@wykehamist By far the coaches that have expressed the most interest r the ones who were/are coxswains. Especially the D3 ones, however those schools she found to be too small. So far DD has been admitted to one D1 OOS school where the coach and her had build a relationship. However the $$ which came from merit aid is small. Also a couple non privates that don’t offer crew, have given her 25k+ scholarships to attend. Seems like she should of been a Mathlete instead of an Athlete in HS, lol…just kidding.
Some random notes as we head into CRASH-B weekend:
- Heard that a top prospect had a likely letter in hand from a top school, who thought the prospect had committed to them. The prospect decided to go on an official visit to another school anyway. LL school heard about that visit, and pulled the letter. Don't want to be more specific, to protect those involved, but I am curious if anyone has heard of similar situations.
- DS reports that one of his friends had started an email conversation with the recruiting assistant at one of the Ivies, then made the mistake of sending a message addressed to "Dear Coach ______" - using the last name of another Ivy coach. Friend hasn't heard from that coach since.
- One coach made a similar mistake - sent DS a personalized message, as part of an ongoing email conversation, but used someone else's first name in the salutation. Do we care? Of course not.
Seems sloppy to me. Everyone has that moment to double check who is receiving email before you hit the send button.
As to student who acted fast and furious with other offers…“oh well”…in my book you make a commitment to a school
the deal is done. Maybe I’m a bit old fashioned that way 
Is there always a commitment made before a Likely Letter? I’ve read of people getting several, so it seems to me that the student has the right to continue looking until committed to the school and until the school commits to him. The Ivies made the rules, they decided not to have NLI and the ability to commit in Nov, they have to live with that situation. Seems petty to me for the coach to get mad and not return calls and emails.
Cornell has the synopsis of how commitment at the Ivies works here:
http://admissions.cornell.edu/apply/candidates-common-ivy-league-admission-procedure
However, at least in my kids’ experience (they collectively had offers from 5 of the 7 Ivies), the schools required a commitment before guaranteeing a spot. That is, they knew where else my sons were goign on OVs and asked for a commitment to just their school before sending in the letter to admissions that led to the early evaluation/likely letter. I think in their situation, if they had lied to the coach, the coach would have rescinded the offer, inasmuch as it was in theiir power to do so, since likelies come for admissions.
So while it was technically possible for my sons to receive more than one likely, it wasn’t possible in terms of the recruiting process itself.
I could see how this might work differently for student-athletes recruited later in the process who might already have applied to more than one school before the thumbs up came from the coach.
Thank you both @twoinanddone and @classicalmama Between the two of you, you’ve presented an excellent picture both of how the rules are written, and how they work in practice.
This should be a cautionary tale to future years of students. If they coach says he or she “needs to know if you are committed” to their school in connection with a pre-read, so they “can get you that likely letter,” listen carefully to what they are saying. If it sounds like they are asking you to commit to their school before they give you the LL, they probably are - and it behooves you to ask them if that is, in fact, the case.
If you’re not certain you’re ready to commit, tell them that - quickly. Ideally, you can also tell that what you need to know before you decide. If the coach is asking you to commit over the summer, before your official visit, or even before you’ve had all your OVs, the gist of other parent comments to date is that it’s reasonable to say you want to meet the team and see what a day on campus is like, before you commit to that program.
Bottom line: the coach always wants to get his or her top prospects nailed down as early as possible, once they are identified. That doesn’t mean you have to commit based on their timetable. If they are asking you to commit, it’s fair for you to ask them where you stand with them. If you want them to wait for you, be candid about what else you need to wait for. And thus, from all this, we again see the importance of starting early to talk to coaches, as well as the value of unofficial visits in Spring semester, to develop your list of potential choices, and then focus it down.
I have some other comments based on CRASH-Bs this weekend, including some candid comments from a very well-respected coach about the importance of the whole event, but before sharing those, I’m hoping to get some comments from other rowers or parents who were there.
When 2 of my 3 were going through the Ivy recruiting process, it was very clear that accepting more than 1 LL was extremely bad form. It not only reflects on the athlete leading coaches on to believe that they have specifically committed to each one, but also reflects badly on the high school team/program from where they are being recruited.
I’d love to hear the Crash-B comments too! This was my first year not attending as an audience member in a while, and I missed the unique frenzied feel of the hockey rink-turned-ergathon!
@sweepscull what you write makes perfect sense. Before talking more, here are some CRASH-B notes.
Having read so many comments about the cold air, we were relieved it was not quite as bad as advertised. Our club at least had several PRs, contrary to what I had read about how most people don’t PR. But maybe that was just us.
More significantly, in terms of health: a few days later, several guys on the team each seemed to come down with a pretty bad fever. The consensus was that they got it from the ergs, which had not been wiped down at all - including the practice ergs - meaning that lots of germ were being passed around. Sounds like a sponsorship opportunity for Handi-Wipes!
There was no lack of competitive frenzy overall, from novice rowers up to a 95-year old who had the whole place cheering him on as he finished. The live race tracker was also superb, allowing people everywhere to feel directly connected to the racing (and letting you replay any race, to see how your rowers did compared to the field). It was, nevertheless, amusing when the entire feed went out right in the middle of one of the junior heats - rowers’ times, race tracker, everything - leaving the announcers to improvise: "on my right, it looks like they are pushing very hard. . . "
For more details, my apologies as I was only watching the men, not the women. In the Junior open men’s group, Gonzaga sent two very large, incredibly fast guys who came 1 and 2, very close to 6 minutes flat. They set a new standard for future HS rowers. Here’s the scary thing: they are both in 11th grade. Kudos to them.
In the junior lightweight category, the top time just broke 6:20 (6.19.9). In the past dozen years, only two junior light rowers have done that. Several others broke 6:30. So, yes, times are getting faster.
There was also apparently a larger cohort of college rowers than usual, altough Princeton and Harvard had their own in-house regattas around the same time (“Crash-Ps” - obvious, but still very cute). Penn’s lightweight team sent a large contingent, apparently to send a message to the rest of the league. They seem to have succeeded, posting some very fast times. For reasons purportedly having to do with NCAA regs, most college rowers entered as “Unaffiliated”, but the Penn boys ignored that custom and entered under their own team name. Good for them.
Good, also, for the contingent from Brown, which apparently has a tradition of using clever fake names for their entrants. This year it was “Willoughby State Penitentiary”, in honor of Brown’s Freshman coach. Gotta love it. Also have to respect the very fast times these guys posted (all heavies; Brown is the only Ivy with no lightweight team).
Having said all that, let me add a comment that was made to me by one coach. He didn’t know I might publish his comments, so I’ll just say he’s a very well respected coach with a very well-respected program; he has a clear track record of making good rowers into great rowers. What he said wasn’t new - it’s been repeated in this thread, and elsewhere - but it was surprising to hear him say it at the event, so bluntly:
“This is fun and all, but I have to tell you, people put too much emphasis on erg scores. It’s nice to have a low erg score, but really what we care about is how fast a guy is on the water.” In terms of getting recruited, he suggested it was better for kids to work to score a few points higher on their SATs or ACTs than to shave a second or two off their erg times.
He was sympathetic to my response - that SAT scores are to academic ability as erg scores are to true rowing ability - but his point was that he and his colleagues are comfortable they can look beyond erg scores, to gauge potential boat speed and determine who they want to recruit. By contrast, the admissions office may end up making decisions based on whether a kid whose SAT is 10 or 20 points higher than another kid who was, otherwise, identical.
So, for those of you who love to row but don’t love to erg, don’t be disheartened - but do look for chances to really show what you can do on the water, and don’t stint on preparing for your SATs or ACTs.
Also, bear in mind that several coaches seem to really care about “weight-adjusted” erg scores, so don’t be disheartened if you’re not pulling 6:01 while weighing 230 pounds. There will always be a debate about how much to ‘adjust’ erg sores for weight, but the bottom line is, again, show the coach that you can actually move a boat.
That comment is a good transition to the spring racing season, already under way on the West Coast, and soon to start in the East. It also prompts a question, regarding showing coaches you can move a boat. The background is this; So far every coach we have talked to has said they are especially interested in seeing results from doubles and pairs, as well as singles (i.e., 2x, 2-, and 1x).
The question is this: if coaches are as focused on the small boats as they say, are boarding school rowers - who typically only race in either a 4+ or 8+, in one race, and typically only in the Spring - at something of a disadvantage compared to their club and day school colleagues, who often compete in multiple boats (including at least one small boat, in addition to a 4x, 4+, or 8+) at weekend-long regattas that take place year-round?
I know there continues to be a steady stream of rowers from boarding schools to various top rowing programs, from Washington’s longtime stroke, a Kent alum, to Benji Cohen moving from Exeter to Harvard this year. Still, I’m curious to hear any comments from boarding school rowers now in college, or going through the application process. Do you feel you were at a disadvantage, or were you able to be evaluated in depth?
I’ve enjoyed reading your Crash B observations! The well-known “ergs don’t float” line definitely applies here, to what the coach you spoke to was saying. From what I’ve observed, I would agree that is the general philosophy. Low erg scores are impressive and exciting, but don’t necessarily translate. The current Rowing Magazine has an article about how, as the widespread popularity of this sport grows, erg scores are getting lower and lower, with new world records being set frequently. When looking at Open Men/Women Crash B results, & in the 30+ group, it is important to remember that the Sr. Nat’l Team athletes do not participate as they are at the Olympic Training Center in Chula Vista, CA for winter training during Crash B’s. I think it can be safely assumed that many of them would handily take the top spots in those age classes, setting new standards to beat in the open classes.
I wanted to respond to your prep school rowing question as all 3 of mine were boarding school rowers, and had no sculling experience when being recruited to college. This did not seem to affect them at all as they were viewed as to how they performed with what experience they had, and in relationship to the strength of the school teams they were on. I also firmly believe that many coaches recruit on potential, and what level they believe they can coach each athlete to reach. Seasoned coaches have a realistic vision honed through years of experience, I think. An example of developing potential is my oldest’s erg score dropping 35 seconds in a 3 year period - we couldn’t have imagined that happening, but the highly regarded, extremely experienced college coach didn’t bat an eye as the coach had envisioned that happening all along.
@sweepscull you are quite right; it’s all about demonstrating potential. Erg scores are just part of that picture, as are small boats results.
The Rowing Magazine article you reference about erg records is very enlightening - somewhat reassuring. It was also very interesting to read the cover story about Kerber’s success with the Cornell lightweights. As DS has started his unofficial visits, It has been fascinating to see the very real differences in training philosophies from team to team, not to mention coaching styles. It all underscores the importance of finding out as much as you can about each specific program you are interested in, and talking to the coaches one-on-one about their approach to training and team-building.
I agree that ergs don’t float boats…but I do think that erg scores matter. When my second son was being recruited, his erg scores were steadilydecreasing, and his older brother would pinpoint for him with surprising accuracy, which coaches would be interested in him solely based on his scores. And once you’re on a team, erg scores continue to play a big part in boat placement. It stands to reason that coaches–when faced with many talented recruits or a boathouse full of elite athletes, will rely (perhaps a bit too heavily) on the measure that’s easiest to quantify and compare. And erg scores are also a good way to demonstrate potential. I agree that ideally, they are just a piece of the picture–but if the experience of my two rowers are any indication, they have more effect, both positive and negative, than you might think.
So my son is heading to Georgetown next year. He has rowed lightweight for 4 years but is in no way a recruit. However he interested in walking on. Any suggestions? Should he email the coach now just to introduce himself, and ask to be informed about fall tryouts? Should he ask for a meeting to come say hi sometime this summer? We’re only an hour from campus, so that wouldn’t be a problem. I’m just curious if there’s anything he can do now (other than have a great senior season, of course) that will increase his chances of walking on successfully in the fall.
At Yale, the coaches send the team out during freshman move-in specifically to recruit walk-ons. I’m pretty sure the coach would be happy to get an email from a kid who’s already admitted and interested in joining the team. I think he should just send some of the basics about himself as a rower and ask the coach about walking on in the fall. There may not be try-outs at all–competition for seats on boats, obviously, but coaches love having guys in the wings, keeping the recruited athletes on their toes. And every coach has a story of the guy who walked on the team and ended up rowing on V1.
@baltimoreguy
Congrats on your son’s placement at Georgetown! As @classicalmama has stated any coach would welcome a walk on especially one with extensive experience. He should certainly reach out to the coach via email although with this being racing season it may take awhile to get reply.
Congrats again!
Thank you all for the wonderful information relayed on this Forum. Just came back from several Unofficial Visits to D1 rowing programs over my daughter’s Spring Break. My daughter is a coxswain for a great HS rowing program and both schools invited her out to attend their practices and go on personalized campus tours, meet the team, meet with Academic Advisors, and tour of the athletic facilities.
Coach 1 introduced my daughter as “the coxswain for the 2017 team” to the rowers which was nice and wrote to my my daughter saying that their program expects to hear a verbal commitment by mid-September before they work on admissions. There was no mention of any scholarship/assistance that would be provided.
Coach 2 was great in explaining how much assistance my daughter would receive by that school and that they would make their coxswain decisions by mid-June and hinted that we should be ready to decide by then. Coach 2 said if we don’t say, “Yes”, Coach 2 would go down to the other coxswains on the list until they all commit.
Is Coach 2 also asking for a verbal commitment by mid-June or is this a harder commit?
Should we go back to the first coach and ask what kind of scholarship would be expected if my daughter gives her verbal?
Our thinking is that if Coach 1 comes back with a better offer than Coach 2, we can at least give Coach 2 some kind of solid feedback.
If my daughter receives a partial scholarship from Coach 1, would she also be entitled to other Merit Scholarships to help cover the rest of the tuition and room/board?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
Hello all,
While I am not a class of 2017 rowing recruit, I would like to ask if any of you have experience in the rowing recruitment process to take a look at my post and see if you could answer any of my questions? Thanks:) http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/athletic-recruits/1878745-please-help-novice-rower-with-recruitment-process.html#latest
Any commitment from a coach or a student is verbal only, and cannot be binding until the NLI is signed in Nov. Many feel an obligation to honor commitments, but it is not binding. The June commitment is no more binding than the Sept one, but be careful of not being honest with the coaches as it is a small community and word will get around. There is a huge amount of trust needed on both sides.
If you accept athletic money, you can accept money offered by the school to other similarly qualified students, so merit aid, department scholarships, legacy or sibling scholarships. You can also accept any federal or state need based financial aid such as Pell, SEOG, subsidized Stafford loans, state grants, Bright Futures/Hope type scholarships. What you cannot accept is need based aid from the institution. If the student is lucky enough to be at a D1 school that gives a stipend, she might get the same percentage of the scholarship as a stipend (for example, a 25% scholarship might also be a 25% stipend.)
I’d go back to both coaches and ask exactly what the coach is offering and who at the school you could talk to about other scholarships and aid that might be available (if you need it). You can ask for a ‘financial pre-read’. The NPC may be helpful too to calculate merit scholarships based on stats.
@makamo7
Kiddo says subtract 1 minute for women…although, and I quote, “there is much more interest for women” so that erg will garner more leverage at collegiate programs. Good luck!
And I’d like to add that there were many at SDCC who had crazy great erg scores that DID NOT TRANSFERE to the water. Boat feel will always trump erg scores, so always pay attention to both.
@tonymom Thanks, what erg time would 1 minute subtracted be for? Also, should I wait until junior year, when I have more to show for, to fill out the college questionnaires?