<br>
<blockquote> <p>I would knock the schools that are more than 90% instate as too provincial for an OOS student. <<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>In that case you better put UC Berkeley back up, because it is less than 90% in state:</p>
<p>For 2207:
6321 OOS/ 34953 total enrollment x 100% = 18% OOS</p>
<p>And it's similar for UCLA:</p>
<p>5687 OOS/38906 total x 100% 14.6% OOS</p>
<p>Coureur, your number includes graduate schools where it is much more inclusive.</p>
<p>coureur,</p>
<p>Please provide the International Student percentage (and OOS) for Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD and UT-Austin. </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>powergrid - Since UT is required by law that at least 90% of undergrads be from in-state, as well as the top 10% law limiting UT's ability to control admissions, less than 5% of UT undergrads are international. However, with ~37000 undergrads, this still translates into a large # of intl students (~1300 last year). </p>
<p>Overall (grad + undergrad), UT is about 8-9% international. The increased flexibility with grad school admissions adds another ~3000 foreign students.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Please provide the International Student percentage for Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD and UT-Austin.
[/quote]
UCB: 3.22% (770)
UCLA: 3.77% (958)
UCSD: 2.99% (640)
UT Austin: 3.65% (1352)</p>
<p>^ The %-wise is kind of misleading then since these schools have huge student bodies. The IS students of UT alone would almost equal to Williams. And I suppose those IS students have very, very strong stats too.</p>
<p>Can you post the numbers for OOS too? Thanks</p>
<p>UCB: 10% (~2390)
UCLA: 5% (~1270)
UCSD: 5% (~1070)
UT Austin: 4.4% (~1630)</p>
<p>I never lacked for international students to befriend at one of the Greene book public ivies.</p>
<p>what is a "public ivy"? none of those schools are anywhere as good as harvard or princeton. does "public ivy" mean best public schools</p>
<p>
[quote=]
what is a "public ivy"? none of those schools are anywhere as good as harvard or princeton. does "public ivy" mean best public schools
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You are correct that none of them are as good as Harvard or Princeton, since Berkeley is in fact stronger than both of them in terms of overall academic breadth and depth per the NRC. And let's see, Michigan gives them both a good challenge in this regard. And Wisconsin gets greater federal research $. And UT-Austin's library has been ranked higher than all the Ivies by quite a few sources in terms of significance. </p>
<p>So I assume you mean in terms of undergrad selectivity and size, really.</p>
<p>Here's an interesting ranking from a Berkeley publication that takes a composite of all the program rankings from USNWR. The publics, led by Berkeley of course, are represented well. Not saying it's the best way to do a ranking, but it is interesting nevertheless.</p>
<p>Total PhD Program Rank
1 University of California-Berkeley
2 Stanford
3 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
4 Harvard University
5 Princeton University
6 Yale University
7 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
8 Columbia University
9 University of Wisconsin-Madison
9 Cornell University
11 University of California-Los Angeles
12 University of Chicago
13 University of Texas-Austin
14 University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign
15 University of California-San Diego</p>
<p>Professional School Ranking
1 Stanford
2 University of California-Berkeley
3 Harvard University
4 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
5 Northwestern University
6 Columbia University
7 University of Texas-Austin
8 Duke University
9 New York University
10 University of Wisconsin-Madison
10 University of California-Los Angeles
12 University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign
13 University of Virginia
14 University of Southern California
15 Indiana University-Bloomington</p>
<p>source:
<a href="http://www.grad.berkeley.edu/publications/pdf/usnews_rankings_2006.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.grad.berkeley.edu/publications/pdf/usnews_rankings_2006.pdf</a></p>
<p>Graduate placement is an important metric... but how different are top privates from top publics in terms of acceptance to top ranked grad programs by students who WANT to apply to them (i.e., not just the rate of students going on to grad school). Obviously at large state schools like UT, the vast majority of graduates are going to have little interest in continuing beyond undergrad (a major reason for the for the strong 'vocational' undergrad programs in business, engineering, and film, for example). But how different are the acceptance rates for the students who choose to go on, and to top ranked grad programs? (I don't know how to accurately measure this). What about when it comes to students with stats more in line with the Ivy students at public honors programs. Are the acceptance rates of UT Plan II students to top grad schools really that different from the Ivies, for example?</p>
<p>
[quote]
what is a "public ivy"? none of those schools are anywhere as good as harvard or princeton. does "public ivy" mean best public schools
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Berkeley will blow Princeton away for grad studies. </p>
<p>For undergrad education, Princeton may be better than Berkeley.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley will blow Princeton away for grad studies.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Math is the subject I look at most closely among different colleges, and I would not stake anything of value on that proposition you have stated with regard to Berkeley's and Princeton's graduate programs in mathematics (which are plainly both very good). I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other graduate programs in which Princeton is in the very top ranks, possibly with Berkeley there as well.</p>
<p>UCB's breadth>>>>>Princeton. UCB probably has 50-60 top grad programs while Princeton may have 15-20.</p>
<p>warblersrule86,</p>
<p>Why is Berkeley's OOS students so small? Is there a restriction to accept more OOS students?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why is Berkeley's OOS students so small? Is there a restriction to accept more OOS students?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I can shed some light on this one.</p>
<p>For one, students know how difficult it is to get into Berkeley OOS. To get in as an in-stater is extremely difficult, so OOS is even more so. That alone discourages many students. In addition, if they do get in, it's going to be extremely expensive -- about the price of a private. Lastly, they know they won't get much financial aid. All this causes the applicant pool to be very self-selective.</p>
<p>But regardless, Berkeley still places an undefined limit on the # OOSers it accepts. It doesn't have a quota, but it is intentionally very selective of OOSers; that's why, in it's common data set, in-state residency is "very important" (as important as GPA, rigor of course load, and essays -- and more important than scores). Note, though, that not all UC campuses have a policy this strict.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I would not stake anything of value on that proposition you have stated with regard to Berkeley's and Princeton's graduate programs in mathematics (which are plainly both very good).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Aren't they both tied for first in math?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Math is the subject I look at most closely among different colleges, and I would not stake anything of value on that proposition you have stated with regard to Berkeley's and Princeton's graduate programs in mathematics (which are plainly both very good). I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other graduate programs in which Princeton is in the very top ranks, possibly with Berkeley there as well.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>For maths (and possibly for economics and physics as well), Berkeley and Princeton are neck-and-neck. Out of curiosity, can you name other programs where Princeton is ranked higher than Berkeley?</p>
<p>Here's the NRC ranking (which, despite its age, is still relevant, since schools change very little, as evidenced by the newest US News rankings):</p>
<p>
[quote]
Out of curiosity, can you name other programs where Princeton is ranked higher than Berkeley?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If a ranking list doesn't show ties, it's entirely unclear how much of a difference there really is between, say, second place and fourth place. A quick glance at the link kyledavid posted showed Princeton above Berkeley in physics (possibly irrelevant for the reason I just wrote), and some subjects not listed as ranked subjects. I doubt very much the overall statement "Berkeley will blow Princeton away for grad studies," because "blow away" implies a degree of difference between Princeton and Berkeley that probably doesn't exist at all, and certainly not to the disfavor of Princeton. Berkeley, of course, is substantially larger in enrollment than Princeton and might be expected to have more students in more programs at both the undergraduate and graduate level.</p>