<p>Ok Blossom,</p>
<p>Do you usually post under a different name? (hint: are you a dad?) </p>
<p>:) :) :) :) LOL. One of the better posts.</p>
<p>D is at 1 of CC's "top LAC's" (not Swarthmore). I'm amazed (not in a good way) by what she reports about the level of alcohol consumption there. Already had one kid transported by ambulance to hospital and many others taken to health services. And we're still in Sept.</p>
<p>Blossom:</p>
<p>PS. And the good thing about having your child participate in sports and joining a fraternity at a non-intellectual school is that you never have to be in denial. Anything goes! Deviant behavior is the norm.</p>
<p>Hey guys, I think this is a Swarthmore problem. Blossom, sokkermom, many of us get your points especially because we have kids who we know drink and might participate in deviant behaviour. But I think this is a Swarthmore problem and should have been discussed in another forum and not the Parents Forum. So peace......and let there be peace in the world...</p>
<p>Blossom, you may have forgotten to say that we are all shocked, (almost as shocked as the French police officer in Casablanca--remember the gambling scene?) that Swarthmore might not be a liquid-substance-free utopia.:)</p>
<p>I've nothing but good to say about Swarthmore...my husband and two of my grandparents are alumni. However, I agree with achat and others that the open alcohol policy could be setting the college up for trouble, particularly if, as Eddy notes, the Swarthmore Police (the "real" police) are stepping up their campus presence. In 1997 Williams had a policy that sounded very similar. The "real" cops--WPD--busted a party for underaged drinking, and brought charges against college officials--including the director of campus security--for the wink-wink nudge-nudge environment, just as they might if your kid was having a party in your rec room and you pretended not to know that there was drinking going on. Colleges are in an awfully tough position. It seemed a lot easier back when we were in school and the legal age was 18.
[quote]
Imagine a Williams social scene without wristbands or hand stamps. Imagine neither Security nor peer monitors preventing underage drinking. Imagine a drinking policy that left adherence to the Massachusetts state law mandating that no person under 21 years of age may consume alcohol entirely to a matter of individual choice. Imagine no rules requiring hosts to be of legal drinking age with TIPS (Training for Intervention Procedures) training not being required.</p>
<p>Such was the scene at Williams until the fall of 1997, before the Williamstown Police Department (WPD) raided an all-campus party, found underage drinking and subsequently brought charges against six College employees (Jean Thorndike, director of Campus Safety, Dave Boyer, associate director of Campus Safety and four other Security officers) as well as four students.</p>
<p>Prior to that incident, compliance with Massachusetts state law was the responsibility of the individual student, Boyer said earlier this week. If a student chose to break the law, they would suffer the consequences.</p>
<p>While various members of Security and administrators of the College echo Boyers sentiment, namely that the onus to comply with state law fell onto the individual student and not the institution, the WPD believed that the Colleges policy at the time not only enabled prevalent underage drinking but that the College also supported, or to borrow from the legal wording procured, alcohol for minors.</p>
<p>Youre not only condoning it. Youre sponsoring it, then-police chief J. Michael Kennedy told the Record in 1997. You cant drop doo-doo under my nose and expect me not to smell it.
[/quote]
<a href="http://www.williamsrecord.com/wr/?section=news&view=article&id=5425%5B/url%5D">http://www.williamsrecord.com/wr/?section=news&view=article&id=5425</a></p>
<p>The Williams Record article makes sense. Again, I haven't spent hours researching a problem like this and unlike Mini have no experience in adolescent drinking problems in a professional capacity; except for my child now being that age. My husband and I both don't drink and don't keep alcohol at home.....so all this is a first for us. We're certainly worried especially since the ML incident last year where the police gave chase to these kids at a Swarthmore party. ML is a dorm outside the campus and well within Swarthmore police's jurisdiction.</p>
<p>
[quote]
ML is a dorm outside the campus and well within Swarthmore police's jurisdiction.
[/quote]
Achat, the entire campus is within the local police department's jurisdiction! Dean Roseman at Williams noted that the perception that the campus had somehow "seceded from the union" was one of the misconceptions held by many students that she felt had to be cleared up.</p>
<p>yup..but if it happens on campus and police isn't around, they could hush it up. At ML, no such luck. My son told me he and 2 of his friends were scared out of their wits running to their dorm at the end of that party....</p>
<p>But I do get your point...</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think that this incident illustrates that no matter how hard we try, we can not categorize ANY institution as utopia, free of alcohol and drugs. Kids don't have to be frat rats or jocks or anything else to experiment with alcohol and other deviant behavior at this age.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I totally agree. This problem exists at most schools in the US and in Britain.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am sure that there is binge drinking at Harvard, but after two weeks there, my S has not reported one incidence of drunk behavior among his acquaintances
[/quote]
<br>
Marite, I suspect this is more to do with your son's perspective than actuality. I personally know a freshman at Harvard who was a heavy drinker even BEFORE he got there. Like drinking/possessing 6-pack in car in parking lot before attending high school classes. I doubt he has changed as he was like this at least as far back as 10th grade when I observed him drinking a beer on his front lawn also during the afternoon - in the presence at the time of his dad who thinks this is an old-boy kinda thing.</p>
<p>It's a serious problem in colleges and universities and alchohol and pot is only a part of it. Club drugs/prescription drugs and even harder stuff is available and is used. It's tragic.</p>
<p>Anyone who implies that his/her college is holier than others is unaware.</p>
<p>Agree Andi, every college deals with this differently. It was easier when we were 18, drinking was a more take it or leave it for many, more of a non issue but then statistics indicated that kids were starting to drink so early that more had drinking problems as they aged. My kids schools are opposite extremes on handling it, Pomona is quite liberal in their policy to assure saftey or students, they prohibit hard liquor and turn a blind eye to beer if it is not consummed in your hall or campus, must be behind closed doors. They do a lot of teaching and educating and train students to watch out for each other. My D's school writes kids up, comes in your room with huge fines and consequences. Most do not drink on campus as the first fine is 500 and you are assigned to alcohol couseling, whew! But then students drink on the beach and then do they drive? Pomona is becoming stricter this year and I think every college evaluates and reevaluates it's policy. My friends S is at Redlands and they have had more alcohol poisonings this year then in their history and are cracking down there.</p>
<p>As parents, we need to be realistic. As much as we would like to believe otherwise, there is probably a better than even chance that our students will begin drinking when on their own in college even if they have been abstainers during high school.</p>
<p>Therefore the issue in my mind is encouraging them to partake responsibly. We gave our son the following guidelines to try and follow. First, NEVER drink and drive or be a rider in a car with a driver who has been drinking. Second, if you are drinking as you would any other beverage you are okay. Few people consume Coke after Coke, running through a six pack an hour so dont do it with beer. Third, trust yourself, don't buckle under peer pressure to over indulge. You can carry that almost empty beer glass around for a long time baby. And fourth, drinking alone is a warning sign of a potential problem. And by this I dont mean a chilly cool after a mean game of ultimate frisbee.</p>
<p>Let's be honest. Our children are now adults, and young adults to boot. As such they are going to engage in behavior that we may not approve of. Many are going to drink, be sexually active and perhaps engage in other risky behavior. It comes with the territory. Think back when you were that age. Not many of us were tea tottlers or virgins when we married. Its even more unreasonable to think that they will be any different given the messages they have been bombarded with since they were preteens.</p>
<p>I am not suggesting that drinking does not happen at Harvard; but it need not affect the overall campus culture. As well, I think instances of drunken behavior are probably associated with specific events. In the case of Harvard, I am not surprised that by Thanksgiving, there were many students who had to be taken to the infirmary. Both the Crimson and the Yale Daily News had been full of articles bemoaning the strict alcohol policies for weeks before The Game; for their part, the Boston police proclaimed their disgust with the drinking and associated behavior that took place at The Game. But The Game is an unusual event, and the statistics quoted cannot be extrapolated to the rest of the year. That is all that I was trying to suggest. The Game is being held in Cambridge again this year, so I expect similar statistics unless there is a real crackdown by both Harvard and the Boston police. It will be interesting to see whether the statistics go down when The Game is played in New Haven.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, I agree with achat and others that the open alcohol policy could be setting the college up for trouble, particularly if, as Eddy notes, the Swarthmore Police (the "real" police) are stepping up their campus presence.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I've read every article in the school newspaper back to 1999 produced by a search for the word "alcohol", and I see no evidence that the police are stepping up their campus presence. To the contrary, I see a consistent level of visible police presence, on campus, over that period of time. What I do see is that students from each of those years believing that the police presence has "stepped up" from "a few years ago".</p>
<p>The Swarthmore police, pretty much as a matter or routine,park a cruiser and patrol officer adjacent to venues for campus parties on weekends and have done so for all of the period of time covered by the Phoenix archives. Those cruisers are there as a visible deterent. Leave a party and walk back to your dorm like a normal adult, no problem. Leave a party falling down drunk, shouting at your girlfriend, or otherwise behaving like Otis the town drunk, and you will most likely get arrested. There is not a student on campus who is not aware of this deterrent.</p>
<p>When asked about the routine police presence on campus outside of party venues, the administration says they welcome the protection of the local police and that students should know that they they are subject to arrest for public drunkenness just like any other citizen of Pennsylvania and behave accordingly. Obviously, nobody knows what is said in the private meetings between the college administration and the chief of police. However, my hunch is that the college encourages the visible police presence outside of party venues and that this visible presence is an integral part of a behavior-driven alcohol policy. </p>
<p>To the extent that the students are concerned about leaving a party with a police cruiser parked out front, I say, "Good!". I have not read of a single arrest when the student didn't well and truly deserve to be arrested, when they didn't go out of their way to get themselves arrested. You or I would have been arrested in a NY minute for the same stupid behavior leaving a bar. Part of responsible adult drinking is to know your limits so that you don't behave in ways that place you in jeopardy of arrest. One of the ways to quickly learn that is to walk by a police cruiser on the way home from a party. Why should it be any different on a college campus?</p>
<p>Marite:</p>
<p>I have never seen a reference to the binge drinking rates at Harvard. However, being an urban campus with a very high percentage of non-white students, it is likely that the binge drinking rate at Harvard tends towards the lower/moderate end of the national scale.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why should it be any different on a college campus?
[/quote]
Well, it is different, apparently. Off campus, police wouldn't be looking the other way and arresting underage drinkers only if they were unruly. If they had evidence of underage drinking, they'd arrest the kids, and hold the procurers responsible, whether they were college officials or "cool" parents who allow underage drinking parties in their homes. I don't think anyone's suggesting that the Swarthmore Police Dept. should begin a crackdown. Only that they could, and that it could go higher than just the students involved.</p>
<p>ID there was a wild stampede and young freshman kids were running to their dorms at the party that I know about. These kids are not perfect. I am sure you don't worry because your daughter does not drink....</p>
<p>Interesteddad:</p>
<p>I have not seen a reference to binge drinking rates, either. I do know that binge drinking was seen as a big factor in sexual assaults, the subject of a report a few years ago. Years ago, the Crimson was filled with articles about binge drinking and general rowdiness at the finals clubs, but these articles seem to have died out. Also, since it is possible for students to spend their entire 4 years at Harvard without ever being part of the finals clubs, their influence on campus culture may be rather limited. Anyway, so far so good, but it's only been a couple of weeks :)</p>
<p>Achat:</p>
<p>I assume that you are referring to the ML Halloween Party last year? </p>
<p>That event, every year, like clockwork, produces the majority of Swarthmore's annual alcohol incidents. Last year, two of the three hospital transports and three of the four (I think), alcohol citations. Same basic scenario the year before and the year before that and the year before that -- all triggered by a few students doing something really stupid.</p>
<p>Here's what the dean on duty, Martin Werner, had to say in the Phoenix following the party:</p>
<p>[The incident] was unfortunate from a social standpoint, but its not necessarily wrong that the police gave everybody a scare, either. I dont mind Swarthmore students being confronted with the realities of living in American society, and part of that is that you have to be responsible for your actions...</p>
<p>BTW, I have not said that I "don't worry" nor that my D doesn't attend parties and drink.</p>