing on graduate studies similar to Cal, noone will dispute that Harvard is the more prestigious institution and that an association with Harvard is worth much more than an association with Cal.</p>
<p>Cal offers no mitigating benefit in this respect.</p>
<p>In addition, you are right that many public universities offer personalized attention for those that desire it. Cal doesn't and should be noted for this. In addition, Cal also unfairly distributes resources between majors. Why should business majors get more attention if all students are paying the same situation? Why shouldn't all students have the opportunity to enter an honors program where they can prove themselves? </p>
<p>The assertion that those who take iniative and work harder will get "what they want" at Cal is a falsehood. I know of plenty of people that did not get what they wanted despite working hard at Cal. Yes, you often fail due to random luck, but Cal places extra obstacles in the way of the motivated hard-working student through its unresponsive bureacracy, uneven quality of its faculty, and the unequal distribution of resources among majors (among many other factors). I find it ironic that I received more help from friends of friends (students at other colleges) and mentors off campus than I ever did from any professor or student on UC Berkeley Campus (despite having more experience with the latter). Why is it that one hears stories of students with 4.0's not being able to write honors thesis because they can't find a faculty sponsor? Why is it that one finds stories of students having to work tooth and nail for things people at other colleges (even lower ranked public ones) take for granted?</p>
<p>It seems ironic that public schools which are not as prestigious often try harder to prove they are great schools. UCLA has its honors program. UT also has a similar plan II honors program.</p>
<p>Cal has a highly uneven academic program, a mediocre student body, and an awful housing situation. It deserves to be blasted and it deserves to have itself knocked down even from the mildy respectable ranking it holds in the minds of most people. There are very few worse places to go to school for the price than Berkeley if you are an out-of-state student. Even in-state, Berkeley doesn't deserve its position as the "third-best" school in the state.</p>
<p>Actual Quote from Post 22: "All I can do now is deter those who would come to Berkeley from coming and wasting the best years of their lives at a mediocre institution filled with mediocre, unrealistic people."</p>
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In addition, you are right that many public universities offer personalized attention for those that desire it. Cal doesn't and should be noted for this.
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<p>Cal DOES do this. You just refuse to acknowledge the fact. (Although you sometimes DO acknowledge it-as in your irrational discussion of Haas.....inconsistency = lunacy?)</p>
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The assertion that those who take iniative and work harder will get "what they want" at Cal is a falsehood. I know of plenty of people that did not get what they wanted despite working hard at Cal.
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<p>Maybe you know the wrong people? There certainly exist students who take initiative, work hard, and get "what they want."</p>
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uneven quality of its faculty
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<p>You are somewhat wrong on this charge. The vast majority of Berkeley faculty are leaders in their fields and subfields.</p>
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I find it ironic that I received more help from friends of friends (students at other colleges) and mentors off campus than I ever did from any professor or student on UC Berkeley Campus (despite having more experience with the latter).
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<p>Your experience with professors should not be overgeneralized.</p>
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Why is it that one hears stories of students with 4.0's not being able to write honors thesis because they can't find a faculty sponsor?
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<p>Maybe they failed to contact the faculty member early enough?</p>
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Why is it that one finds stories of students having to work tooth and nail for things people at other colleges (even lower ranked public ones) take for granted?
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<p>Like? </p>
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UCLA has its honors program.
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<p>As I understand it, it's basically a program that allows for early registration...</p>
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awful housing situation
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<p>Most people seem quite satisfied with housing as far as I've experienced. Besides, how does housing affect ACADEMIC quality? (Notice how graduate students have it much tougher in the housing market than undergrads and yet usually don't see it as an obstacle to academic success...)</p>
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Even in-state, Berkeley doesn't deserve its position as the "third-best" school in the state.
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<p>Third best? I've always thought of it as second best since CalTech isn't REALLY a university.</p>
<p>So the other day, I was sitting near Wheeler eating my Subway sandwich when a squirrel approached me. When I offered a piece of wheat bread, the squirrel scoffed and ran away. </p>
<p>No more than 2 minutes later, the same squirrel comes back with a gargantuan piece of something in its mouth. Upon closer inspection, I see that it's a fun size Snickers bar still in the wrapper. The squirrel seems to be educating me on what is acceptable squirrel food.</p>
<p>When the squirrel senses that I get the point, he wrestles with the wrapper for a few minutes to gain access to the contents. And for the next 20 minutes, I watch in pure amazement as he nibbles every morsel and licks his hands clean. :D</p>
<p>Hahaha. Classic. :)</p>
<p>Great story.</p>
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However, those who think a private research institution will treat its undergrads better than the publics are in for a major disapointment. Undergads are as much a priority at Harvard as they are at Cal.
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<p>While I don't agree with Shiboing Boing on everything, I will say that Harvard clearly has one major edge at Cal when it comes to undergrad prioritization, and that is the graduation rate. Something like 10-12% of Cal undergrads will never graduate, compared to something like 1-1.5% at Harvard. While obviously some schools have some voluntary dropouts (i.e. Bill Gates or Jason Kidd) who find something better to do with their time, Cal also has a conspicuous extra group of students who simply flunk out. It's practically impossible to flunk out of Harvard.</p>
<p>Hence, I think that's evidence of Cal REALLY not prioritizing its undergrads relative to Harvard. Like I've always said, why does Cal persist in admitting students who are going to flunk out? If somebody is going to flunk out, then don't admit him in the first place. Now obviously nobody knows EXACTLY who will flunk out, but there are definitely strong correlating factors you can use, just like you can strongly infer that somebody who smokes 3 packs a day and weighs 300 pounds is probably going to die young. </p>
<p>If you really cared about your students, you wouldn't admit certain students only to ruin their academic records and toss them right back out on the street. Those students should be directed to schools at which they can be successful. I'm sure that quite a few people who flunked out of Berkeley could have done just fine at San Jose State or UC-Riverside or something. But if they go to Berkeley and flunk out, it's difficult for them to transfer elsewhere because no school wants to admit transfers who flunked out of their prior school.</p>
<p>This thread is about squirrels. I almost stepped on a squirrel the other day, because I was distracted by two other squirrels chasing each other up and down a tree. The little dude was just sitting in the middle of the path and didn't even flinch when I walked within an inch of him.</p>
<p>I've also got squirrels living in the oak tree outside my apartment, which reaches right up to my window. So I can see them peeking in sometimes.</p>