<p>what do you all think would be a score that would be in the acceptable range for an elite school like HYPS....</p>
<p>2100? 2220?</p>
<p>thanks</p>
<p>If you're not in a minority and don't have any affiliation with the school...</p>
<p>...I'd guess 2300+</p>
<p>But that's a personal guess. I could be completely wrong.</p>
<p>You people are nuts. You really think that everyone accepted to HYP has a 2300+ SAT. Even if you aren't a URM or a legacy, you don't need a score like this. SAT's aren't everything. People always seem to make such a big deal about what SAT score you need to get into an Ivy. There are other factors like GPA and EC's. Do you really think that schools as competitive as HYP would rely solely on SAT? I'm not trying to say that a person w/a 1700 can start packing their bags for Harvard. I'm just saying that you don't need a 2300 to get in to HYP. Once you start getting past 2100, other factors take over.</p>
<p>From your post, you'd think I would've posted something along the lines of "0mg0z0rz joo n33dz 4 2400 p3rf3c7 sc0re."</p>
<p>Nowhere did I say that the SAT was the only score that they'd look at. I'm quite well aware that these Ivies also need good GPA, Extracurricular Activities, and a good essay. Of course you don't "have" to have a 2300+ to get into Harvard -- I'm sure there are exceptions -- however, exceptions are exactly what they are. Without any outstanding awards going for a person (outstanding as in National, like that Kerry Close girl at my school and her getting #1 in the Spelling Bee), one needs SAT scores on top of grades and activities. I'm completely sick of unrealistic estimates.</p>
<p>To Quote:</p>
<p>"venkater
Member</p>
<p>Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 629</p>
<p>You need a 2000+ to even consider applying to a top college (I'm talking Ivy and others of that calibur) and a 2150 to be in range. 2250 is good enough for most Ivys and top schools except HYPSMC. 2300 is needed for those, and 2350 would be recomended. These scores are for non URM, unhooked, non legacy candidates. For your averate joe, you need a 2300 (maybe even a 2350) to have a legit shot at Harvard. For the other Ivys and top of hte top schools, a 2250 would be sufficient. A 2100 gets you in range, but range is not good enough considering the type of people top schools take with belloe 2100 SAT. It is possible to get into Harvard witha 1700 if you are a Hispanic girl who is interested in engineering and nationally ranked in something."</p>
<p>Just so you know, there were 2 kids from my school last year who were excepted into the Ivies (one Harvard and One Princeton) w/sub 2200 scores (not URMs or legacies either). If you don't believe me, here are some statistics that show that a 2300 isn't needed for HYPS:</p>
<p>1.) Total # of 2300+ SAT scores for 2006: 4865</p>
<p>2.) HYPS have about 1600 students in their Freshman classes. So 1600 X 4 = 6400 students. This is already more seats than the amount of 2300 scores. </p>
<p>3.) There are also other factors. This doesn't count the people who are accepted but decide to go to other schools. There are people who turn down seats at Ivies either to go to other top schools (MIT, University of Chicago, Amherst, etc.) or b/c the tuiton is too high.</p>
<p>4.) Middle 50% SAT range for Harvard (out of 1600): 1400 - 1580
So the new SAT range would be about 2100 - 2370. This means that 1 out of every 4 kids at Harvard scored BELOW 2100. 2300 would be towards the upper-end of the range and 2250, the score that you said wasn't good enough is ABOVE AVERAGE at Harvard. </p>
<p>Conclusion: You don't need a 2300 to get into HYPS!!!</p>
<p>chill you guys chill</p>
<p>I backed my opinion up w/factual information and actual statistics from the College Board website. Taggart is just citing the opinion of another CC member that is similar to her own. Her argument has no basis in any kind of facts or statistics. The only "proof" she has is some hypothetical story about poor, no-hook, no-EC, non-minority Joe who gets rejected from HYPS w/a 2350.</p>
<p>I'm sure a 2300 would help but that is a little high. As someone pointed out, there aren't even that many people who score that high. After 2150 or so, that's probably where the "X" factor takes over. People with 2400s and great grades get rejected from these schools. Basically it's just sort of luck and you have to click with the admissions people. There are like 100 or 200 or so who are clear admits because they've done something completely outstanding or because they're from an influential background, or a really really exceptional athlete (there's an internationally ranked - possibly Olympic bound - gymnast at Brown. I'm sure she was a clear admit. She is WAY out of their gymnastics team's recruiting league even aside from her other factors). After that, the rest of the kids that get in probably just come across really well somehow, even without 2300s. Or they have a 2300 and get rejected. I think the score to "have a chance" is at least 100 pts or so lower than that. And after that, it's still only a chance. Also I mean, I got a 100 pts lower on the Oct SAT from the May. It's kind of stupid that one person can fluctuate that much in the absence of other factors (I wasn't sick or anything). They aren't going to put so much weight on one day of testing that you have to do perfectly or nearly perfectly at it. If their cutoff was so harsh they'd miss out on a lot of candidates they actually want.</p>
<p>Thank you Princedog for seeing my point, a point that many people on CC don't seem to understand. One does not need a 2300 for HYPS, nor will you be automatically accepted if you have it.</p>
<p>Hepstar, your logic is off. </p>
<p>"1.) Total # of 2300+ SAT scores for 2006: 4865"</p>
<p>This does not take into consideration the kids who mix and match scores from different test dates to form a 2300+ composite. By that logic, there are way more than just 4865 kids with 2300+ scores.</p>
<p>I'd hardly call it way more. We'll add in the 2290, 2280 and 2270 scorers to account for this. Including these scorers, there are 7780 people and yes, there are rougly 6400 seats at HYPS. However, many of these scorers chose to go to other top schools. MIT, Caltech, University of Chicago, Amherst, Duke, Harvey Mudd, the other Ivies, they all have 2300 scorers. </p>
<p>Also, HYPS may be too expensive for some people. They are not exactly cheap. If someone who gets a 2300 is accepted to Princeton but Rutgers gives him/her a free ride, that person might just be inclined to take the free ride. HYPS are not the only destinations for 2300 people. If even half of them go there, which I'm pretty sure is not true, that's 3890 people for about 6400 seats. Therefore, 2300 is not needed.</p>
<p>(If anyone is questioning where my numbers are coming from, they're straight off the College Board's percentile chart for 2006 college bound seniors).</p>
<p>My lord. I love how you completely ignore the whole "legacies and minorities" that constituted the entire other argument altogether.</p>
<p>"Harvard admits 40% of legacy applicants compared with 11% of applicants overall. Amherst admits 50%. An average of 21-24% of students in each year at Notre Dame are the offspring of alumni. When it comes to the children of particularly rich donors, the bending-over-backwards reaches astonishing levels. Harvard even has something called a “Z” list—a list of applicants who are given a place after a year's deferment to catch up—that is dominated by the children of rich alumni."</p>
<p>"The number of minority students accepted by Yale—36 percent of the 2,032 students who were accepted for the class of 2004—ensures that the University will remain one of the most diverse schools in the Ivy League. The University of Pennsylvania has the largest Ivy minority population at 38 percent, followed by Yale, and Harvard with 34 percent. Princeton is the least diverse school with 27 percent."</p>
<p>--</p>
<p>So let's see...</p>
<p>1.) Total # of 2300+ SAT scores for 2006: 4865</p>
<p>2.) HYPS have about 1600 students in their Freshman classes. So 1600 X 4 = 6400 students.</p>
<p>3) According to that first article, we'll base it off of Notre Dame's statistics, but let's make it lower because Notre Dame has the highest legacy percentage, just for kicks and giggles. 10%.</p>
<p>4) Again, let's use a lower percentage -- 20%. Princeton's the least diverse school with 27% but we'll still assume that the minorities did well.</p>
<p>3) 6400 X (1.00 - (0.10 + 0.20)) = 4480</p>
<p>Omgosh! 4480 < 4865</p>
<p>Are we seeing that even people WITH 2300+ scores are rejected?</p>
<p>See? I can do math too.</p>
<p>Taggart,</p>
<p>remember, the minority percentages that you cited also includes asians who aren't considered urm's for admission, but most universities include in their percentage of minorities</p>
<p>I didn't wish to go into that much detail in my so-called analysis. However, I would like to stress that I did use less than the "bottom" percentages in my number to compensate for these generalities, and still came up with a number to support my argument.</p>
<p>Taggart, obviously you didn't read my last post stating very clearly that some people w/2300s go to OTHER schools besides HYPS. In your agrument, you're assuming that EVERY person w/a 2300 goes to these schools. You can't deny this b/c your logic is, and I quote "Omgosh! 4480 < 4865." Not all 4865 people w/2300 went to these schools, I've been trying to say this the entire time!!! </p>
<p>Another flaw in your agrument about minorities that was already mentioned by prefect is that the minority population includes Asians who typically score higher than any other racial group. You also, out of nowhere, decided to include the other Ivies. I thought we were just talking about HYPS. In this case, there are even more open seats which means that there is even less of a need for a 2300.</p>
<p>I'm not denying that being a legacy or a URM doesn't help. I'm also not denying that people w/2300s get rejected from HYPS. However, 2300s are so incredibly rare, there is no way that a score like it is needed for HYPS. Once you get past 2100, other factors take over. People whith 2300s who get rejected very often are rejected b/c they have low GPAs or poor ECs. As I said before, I know 2 people w/sub 2200 scores, non-legacy, non-URM, middle-class kids from a private school who were accepted into the Ivies.</p>
<p>"You also, out of nowhere, decided to include the other Ivies. I thought we were just talking about HYPS."</p>
<p>We are. The fact that I used statistics from non-HYPS doesn't change that. I was using comparable percentages. I don't see what's so wrong.</p>
<p>"However, 2300s are so incredibly rare, there is no way that a score like it is needed for HYPS."</p>
<p>HYPS are also the top schools in the country. There is no way that they'd just accept anybody.</p>
<p>"As I said before, I know 2 people w/sub 2200 scores, non-legacy, non-URM, middle-class kids from a private school who were accepted into the Ivies."</p>
<p>That's nice. I know one guy with a 2300+ going to Stanford, 3 girls with 2200+ going to Johns Hopkins, and one guy with 2300+ going to Columbia -- all of them from my school. <a href="http://www.hths.mcvsd.org%5B/url%5D">http://www.hths.mcvsd.org</a> They are all non-legacy, non-URM, middle-class. Your point is?</p>
<p>And you obviously ignored my entire argument.</p>
<p>If you think that you need a 2300 to get into the ivies then don't apply. It saves room for people like me with "just decent" sat scores and realistic expectations :D</p>
<p>Oh, I'm applying. =P I'm little Miss 2360. Asian. Middle-class.</p>
<p>So you see exactly why this topic interests me so much.</p>
<p>So basically the point everyone is making is that there is no "perfect enough" score, and that people with 2200s get into HYP. Basically no one gets into HYP and you really have to have done something favorable beyond your SAT scores. Therefore, someone with a 2300 and nothing favorable is in a worse position than a 2100 with something favorable. It's not even worth it to try and define a "perfect enough" score.</p>
<p>No, silly.</p>
<p>You just have to be the most perfect student you can be with great SAT scores AND great academics/ec's.</p>