The schools you wished you considered

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Besides the fact that I'm having a relatively unproductive summer, one of the reasons I think I hang out on these forums so much is first, because I am so happy with the school I attend that I want to help other people be as happy with the schools that they attend as they are with the school that I attend, and second, because I think I went through the entire college process quite misinformed.</p>

<p>When I was a high school senior, my college list was the following:</p>

<p>University of Chicago (EA)-- got in, didn't apply elsewere
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Northwestern
Hopkins
Tufts
Cornell
SUNY-Binghamton (in-state safety)</p>

<p>If I were to apply now, knowing what I know about myself, my list would be the following:</p>

<p>University of Chicago
Tufts
Reed
Swarthmore
Bryn Mawr
Oberlin
Wesleyan
SUNY-Binghamton</p>

<p>Notice that my first list had FOUR ivies; if I were to apply to colleges again, my list would have ZERO. It's not intentional that I avoided Ivy Leagues, but upon reflection, none of the schools in the crazy 8 really speak to my academic, social, and career goals, and the simple answer is that there are other schools that catered more closely towards what I wanted.</p>

<p>I have to give props to Tufts for being a beautiful school next to a gorgeous city and having a comfortable undergraduate size. I also think that it would be a good "normal" school on my list if I revisited all of the schools on my list and decided that they were all too weird for me.</p>

<p>Reed is a often compared to Chicago for its general nerdiness and its emphasis on the classical tradition. Reed, along with Swarthmore, Oberlin, and Bryn Mawr kicks Chicago's arse when it comes to producing future PhD's. The PhD productivity ranks, IMO, are one of the best indicators of intellectual and academic life on campus. As somebody who dreams about attending grad school, the PhD rankings are my version of the WSJ feeder scores. I also think it says A LOT that schools with considerably HIGHER admit rates and LOWER SAT midranges produce a higher percentage of PhD candidates than the Ivies. Though a PhD might not be everybody's cup of tea, I think it speaks a lot for the academic motivation of the undergraduates who attend the various institutions that are high on the list, as it also says a lot about how institutions esteem each other and the quality of education one receives. If you go to Bryn Mawr or Oberlin, the rigor of your undergraduate work will be respected by those in the know. If you graduate from Penn, Cornell, or Brown, the chance that you want a PhD is slim to begin with.</p>

<p>Wesleyan is on the list simply because I think it's a great school and because ever undergrad I know there is sparklingly smart. I think the attention that the school pays to the arts would be beneficial to somebody like me, who moonlights as an artist, and I think that the serious yet laid-back nature of the school would do me well.</p>

<p>Am I the only one who regrets not considering my college options more carefully?</p>

2

<p>you forgot to talk about bing</p>

3

<p>First, I think this is a good idea for a thread. I think college students can help those of us who are looking different aspects of a university while within our safety bubbles. For the most part, we judge a college based on what’s written on a piece of paper or what we think we want. </p>

<p>Why did you take some of those schools off of your list (you already mentioned Ivies, but what about Johns Hopkins and Northwestern?)</p>

<p>Also, when you say you were misinformed about the college process do you mean about yourself and what you were really looking for in a school or about the process itself?</p>

<p>Where might one find “PhD productivity” for schools. It sounds like another interesting way to compare schools. Would it be listed on their website somewhere?</p>

<p>PS.
I love your posts, unalove, because they are clear and precise and most of the time, objective. (No one is 100%)</p>

4

<p>hehe, okay, I will.</p>

<p>SUNY-Binghamton was my in-state safety, and yeah, I figured the best part about it was that it was cheap. I actually had a great college visit, though, in which I saw a few people I knew totally randomly, and they took me inside the dorms so I could see them and their friends doing their thing. What I really came to like about Bing was that it felt totally comfortable-- guys and girls walked around with sweatpants on, minimal makeup… and unlike the state-school stereotype of party-all-the-time, the Bing students I met up with were smart, responsible, and fun-loving. Plus, the a cappella and improv comedy show I went to was a lot of fun-- Bing had a load of talented and funny kids. Though it was my safety, and it did have some downsides (really lame surroundings, cold winters, not much campus cohesion or pride), I would still go there in a heartbeat. It also helped that two of the most intellectual people I know went there and found endless ways to challenge themselves. I think my experiences with Bing speak well for state schools across the board… the financial appeal means that no matter what, you’ll find bright kids who wanted to go to college on the cheap.</p>

5

<p>Although I typically don’t agree with rankings, I’m actually interested in taking a look a PhD productivity. I’m going to second pooz’s question: where do you find this info?</p>

6

<p>First, PhD productivity (I have yet to find clear data where it separates schools by subject, but for my considerations, overall PhD productivity was most important):</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/baccorsum1995-2004.pdf[/url]”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/baccorsum1995-2004.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And something I didn’t notice earlier, perhaps in my counter-Ivy swagger: Chicago sends 15% of its undergrads on to earn PhDs, Yale and Princeton send 14.4%. I don’t know enough about statistical analysis to ascertain how significant this difference is, but I do know that because Y and P have larger undergraduate populations, they are sending more students on to PhD programs each year than Chicago is. At the same time, though, numbers don’t mean everything, and just the way I disregarded Grinnell and Carleton, two other excellent schools IMO, on issues of fit, I really don’t see myself as a Yale or Princeton kid, and there was a reason I didn’t apply when I had the chance. In short, I saw a Yalie and a Princetonian as somebody who seemed by all appearances to be normal and just so happened to be ridiculously smart. I wanted to go to a school where academics were more openly discussed and celebrated rather than have them be just one not-as-significant feature of college. Whether this characterization is true or not is another story, but it’s at least how I felt. It also didn’t help that both schools’ reputations were soured for me when I saw the kinds of students from my high school who were going.</p>

<p>I also think Hopkins and NU are great schools, but even better options (and, in some cases I think, preferable options) for somebody looking at predominantly Ivy League schools. Though Hopkins did have an appeal to me (sweatshirts abound, cool kids, a fun application question, a city, good academics, and a totally droolworthy creative writing program) the pre-meddiness of Hopkins would have driven me insane. I didn’t want to be surrounded by students who wanted nothing more than admission to med school, who quibbled over grades, and who had no other intellectual interests. (Again, the pre-med strereotype: we can argue over how true it actually is).</p>

<p>Northwestern is another fine school, though almost anybody will tell you that there’s a complete Northwestern/Chicago dichotomy, and falling in love with one means you won’t like the other. Northwestern was TOO APPEALING, and I didn’t feel like there was a place for me, there, your resident quiet, bookish, nerdy girl who doesn’t play normal all that well. I do think that Northwestern is a perfect school, a school that should have the stature and reputation of Penn/Columbia, but is plagued by its midwestern location.</p>

<p>And when I say the college process, I really mean the self-searching process. Even until my first year of college, I had tried desperately to fit in with other people, to fit in in class, to be “normal” in school, and to otherwise forget that I only had a handful of real friends, and even fewer if I discounted teachers. I was also not really a superstar student gradewise nor was I an exceptionally high tester, but I just loved being in school and doing academics. For me, then, the most important feature of a school should have been the academic intensity and experience. I was also attracted to schools where students didn’t impose on each other in terms of what was socially acceptable and what wasn’t, and I wanted a place where being somewhat out of the range of "“normal” was tolerated.</p>

<p>(I play up the “not normal” thing a bit, but I think it’s an important part of who I am. Though I do small-talk and socializing just fine and I look and dress like anybody else you might meet, I had never really felt “at home” or “connected” to others until I went to Chicago, upon which I made lots of friends very quickly).</p>

7

<p>As a senior in high school, I applied to several different types of universities. I applied to small liberal arts colleges, as well as to research universities. My list was a strange mix that included the likes of: Bowdoin, Wake Forest, Notre Dame, and UChicago</p>

<p>I wish I would have applied to: University of Dallas, Wheaton College (IL), Northwestern, and UChicago and ND (still).</p>

<p>I also wish I would have had a 4.0/1600 so I could have applied to Harvard and actually have had a shot. Eh, I don’t think my reflections are really in the spirit of this thread.</p>

8

<p>I don’t think there’s a certain school that I wish I applied to, just as a general statement I wish that I applied to more schools that were affordable. I applied to 7 schools and when it came to decision time I had 1 affordable option (a safety school that didn’t offer my major) and 3 options where I would be graduating with a reasonable amount of debt (3 schools that all had my major).</p>

9

<p>In high school I wish I would have considered:</p>

<p>Dartmouth
Amherst
Penn
Williams
Georgetown
Middlebury
Stanford
Vassar</p>

10

<p>Claremont Mckenna is the first example to come to mind. I really only started reading about it after I selected my college, and decided that I should transfer. As of now, it is the only school I intend to send a transfer app to, as the school fits me perfectly in terms of the liberal arts structure, consortium resources, top-notch economics program, conservative sympathies, and solid reputation in the business and legal world. Even the motto is brilliant. Others I wish I’d applied to:</p>

<p>Washington & Lee
Wake Forest
Northwestern
Carnegie Mellon</p>

11

<p>I have no regrets :)</p>

12

<p>Add: UIUC, Berkeley, Geoegia Tech, Cornell, JHU
Cross out: Wash U, Duke, Caltech</p>

13

<p>Here is the top 200 for the most recent 10 year period:</p>

<p>Academic field: ALL </p>

<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees: ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database
Number of Undergraduates: ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database
Percentage of graduates receiving a doctorate degree. </p>

<p>Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period
Note: Includes all NSF doctoral degrees inc. PhD, Divinity, etc., but not M.D. or Law."</p>

<p>1 California Institute of Technology 35.8%
2 Harvey Mudd College 24.7%
3 Swarthmore College 21.1%
4 Reed College 19.9%
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 18.3%
6 Carleton College 16.8%
7 Bryn Mawr College 15.8%
8 Oberlin College 15.7%
9 University of Chicago 15.3%
10 Yale University 14.5%
11 Princeton University 14.3%
12 Harvard University 14.3%
13 Grinnell College 14.1%
14 Haverford College 13.8%
15 Pomona College 13.8%
16 Rice University 13.1%
17 Williams College 12.7%
18 Amherst College 12.4%
19 Stanford University 11.4%
20 Kalamazoo College 11.3%
21 Wesleyan University 11.0%
22 St John’s College (both campus) 10.6%
23 Brown University 10.6%
24 Wellesley College 10.4%
25 Earlham College 10.0%
26 Beloit College 9.6%
27 Lawrence University 9.5%
28 Macalester College 9.3%
29 Cornell University, All Campuses 9.0%
30 Bowdoin College 9.0%
31 Mount Holyoke College 8.9%
32 Smith College 8.9%
33 Vassar College 8.8%
34 Case Western Reserve University 8.7%
35 Johns Hopkins University 8.7%
36 St Olaf College 8.7%
37 Hendrix College 8.7%
38 Hampshire College 8.6%
39 Trinity University 8.5%
40 Knox College 8.5%
41 Duke University 8.5%
42 Occidental College 8.4%
43 University of Rochester 8.3%
44 College of Wooster 8.3%
45 Barnard College 8.3%
46 Bennington College 8.2%
47 Columbia University in the City of New York 8.1%
48 Whitman College 8.0%
49 University of California-Berkeley 7.9%
50 College of William and Mary 7.9%</p>

<p>51 Carnegie Mellon University 7.8%
52 New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology 7.8%
53 Brandeis University 7.7%
54 Dartmouth College 7.6%
55 Wabash College 7.5%
56 Bates College 7.5%
57 Davidson College 7.5%
58 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 7.2%
59 Franklin and Marshall College 7.2%
60 Fisk University 7.1%
61 Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL) 7.1%
62 University of California-San Francisco 6.8%
63 Allegheny College 6.8%
64 Furman University 6.6%
65 University of Pennsylvania 6.5%
66 Washington University 6.5%
67 Bard College 6.5%
68 Northwestern Univ 6.4%
69 Rhodes College 6.4%
70 Agnes Scott College 6.3%
71 Spelman College 6.3%
72 Antioch University, All Campuses 6.2%
73 Kenyon College 6.2%
74 University of Dallas 6.2%
75 Ripon College 6.1%
76 Colorado College 6.1%
77 Bethel College (North Newton, KS) 6.1%
78 Hamilton College 6.0%
79 Goshen College 6.0%
80 Middlebury College 6.0%
81 Erskine College 6.0%
82 University of the South 5.9%
83 University of Michigan at Ann Arbor 5.8%
84 Drew University 5.8%
85 Wake Forest University 5.8%
86 Tougaloo College 5.8%
87 Goucher College 5.8%
88 Chatham College 5.7%
89 Cooper Union 5.7%
90 Alfred University, Main Campus 5.7%
91 Tufts University 5.7%
92 University of California-Santa Cruz 5.6%
93 Colgate University 5.6%
94 Colby College 5.5%
95 Bucknell University 5.4%
96 Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology 5.4%
97 Concordia Teachers College 5.4%
98 University of Virginia, Main Campus 5.4%
99 Sarah Lawrence College 5.3%
100 Southwestern University 5.3%</p>

<p>101 Centre College 5.3%
102 University of California-San Diego 5.3%
103 Austin College 5.3%
104 Trinity College (Hartford, CT) 5.2%
105 Scripps College 5.2%
106 Clark University 5.2%
107 Hope College 5.1%
108 University of Notre Dame 5.1%
109 Connecticut College 5.0%
110 Luther College 5.0%
111 College of the Holy Cross 4.9%
112 Ohio Wesleyan University 4.9%
113 Juniata College 4.9%
114 Wittenberg University 4.9%
115 Transylvania University 4.9%
116 Asbury College 4.8%
117 Calvin College 4.8%
118 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 4.8%
119 Colorado School of Mines 4.8%
120 University of California-Davis 4.8%
121 Vanderbilt University 4.7%
122 Berea College 4.7%
123 Randolph-Macon Woman’s College 4.7%
124 Millsaps College 4.7%
125 Union College (Schenectady, NY) 4.7%
126 University of Wisconsin-Madison 4.6%
127 Georgetown University 4.6%
128 St John’s University (Collegeville, MN) 4.6%
129 Hiram College 4.5%
130 Illinois Wesleyan University 4.5%
131 University of PR Rio Piedras Campus 4.5%
132 Augustana College (Sioux Falls, SD) 4.5%
133 Andrews University 4.5%
134 University of California-Los Angeles 4.5%
135 Coe College 4.4%
136 Hanover College 4.4%
137 Worcester Polytechnic Institute 4.4%
138 Benedictine College 4.4%
139 Lafayette College 4.4%
140 Texas Lutheran University 4.4%
141 DePauw University 4.3%
142 Mills College 4.3%
143 Pitzer College 4.3%
144 Cornell College 4.3%
145 Emory University 4.3%
146 Denison University 4.3%
147 Stevens Institute of Technology 4.3%
148 Eckerd College 4.3%
149 Gustavus Adolphus College 4.2%
150 Oklahoma Baptist University 4.2%</p>

<p>151 Augustana College (Rock Island, IL) 4.2%
152 Lewis and Clark College 4.2%
153 Dickinson College 4.1%
154 University of Missouri, Rolla 4.1%
155 Birmingham Southern College 4.1%
156 Ursinus College 4.1%
157 University of Tulsa 4.1%
158 Monmouth College 4.1%
159 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 4.1%
160 Tulane University 4.1%
161 Alma College 4.0%
162 Washington and Lee University 4.0%
163 Ouachita Baptist University 4.0%
164 Georgia Institute of Technology, Main Campus 4.0%
165 Long Island University Southampton Campus 4.0%
166 St Lawrence University 4.0%
167 Lehigh University 4.0%
168 SUNY College of Environmental Sci & Forestry 3.9%
169 Albion College 3.9%
170 Centenary College of Louisiana 3.9%
171 Principia College 3.9%
172 Manchester College 3.9%
173 Union College (Lincoln, NE) 3.8%
174 Gettysburg College 3.8%
175 Chestnut Hill College 3.8%
176 Houghton College 3.8%
177 Spring Hill College 3.8%
178 Lake Forest College 3.8%
179 Wofford College 3.8%
180 University of Minnesota - Twin Cities 3.8%
181 Albertson College 3.7%
182 SUNY at Buffalo 3.7%
183 Willamette University 3.7%
184 Hobart William Smith Colleges 3.7%
185 Hamline University 3.7%
186 University of California-Irvine 3.6%
187 University of Colorado at Boulder 3.6%
188 Walla Walla College 3.6%
189 Hastings College 3.6%
190 Muhlenberg College 3.6%
191 Maryville College 3.6%
192 Westmont College 3.6%
193 Valparaiso University 3.6%
194 Trinity College (Washington, DC) 3.6%
195 Brigham Young University, Main Campus 3.6%
196 University of California-Riverside 3.6%
197 Albright College 3.6%
198 Whitworth College 3.6%
199 Bethany College (Bethany, WV) 3.6%
200 University of Texas at Austin 3.6%</p>

14

<p>list by subject </p>

<p><a href=“http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html[/url]”>http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

15

<p>unalove,</p>

<p>This is a very interesting and possibly very helpful topic and it seems like the responses so far show that some of the high school and societal obsession with prestige-heavy schools was misplaced and that people would have been happier and perfectly satisfied attending a school less in the educational establishment. </p>

<p>Your post does a great service to potential college applicants and reinforces the idea that so many try to stress here-focus on your personal interests and let that drive your decision. Don’t choose a college based on prestige or for a false reason because you think others will think more highly of you as a result. The college list that I favor and your list in the opening post would differ sharply, but the concept and the principle is the same. Know yourself, learn about (and visit if possible) a number of different schools, make your own judgments, and then trust your decision for you and not for the opinions of others. </p>

<p>For me, I encourage students to think about the entire undergraduate experience of academic, social and athletic life and that leads me to schools like Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Notre Dame. But the reality is that, regardless of your personal preferences, there are many, many excellent colleges around the country that can offer a terrific undergraduate experience. And the best individual choice will often be a school that is lower on the prestige-among-academicians pole.</p>

16

<p>Great thread, unalove! As a current college junior, my personality has changed a ton since since I first looked at college.</p>

<p>In high school, I DID consider:</p>

<p>Pitt (currently attending)
Arizona (in-state)
Arizona State (in-state)
Penn State
Texas
Notre Dame
USC
Virginia
UNC
Maryland</p>

<p>I WISH I would have considered:</p>

<p>Pitt
Arizona
Georgetown
Rutgers
Penn
NYU
Maryland
Boston U</p>

17

<p>unalove,</p>

<p>I have to say, after having read your posts in the past, I wish I had considered Chicago in my senior year.</p>

<p>Now that I look back, it’s actually very sad that my college list back when I had applied was heavily reliant on prestige and department rankings that I failed to consider things like atmosphere and fit. At any rate, I think people quickly grow out of the prestige obsessed stage. Not that I am disappointed with the school I’ll be attending (haven’t even gone there just yet), but now I wish I had considered a few more LACs and Chicago, in particular.</p>

<p>Oddly, I always perceived Chicago as the opposite of liberal thinking. This probably would have been due to the fact that all I knew Chicago for was its econ department and seeing as how econ is so often perceived as either a predominantly math-related social science or a pre-business major, I assumed Chicago would be a school geared towards mathematics, science and preprofessionalism (quite the contrary, now I’ve learned).</p>

<p>Anyway, Tufts is one of the very few schools I would keep on my list. I’d probably cross out the state schools like Cal and U of M.</p>

18

<p>Unalove…I have just re-read your post 6…just keep it, your feelings and thinking have you on track for a wonderful, successful and happy life….you are do just fine …keep it up and best of luck</p>

19

<p>I like this thread. I was also very, very happy at my college, but I think I got pretty lucky given how misguided my search and application processes were (not for lack of effort or support…just, really, for lack of knowing myself and what I wanted out of college). I applied to 11 schools: 9 in California, 2 LACs, 4 UCs, 1 women’s college, 1 religious.</p>

<p>Things I wish I’d known or done differently:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Felt more comfortable looking away from home. Originally, all of my interests had been in the midwest and on the east coast, but I chickened out (and thus closed my mind to a lot of really great options). Just a note: One of my close friends had the opposite experience (applied almost all east coast, changed her mind at the last minute and went with her only in-state option). I think that a good policy is to figure out what you want and base your list around those preferences, but also try to leave yourself a little bit of room for changing your preferences.</p></li>
<li><p>Known more about LACs (not just their names, but what makes a school a LAC, how it differs from a university, and why I REALLY should have been focusing my attention on them).</p></li>
<li><p>Refused to apply anywhere just because “it made sense.” I wasted time, energy, and money on at least 4 applications that were just…pointless. Two were UCs, two were mega-reaches (one to please my counselor, one to please my family).</p></li>
<li><p>Understood the concept of safety schools better. Like so many CA students, I just applied to a few mid-level UCs (UCSD and UCD) because they were close, good, and cheap. But they didn’t fit–at all–what I wanted in a school. I had no idea how to begin searching for a school that would fit my preferences (small, personal, flexible) and almost certainly accept me (with merit aid, to boot). </p></li>
<li><p>Been better organized and less short-sighted. It’s so, so, SO difficult to really delve into this process while you’re also trying to stay afloat your senior year. I wish I’d gotten a better jump-start over the summer so that I didn’t burnout/rush at such inopportune times. I think that I skipped even considering a lot of schools because I had a decent list and I wanted to be done with things.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Schools I wish I’d thought/known more about: Barnard, NYU Gallatin, Bryn Mawr, Wellesley, Northwestern, east coast LACs in general (I’m still pretty oblivious).</p>

<p>Schools I wish I hadn’t bothered with: UCSD, UCLA, Stanford, MIT (all great schools, but I relied totally on the “should” factor for all four).</p>

<p>Like I said, my experience (Scripps) was absolutely wonderful. I have no regrets at all. But in some ways, I wish I had arrived there by a more practical process, and a little less by sheer luck :p</p>

20

<p>Penn, NYU, Northwestern, Rochester and Vandy. </p>

<p>Applying to Brandeis and Cornell was a waste of time, I would have hated it.</p>