The Quality of a USNA Education

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
1

<p>Preface: This is a decision that I might have to make later, but it's really bugging me. This is all hypothetical, as I have not even applied to theses colleges yet.</p>

<p>US News shows a peer review score of 3.9 for USNA and a 3.7 for UMCP. Several people at my school have received full ride scholarships to UMCP with less credentials than I have, so I have a good chance of getting the same scholarship.</p>

<p>While I do want to serve and I do feel I fit into the academy lifestyle, it would be illogical for me to devote 5 years of my life when I could be in grad school to the military if there is no significant benefit. To me, it seems that the Academy has so much of a better program simply because classes are so much smaller than those at UMCP, and are all taught by actual devoted professors, not TAs.</p>

<p>So, what it really boils down to is how accurate is the US News report? Are they actually taking into account the class size and how open the professors make themselves?</p>

<p>I just want to be 100% sure that the Academy is superior to UMCP befor plebe summer, if I'm lucky enough to receive a LOA.</p>

2

<p>I think that you will receive a high-quality education in direct proportion to the amount of work you do.</p>

<p>You can get a top-notch education from Anywhere State U, if you bust out academically, seek out advanced coursework and the best classes/profs on campus. You can slide through USNA (or MIT, or Yale) with the minimum required work and GPA - it's been done countless times.</p>

<p>US News and World Report isn't the "gold standard" with respect to college rankings. I would take their recs with a grain of salt, there are many critiques of their methods available online if you Google them.</p>

<p>UCMP (U of MD - College Park) will have many opportunities for you to do community service, independent research, etc. that USNA may not offer. </p>

<p>On the other hand, USNA will offer you smaller classes, direct interaction with professors, and leadership opportunities that you wouldn't otherwise have. </p>

<p>I don't know what your planned field of study is - that may also have a factor in your decision.</p>

<p>My son, who is a 3/C at USNA, could have attended UVA on a full ride. His best friend, who was virtually identical in GPA, SATs, sports, etc. chose UVA. They are both working their tails off, and they are both getting a great education.... in the end it came down to the military commitment for my son's friend, which he had some doubts about.</p>

<p>... oh, and by your 3rd and 4th year at UMCP, your class sizes will be much smaller, as you'll be taking higher-level courses in your major. And not all T.A.s are worthless; I was one, once, a zillion years ago in grad school. :) I wouldn't assume that all full tenured profs are "devoted" to teaching -</p>

3

<p>Class sizes are going to be one of my major considerations if I get accepted to USNA from Norwich. The latter only accepts 8 chemistry students a year (my major) so by junior and senior year it's essentially one-on-one with a professor (and they don't have TA's).</p>

<p>I've heard from some that USNA classes are small, but I've also heard that they can run 25-30. So, I'd also be glad if a current student could elaborate on how large classes actually are.</p>

4

<p>"While I do want to serve and I do feel I fit into the academy lifestyle, it would be illogical for me to devote 5 years of my life when I could be in grad school to the military if there is no significant benefit."</p>

<p>PH: I'm not sure that I even know how to read this post- but I will say that you are comparing the wrong things here. While the Service Academy may compare to the Ivy League in terms of the caliber of its applicants - what should be driving you is quite frankly a desire to serve as an officer in the military. What's the benefit?... The preparation that you will receive to become a professional officer. Will you get a great education in a focused environment with small classes and faculty who teach as opposed to delegate teaching to TAs? Yes. But fundamentally- you need to be looking at this from the persective of "Do I want to be a professional soldier (or sailor etc...)"? It is really the only reason these schools exist and if you are going to them for any reason other than that - you probably are making a poor choice.</p>

5

<p>I would be choosing the Academy because of the challenge in addition to the honor, integrity, and leadership qualities that it focuses on. I would be proud to serve and I think it would be an awesome experience to be in the Navy. After NASS I have a lot of respect for the military.</p>

<p>However, if I received a full ride to UMCP, I would be taking a more direct route to where I am ultimately going to end up. It's such a hard choice to make at this point in my life, would I want to take a more direct route or a more honorable and adventurous route?</p>

<p>It's such a hard decision for me to make that I'm going to the more obvious thing to base my choice upon: quality of education, grad schools, how the college looks on your resume in the job market, etc.</p>

<p>Simayan: At summer seminar they told us 24 was the largest classes get, and that they rarely get that large.</p>

6

<p>Unless your number one priority is to lead America's sons and daughters in combat then the academy is not for you. Sure the academy is a great stepping stone if you choose to get out of the military after your comittment, however while you are and officer, you do not come first. It is not about you and your future dreams but instead about how am I taking care of my people. If in any way you view the military comittment as a speed bump to your future then I would strongly recommend against the academy.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
However, if I received a full ride to UMCP, I would be taking a more direct route to where I am ultimately going to end up. It's such a hard choice to make at this point in my life, would I want to take a more direct route or a more honorable and adventurous route?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
It's such a hard decision for me to make that I'm going to the more obvious thing to base my choice upon: quality of education, grad schools, how the college looks on your resume in the job market, etc.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not sure where to start on this one. It's not that you can't compare USNA to a civilian college -- at some point in the process most of us who attended USNA did so. It's the way you're trying to compare them that doesn't really make sense to me.</p>

<p>Being at a SA is not like choosing between civilian college A and civilian college B. It is an entirely different lifestyle and an entirely different 9+ years of your life. You more or less give up a lot of things that civilian students take for granted -- freedom, driving, dating, clothing of choice, major of choice, career of choice, etc. -- in exchange for the opportunity to become a Navy or USMC officer and lead sailors and Marines. Comparing that to a course of study at UMd isn't really possible. </p>

<p>It is important to evaluate quality of education, etc. -- I don't think there's anything better out there than a SA. However, that alone is not reason to attend because you can receive an excellent education at many civilian schools. To attend a SA, you must want to be in the military, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Because that is your life. </p>

<p>Finally, where do you want "ultimately . . . to end up?" I'm not sure I'd describe USNA as a "more honorable and adventurous route." USNA is a route to being a Navy/USMC officer. If your desire now is to do something other than be an officer, you probably should be headed for a civilian college. And there's nothing wrong with that.</p>

8

<p>"I've heard from some that USNA classes are small, but I've also heard that they can run 25-30."</p>

<p>lollerskates.</p>

9

<p>Class size really depends on the type of class it is and what your major is. Core classes usually run 20-24 (chem, physics, leadership, etc), however, majors classes vary. The more popular majors (eg Poly Sci, History, etc.) usually have a larger class size, primarly because they have to accommodate more people. I am a chem major and my classes are typically very small. I have had maybe 1 or 2 classes that have had near 20. All of the labs are <10 per section. I've even had major classes (not lab) that had less than 10 in them. Regardless of class size, though, you can bet that your teacher will be more than willing to spend one on one time with you if necessary if you run into trouble with the subject matter. Bottom line, unlike my friends at state u, you'll always be a name to the profs instead of just a number in a class of hundreds.</p>

10

<p>Thanks, I'm going to be doing a lot of thinking in the next 6 months.</p>

<p>I got the idea that it's not just a college, it's life, from NASS. However, I liked the life at the academy, the discipline, the integrity, the challenge, and I like the idea of giving back, as I've been given a great deal.</p>

<p>At NASS they really focused on Academy life and not enough on officer life. I'm somewhat clueless here TBH.</p>

11

<p>My observations about a USNA education:</p>

<p>Classroom academics: Strong and as good as a student wants it to be</p>

<p>Cost of computer: $2,500 up front</p>

<p>Loan $$ required to be paid back over 4 years: $6K ($8.5K for '12ers)</p>

<p>Monthly Plebe "income": $50 - $100 net</p>

<p>Value of USNA degree and lifetime relationships: Literally priceless. None could buy these, even if they had the money. </p>

<p>Seriously, my observation is that it's hard to imagine a more valuable baccalaureate experience. When I think about the learning experiences and exposures he's had in one brief year, it stuns me. Especially when I compare it to my other child's $50K/annum cost-benefits. I'm honestly stunned and awed by the USNA opportunity my son's been blessed with.</p>

<p>Good luck and here's that you might be so fortunate to decide well and be invited to be part of this grandest of undergraduate experiences. While once I might have empathized with your genuine question, now I simply offer an understanding smile.</p>

12

<p>Powerhawk, I think you have a good head on your shoulders and are asking the right questions. I ran into a similar problem myself... ultimately I chose USNA because I want to be a Naval Officer. USNA1985 put it very well in his post. If you want to be a Naval Officer, there is no program in the world better than USNA. If you are unsure, maybe join the ROTC detachment if one is offered at UMCP.... if you are there on an academic scholarship there would be no military obligation. Best of luck to you with your decision.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
However, if I received a full ride to UMCP, I would be taking a more direct route to where I am ultimately going to end up. It's such a hard choice to make at this point in my life, would I want to take a more direct route or a more honorable and adventurous route?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>For me this is somewhat of a troubling statement to hear from an applicant. Are you saying that regardless of what happens that you are planning to get out after the minimum commitment?... Let me preface this with saying that there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting out after your commitment. As your initial commitment wraps up, there are dozens of variables that go into a decision about whether or not to stay in the military, not the least of which is as simple as job satisfaction. However, when applying to the Academy, its important that you at least be open to a career in the military.</p>

<p>
[quote]
While I do want to serve and I do feel I fit into the academy lifestyle, it would be illogical for me to devote 5 years of my life when I could be in grad school to the military if there is no significant benefit.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As an aside, if you have an visions of business school in your future, theres not too many better ways to set yourself up than a service academy education followed by 5+ years of leading sailors and marines.</p>

14

<p>Exactly, I don't know what being an officer is like, or what I will be assigned to, so I can't really say whether or not I would want to stay with it or not.</p>

<p>Ultimately, I want to end up as a college professor, and the more I think about it, there is no reason I need to 'rush' to get there.</p>

15

<p>Just make sure you are applying for the right reasons.</p>

16

<p>
[quote]
USNA1985 put it very well in his post

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, HER explanation was well thought out and excellent.</p>

17

<p>Powerhawk - Do you understand who your cadre were at NASS? One month ago they were still plebes, a year ago they were getting ready to report for I-Day, two years ago they were YOU! This was their very first true leadership opportunity that each of them volunteered for. If these newly minted 3C impressed you, can you imagine what they will be like in 3 more years when they graduate? As far as life as an officer, contact your BGO and look at the Navy or Marines as a whole. Where do you see yourself fitting in?</p>

<p>All the SA's are first and formost leadership schools. The academics are among the best (Navy graduated it's 43rd Rhodes Scholar in 2008) The military and physical aspects provide a planned and structured environment to put in practice leadership skills and training over a four year period. It is a high performance and stressfull environment that is definitely not for everyone. In this respect NASS has done it's job for you. It has gotten you to think about what you experienced and helped you formulate plans for your future.</p>

<p>Even if you decide to move forward and apply you are going to run into a very difficult 4 part application process to gain entry. If you fail at or do not complete any of the 4 parts, you will not get in. The process is designed to be difficult because only the cadidates that are strong and have a burning desire to be at a SA make it through.</p>

<p>Wish you the best in your future decisions.</p>

18

<p>It depends on how you want it and how you tick. Choosing to go to an SA is a huge decision. One many people can't make at the ripe age of 17-18-19. It's a scary prospect, frankly. Even for those who have dreamed of it in diapers. So look hard at your opportunities.</p>

<p>And keep in mind, the Navy commissions officers from the NROTC program, and many colleges offer the program, which tells you that you can succeed in any path you take as long as you grab the opportunity as it arises and make the most and the best of it.</p>

<p>Wherever you end up, put a smile on and make the best of it. Hopefully, in the end you'll find you're in the right place for the right reasons.</p>

19

<p>Sorry about that USNA1985, poor assumption on my part maam.</p>

20

<p>Take it from me as someone who applied, came, and stayed for the wrong reasons. Unless your goal in life is to become a naval or Marine officer---and even if it is---the cost to your quality of life is pretty high, and the "leadership and discipline" are more often than not disappointing. Being here while suspecting or knowing you don't belong here is one of the worst feelings in the world.</p>

<p>Just remember this: no matter what anyone says or implies, choosing not to come or stay here does NOT reflect poorly on you.</p>