<p>I guess Tagart is a braggart. I'm not trying to boast about the 2 people I know who went to HYPS. I know others, one kid who was accepted into 5 Ivies and is now attending Harvard, but this isn't a "I know smarter people than you" contest. My point, which I though was pretty simple to grasp, is that people that who seemed to have everything going against them, people who weren't minorities, weren't legacies, and were possibly stereotyped as rich b/c they attend a private school, were still accepted w/not just sub 2300 scores, but w/sub 2200 scores.</p>
<p>Here are soem interesting stats from the College Board that show that not all 2300 scorers go to HYPS. Let's assume that for the following schools, students in the top 25% scored 2300 plus (which is probably true based on the Old SAT scores). And if this is true, these people could be eliminated from the HYPS student bodies.</p>
<p>Here are 6 of the top, non-Ivy, really high SAT schools:</p>
<p>MIT (996 Freshmen)
25% scored 1570 or above on the SAT</p>
<h1>of 2300 scorers eliminated from HYPS ~ 249</h1>
<p>Caltech (234 Freshmen)
25% scored 1580 or above on the SAT</p>
<h1>of 2300 scorers eliminated from HYPS ~ 58</h1>
<p>University of Chicago (1203 Freshmen)
25% scored 1540 or above on the SAT</p>
<h1>of 2300 scorers eliminated from HYPS ~ 300</h1>
<p>Washington University - St. Louis (1388 Freshmen)
25% scored 1520 or above on the SAT</p>
<h1>of 2300 scorers eliminated from HYPS ~ 347</h1>
<p>Pomona College (382 Freshmen)
25% scored 1530 or above on the SAT</p>
<h1>of 2300 scorers eliminated from HYPS ~ 95</h1>
<p>Duke University (1724 Freshmen)
25% scored 1550 or above on the SAT</p>
<h1>of 2300 scorers eliminated from HYPS ~ 431</h1>
<p>Total # of 2300 scorers not attending HYPS ~ 1480
This total is just from 6 schools. </p>
<p>There are other top schools that I didn't include w/2300 scorers (UC Berkeley, Georgetown, Rice, Harvey Mudd, Davidson, Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, NYU, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, the other Ivies, just to name a few). If these schools were included, I'm sure we'd find that there would be a great amount of 2300 people, people who are NOT attending HYPS.</p>
<p>taggart stated earlier: "I could be completely wrong."</p>
<p>Yes, YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG!!!</p>
<p>Consider the number of 2300+ people that are rejected from the Ivies. Heck, about 1/3 of the kids with 2400s that apply to Harvard are rejected. Do you really think that colleges would pick an uninteresting person with the higher SAT score (say 2300) over an interesting person who contributes in the classroom and outside of it with perhaps a 2250?</p>
<p>Who said you needed a national award to get into HYPS if you didn't have at least a 2300? And with all due respect, why would Harvard want a girl that won the national spelling bee? Where is that talent going to take you? OMG SHE CAN MEMORIZE THE DICTIONARY AND SPELL WORDS!!!!! </p>
<p>fyi, anyone who has taken the most basic german and has decent spelling skills can spell "ursprache" since in german if you sound out the word, you can usually spell it</p>
<p>As princedog stated, there is no "perfect score." The fact is, "average joe" does NOT get into Harvard regardless of how high his SAT scores are. If you don't have some accomplishment/essay/rec/whatever which makes the difference between a 2200 and a 2300 look insignificant, then you won't be admitted.</p>
<p>Period.</p>
<p>-yawn-</p>
<p>You see, I love how some people completely missed my point.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that people who get these amazing scores all go to Ivies. I'm giving you a range where people have a chance in getting in -- based on SAT scores, which constitutes the point of this entire thread altogether. Of course I realize other factors come into play -- some considerable factors too. I have never denied that.</p>
<p>As for me being a braggart, perhaps, but only when I have achieved something I feel is worth talking about. I don't really believe in modesty being a great and honorable virtue, no -- I'll admit that outright.</p>
<p>Aznoverachiever, Harvard might want a girl who knows how to spell because the dedication she showed IN memorizing those words is considerable. It sets hear apart from the rest of those people who don't memorize words. If everyone could have that motivation, then they could've won that award, but no, most people don't care enough. It's an impressive item on her resume. They won't go "OMG SHE CAN MEMORIZE THE DICTIONARY AND SPELL WORDS!!!!!" but they will go "OMG SHE DID MEMORIZE THE DICTIONARY AND CAN SPELL WORDS!!!!!"</p>
<p>Perplexitudinous, I know what you mean. I just think that even on top of that, the SAT standards are a bit higher.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm not saying that people who get these amazing scores all go to Ivies. I'm giving you a range where people have a chance in getting in -- based on SAT scores, which constitutes the point of this entire thread altogether. Of course I realize other factors come into play -- some considerable factors too. I have never denied that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah but I think you're putting way too much emphasis on the importance of an almost perfect SAT score. A 2300 is about 770+ in each section as an average. The median scores for these schools aren't that high...they are high certainly, but more in the 2200 range it seems. </p>
<p>I don't really think you need a 2300 to "have a chance at getting in". From what I've seen, the difference between 2200 and 2300 isn't really that important from these schools' perspectives. They can take any kid they want. And in the end it seems like they take a range of scores from around 2200-2400, with the common thread being some sort of distinguishing factor. At some point the SAT score is just not that important that they'll look at it and say "wow what an idiot they got a 2200, let's not even read this" when the kid has some outstanding EC. Conversely they won't say "wow a 2400, automatic admit" when the kid has lackluster ECs. Having a 2200 won't knock you out of the running in itself, if your grades, courses, and ECs place you competitively within the admissions pool. Most people, no matter what the SAT numbers are, will get rejected from these schools because they just don't have that special something. Just connecting in some way across the application with the admissions officer can do it, but when they're taking 9% you have to do something and I don't think the difference between a 2200 and a 2300 is going to be that something.</p>
<p>2200+ would have you be a really good applicant with great chances.</p>
<p>2300 and 2200 the difference is almost negligible.</p>
<p>Okay. I can see your point, Princedog.</p>
<p>By the way, what code does this forum accept? BB code?</p>
<p>It seems that people are taking my side on this issue, that a 2300 is not needed for HYPS. There were fewer than 5000 people in the whole country who got scores this high. 5000 people would be the equivalent of a student body of about 2 high schools. Taggart, do you really believe that these people could fill 4 colleges (keeping in mind, that many of them don't even go to these schools, as I showed in my last post)? You don't need a 2300 to have "a chance" at the Ivies. It definately. However, many HYPS students score below 2200 (not just legacies or URMs either), some even below 2100 (25% do actually). 2300 would be near the top 25% of their score ranges. To say that you'd need a 2300 for HYPS would be like saying you'd need to be in the top 1/4 of your High School class to graduate. Obviously, this is not true.
I hate to sound redundant, but there is no way a 2300 is needed for HYPS, it is just too rare.</p>
<p>(By the way, modesty is a very good quality in my opinion. I based one of my college app. essays on it. Sure, it takes a great effort to get a great score, but it takes an even greater person not to boast about it).</p>
<p>Amen to that.
You can bet that one's character outranks any SAT score at my house....and my definition of character would include modesty.</p>
<p>...you know I really don't accept the validity of your argument. I can sum up my opinion in one sentence: The Ivies want the top students, and on the SAT, the top students score 2300+ (or 2200+, as Princedog argues).</p>
<p>As for statistics, I already did my share of the math...and came up with the opposite answer.</p>
<p>((I'm also not overly concerned about how egotistical a person others perceive me to be online -- most of the time I frankly don't see the point to modesty. However, I empathized my score because someone else brought it up. I hate it when people start moralizing on me and criticizing my character when they have absolutely no right to it. Read some Rand if you want to have an idea of my outlook on life, though I don't see why you would. =P))</p>
<p>Princedog has swayed my opinion somewhat. You haven't.</p>
<p>Taggart, perhaps you opinion is biased b/c you are one of the 2300 scorers (Congrats on the accomplishment. Even though we have our differences, it is still right to give credit where credit is due :)). I think that it might be possible that you are worried that maybe someone who has a sub 2200 but has better ECs and a better GPA just might take your Ivy league seat. So, you just tell yourself "well, only people w/2300s have a chance at HYPS, so I don't have to worry." I'm not saying this is the truth, it is just a suggestion.</p>
<p>Here's another suggestion. Maybe if you didn't brag so much or post little "I'm sticking-out-my-tongue" faces to other people, they might not perceive you as such as such as narcissistic, callous person. If you want people to not be so critical, you should try to be more personable. The valedictorian of my school is a 2300 scorer and he is one of the most modest people I know. There is no reason why you can't be the same.</p>
<p>My little smilies are there for the sake of self-mockery and to point out my sarcasm, as well as to lighten up the situation. I thought that'd be evident and a generally accepted practice on webforums. I'd like to assure you that my GPA and extracurriculars are both quite healthy and that I do not have this sort of worrying complex. However, I thank you for the congratulations.</p>
<p>As I've stressed before, I don't see the point in engaging in modesty. It takes quite a lot for me to live up to my own standards -- winning little things don't elicit much response at all -- so when I do "brag" it's something I feel is deserved. I have no wish to be the same as your school's valedictorian just as I have no wish to be popular on this site. Almost ironically, I'm one of the better liked people in my school, acting as an officer in several clubs which I've gotten through club elections. I'm generally a nice person, albeit extremely opinionated. I'll apologize now if I've thrown any personal attacks into the ring -- when I debate it's often accompanied by sarcasm and the like, which the judges seem to like.</p>
<p>As an alter-note -- This Firefox auto-spellcheck is pretty freaking sweet.</p>
<p>I appreciate the fact that you gave an apology, even though I really didn't ask for one. I just think that you and I have different perspectives on the importance of modesty. You feel that if you have accomplished great things, you have the right to brag about them. Your acomplishments seem quite extraordinary, especially the 2360 SAT, and are things that I feel warrant praise. However, I also feel that one should be seen, not heard. Admiration should come from others noticing you w/out you trying to garner their affection with your boasting. I'm not trying to change your opinion about life. I see that as hard as I have tried, I have failed to alter to your position concerning the original topic of this post. I'm just speaking for the other side that receives the boasting, the sub 2300 people to which a score that high is only a dream (I myself scored "only" a 2030). We don't like to be belittled and when people as intelligent as yourself laud your outstanding achievements, it makes us feel a bit "dumb." :(</p>
<p>Hepstar, you are my hero</p>
<p>i completely agree with you about not needing a 2300+ score for HYPS and on the importance of modesty....</p>
<p>"I also feel that one should be seen, not heard. Admiration should come from others noticing you w/out you trying to garner their affection with your boasting." </p>
<p>I think those are the true leaders; people who are so awesome that others notice how great they are, people who know that they are great inside but do not need to tell everyone no matter how large the acheivement is...</p>
<p>just wondering, Taggart, do you ever talk to that Kerry Close girl? What's her take on modesty?</p>
<p>Hepstar, I agree with you. When it comes to the SAT, there really isn't much a difference between a 770 and a 730 . . . maybe three more questions wrong, something around there, and straight 770s would give you a 2310, while straight 730s would give you a 2190. I think that when adcoms sit down and review applications, frankly, they get quite sick of all their applicants. Not many people with scores below 2000, or even 2100, apply, therefore the scores would start to seem homogenous. I'm not saying that scoring high-ER doesn't matter, but just SAT scores put you in the maybe pile. I'd say, 2200 shows that you're proficient and "good enough" for Ivies. But GPA, SAT, rank, AP - all this is more of a prerequisite than a determinant. And a 2200+ would put you in the running. </p>
<p>I know we're not citing personal stories of people who have made it to HYPSM with sub-2300, but I do know plenty. My good friend went to Harvard with a 2240, no hook, no URM, nothing. </p>
<p>SAT scores are important, but only up to a point.</p>
<p>OH NO!! I only have a 2290! How will I get into an Ivy?!?</p>
<p>by the way, my white friend who was not a legacy got into Princeton with a 2000. He just got a really, really good recommendation. So obviously you don't NEED a 2300 or higher to get into an Ivy.</p>
<p>Harvard rejected him though...</p>
<p>p.s. He was an unbelievably amazing person, so I guess it wasn't just the recommendation. My point still stands that you don't need a 2300.</p>
<p>boijia, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you about the homogienity (sp) of SAT scores. Saying that 800=700 is like saying 700=600 - it's clearly not true. 770=730 is somewhat more reasonable but IMHO far-fetched - particularly if the comparison is between straight 770s and straight 730s.</p>
<p>From far away (ie watching from Earth), stars in other galaxies appear to be so densely packed that you might think they ought to collide often - yet they rarely do. I think that getting into a top college is similar: there's no doubt that 770 is a lot better than 730; however, the degree of accomplishment required to make it into HYPS makes the difference between 770 and 730 <em>seem</em> small in many (but not all) cases.</p>
<p>Take for example typical median scores for the entering class at Yale a few years back which under the old scale w/b around 750 verbal and 740 math - or a combined 1490 </p>
<p>However - here's the problem, that 1490 which is based on an entering class of about 1300 students also is including approximately 200 to 300 URM scores - which on an aggregate basis are invariably lower - usually somewhere between 50 to 200 points lower on average</p>
<p>When you factor this in, this means the non-URM applicant with the 1490 will need to score probably in the 1520 to 1540 range just to hit the median</p>
<p>General rule today is non-URM applicants will need a 2250 plus at these top schools and even then the odds are low -particularly if they are applying from an overrpresented geographic area - which for example generally includes the entire northeast part of the United States</p>
<p>^ Not too far away from my guess.</p>
<p>Kerry Close? I don't know her too well -- she's a freshman, I'm a junior. I've heard people say that she was really nice, but generally, people say the same about me, so I don't know if that has any valid bearing.</p>
<p>Why do you people keep taking other circumstances and etc. from what I've already stated? I've already said that if your performance in other fields were extraordinary, ex - glowing recommendation letter, awards. I have already stressed the importance of good GPA and Ecs, and have, under multiple instances, explained that of course, SAT grades are not the only determining factor. However, it is a factor nonetheless.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Princedog caused me to accept his/her argument. 2200+</p>
<p>Again, we're not discussing modesty here. If you wish to do so, go start another thread. I'll be sure to find it. I've already stated my personal opinion on the matter and if anyone wishes to make unsupported personal attacks, go on and do so there. You don't know who I am so as far as I'm concerned, you have absolutely no right to say what a horrible person I am. We can discuss ideas, ideals, and opinions.</p>
<p>And Hepstar, thank you for being a reasonable human being. I can empathize with your perspective.</p>